justin

Thanks for the suggestion Ray. Can't really justify £70 for what I'm after, though it does look an interesting book. Anyone out there with a copy who would be willing to look in it for me?

I have recently put a picture up on Flickr from a purchased negative of an 08 at Swindon during overhaul. In the corner of the picture are the frames of one of the VoR 2-6-2T locos. I remember seeing at least one at Swindon during a visit there and I wondered if there is any source for overhaul dates for these locos at Swindon after standard gauge overhauls finished.

Two photos from my Flickr feed of Cadbury's wagons at Bournville, one a CR diagram 67 van

Ontrackplant has a list of some vehicles given PWM numbers. Most of what they list is Wickham trolleys. Available at https://www.ontrackplant.com/ but I think to access the list you might need to join. I just typed in PWM to locate them in the list.

Track Machines by Roger Butcher published by Platform 5 in 1984 also lists the PWM numbers of various tampers and on track plant.

Do you have specific vehicles or types of machine that you want to know about?

I have fairly recently purchased two books which maybe of interest to others. Both are by Glyn Thomas and edited by Julian Rainbow and are soft bound.

The first  is Indian Steam Locomotives in HO Scale (ISBN 978-1-901613-04-9) and the second Indian Rolling Stock in HO scale (ISBN 979-8-218-03652-2)

With Glyn's permission I have attached pictures of the contents.

The loco drawings comprise side and front elevations. They do not include rivet detail but include brake gear, boiler bands, valve gear and boiler fittings. Dimensions on the drawings are given for wheelbase between axles, wheel diameter and overall height. A small number of other dimensions (weight, grate area, cylinder diameter plus others) are provided in a separate table on each drawing.

The Rolling Stock drawings have rivet detail, panelling and seem to me slightly more detailed than the loco drawings. There are side and end elevations for all the rolling stock with internal plan views as well for the coaching stock. Dimensions on the drawings are given for wheelbase between axles, bogie centres and wheel diameter.

The Locomotive book is available from the British Overseas Historical Railway Trust http://borht.org.uk/booksetc.htm

The Rolling Stock Book can be bought on ebay or  you can contact Glyn direct at glynthomas42@gmail.com (this email address is in the public domain). He can sell the book cheaper direct than through ebay.

Whether I get round to modelling Indian Railways as a result is still open to debate but these represent a great resource as I have always found there is an absolute dearth of information and drawings on Indian railway equipment

On 12/11/2022 at 21:10, Wheatley said:

Some of the Std 4MT 2-6-0s were similarly oddly lined out. I wonder if it was a quirk of one particular works 

It was a variation applied by the London Midland and Scottish regions from the late 1950s. By shortening the length of the lining it allowed for the second style BR logo to be centralised within the panel area while avoiding as many rivet heads as possible. Information from British Railways, Standard Steam Locomotives volume 2 p175 by the RCTS

On 10/11/2022 at 19:16, pH said:

I didn’t realize the versions were so different. I’ve seen the ScR version described as a ‘bedstead’.

Though the LMR version applied to Fowler 3500 gallon tenders was similar visually to the WR version, the LMR also had a bedstead for some of the Ivatt 3500 gallon tenders fitted to class 4  2-6-0 no. 43000-43161. According to  John Jennison  in LMS Preview No. 3 the drawings described these as a protection device and he says they were probably introduced for working under overhead electrified lines with fitting starting in 1961. Only 20 tenders were fitted. Looking at the locomotive allocation history most of the locos with this type of guard were at Saltley, Wellingborough or Nuneaton in the early 1960s though there were other locos of this class at these sheds in the same period which weren't fitted with it.

Has anyone seen any official information on the installation of the metal frame fitted to GWR tenders and LMS Fowler 3500 gallon tenders to remind staff about the overhead wires (and did it have an official name?) Picture below of one on a Churchward tender at Barry

https://www.flickr.com/photos/155601626@N07/52484564265/in/photolist-2nXT7qr 

A few questions that I would be interested to have answers to (speculation is also fine but could you make it clear that is what it is)

Was it to remind staff about standing up on the tenders or to discourage them from waving fireirons around?

When did fitting start and what depots were involved as I get the impression it was targeted at locos that might find themselves under the wires rather than a blanket introduction

Were they fitted at depots or works

The only colour photos I have seen are of Shrewsbury based GWR Manor class locos. On these it was painted red. Were they always painted this colour

I have just uploaded some pictures to Flickr of items relating to a water column photographed at Bangor station in North Wales in 2021. Based on the design of the grid and control valve access can anyone suggest if this was a LNWR, LMS or BR design? There are additional pictures in my Flickr account of the structures if you click on the embedded link to go to my account.

Information on locos working the Dursley branch from the late 1950s onwards is given in Gloucester Locomotive Sheds: Horton Road Barnwood by Steve Bartlett published by Pen and Sword in 2018. The information given is limited, but it does give the summer 1962 loco diagram when it was a LMS Ivatt class 2 2-6-0 duty as well as describing which panniers were regularly used from 1957 when the Midland locos were replaced.

