Dapol 08

[MGR Hooper!]

What actual liveries are Dapol producing?

 

The Dapol website says BR Green, BR Blue and BR Black. Whereas eHattons, KMRC etc. are saying BR Green, BR Blue and EWS. Can anyone confirm?

[101]

Perhaps I didn't get my point across. When I preordered two x 08529 back in the year dot, I was doing so on the basis that 08529 was a short hinged dual braked loco so I am diappointed that the loco Dapol are producing is not that but the long hinged version. As I said, and i'm far from an expert, but I believe that very few if any of this batch were ever air braked and most had dissappeared by/during the eighties, meaning it is little use to anyone modelling the last thirty years or so. But as I said in my post what I am saying may be pointless if Dapol are producing the later version as well, though personally I doubt it, at least initially, but I hope I am wrong with that assumption. Does anybody know if they are?

I am not knocking the model as although I have only seen the photos posted here it appears to look very good, and I expect I will end up having one regardless   but I personally think the later version would have