Justin Edwards 

Bristol

For a good range of colour pictures in the 1960s I would recommend 

Gloucester Midland Lines Part 3 : South by Neil Parkhouse published by Lightmoor Press

The Historical Survey of the Midland in Gloucestershire is also good with basic scale track diagrams 

Oakwood published a book on the Dursley Branch but I think it is a very thin book so I'm not sure how much information is in it

Justin Edwards

Bristol

To answer my own question - they have both gone. WRONG! There were three and two have been demolished, see link below. One seems to survive, does anyone know why?

http://www.obrienscs.com/bristol-port/

The video was posted in November 2020 so quite a while back now.

Jeremy, thanks for checking the Mike Horne books. Looks like I'll have to look at the actual Act of Parliament.

Have both the Strachan & Henshaw coal stacker/reclaimers gone from the coal stacking ground at Portbury? I can see from Google Maps that one has been removed (as scrap or for further use elsewhere) but one can still be seen in this view.

Thanks for everyone's help on this. The London Gazette doesn't answer the question I had, the original Act probably will. The information I'm after is whether there was a requirement in the Act for locomotives to be fitted with condensing equipment on this line as there was on the Metropolitan line. If anyone knows the answer (with a reference) I would be very grateful. I know the locos working the District line were fitted with condensing equipment but am interested if this had been forced on them by the Act of Parliament or was just an operational decision. If no one knows the answer then I'll have to have a look at the Act itself.

Does anyone know of an internet source that reproduces the Acts of Parliament that railway companies needed to build a railway? I am particularly interested in the Metropolitan District Railway (which is now just known as the District Line) and the line it built from Earls Court to Mansion House. I can find internet references in Hansard to the Act but not a copy of the final Act.

Clive,

Thanks for that extra information

Justin

Thanks for looking. I specifically need pictures of 330975 and 330978 as I'm trying to untangle some complex preservation history on them. 330975 is on the RHRP tender register

http://www.ten.rhrp.org.uk/tens/TenderInfo.asp?Ref=238

I am confident this is correct but a picture confirming it was previously painted in yellow and black chevrons would be nice (330970 and 330976 also had this livery)

330978 maybe this tender but I am looking for pre preservation views to help identify it

330975

330978

Can anyone point me in the direction of photos of these two LNER Group Standard 4200 gallon tenders converted to Snowploughs. I am ideally looking for pictures from the late 1970s onwards but would be interested in anything anyone could post. I have had a thorough look on the internet and can't find any images. Failing a picture turning up does anyone know the liveries of these two ploughs from the late 1970s onwards?

In your original post is 5323 a typo for 5332? 60033 ran with 5325 April 1948 to May 1954 and 5332 May 1954 to December 1962 when the loco was withdrawn.

Rail-Online has two photos that might help

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p939198651/h2428bcef#h2428bcef Taken in 1958

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p939198651/h29d5318d#h29d5318d Taken in 1961

The 1961 picture is definitely disc wheels and the 1958 picture looks like discs

Tender 5332 is still with us, albeit with a new tank, as it was adapted as the second tender for 4472 Flying Scotsman and eventually passed to Locomotive Services Ltd and has been used with 60019

There was an article on the Dukedogs in Back Track Vol 4 No. 5 but it makes no mention of their use on the St Ives branch, neither does the RCTS Volume 7 locomotive history. I was under the impression that being listed as cleared for a particular route did not imply that a class was used on that route. It just mean't that the paperwork exercise (and possibly a gauging trial?) had been undertaken to permit it to occur. If there were Dukedogs allocated within Cornwall perhaps it was thought wise to tick the box on whether they could be used. 

I am not familiar with the history of the St Ives & Helston branches but on the 1931 GWR route map there are both uncoloured ( I know this predates the Dukedogs). There is a printed instruction on the map 'No engines [in red, blue of yellow colour route availability] may travel on any line or branch not coloured on this map unless special permission has been obtained'. The Dukedogs were yellow route availability so perhaps it relates to this (though my theory probably falls down as the 45XX locos were also yellow and possibly the St Ives branch was later upgraded to yellow) 

16 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Odd that they needed insulated vans for what should have been only short journeys within the docks - BR vehicles being used for anything beyond ( and an increasing proportion of road haulage by that date ).

Though I am not familiar with working practices at the docks items such as chilled meat coming out of refrigerated ships would need to be kept as cool as possible prior to movement to chill stores within the docks and work flows perhaps sometimes meant the transfer wasn't instantaneous. The vans would have offered a temporary store that reduced the warming of these products if movement into the chilled warehouse was delayed by a couple of hours.

The book PLA Railways published in 1952 doesn't unfortunately mention livery but gives the internal wagon fleet totals as:

310 open wagons

38 box vans,

120 flat wagons (it doesn't specify if these are four wheel or bogie)

77 insulated vans

2 glass wagons

1 weed killer wagon

1 break down van

3 brake vans. The book states that the brake vans were kept for use on the high level line at the Royal Victoria Dock

Hex, Thanks for the info. Very helpful

Justin

23 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

They're in red on the diagram above as set GW16.

Thanks, but I was really after what their previous numbers were.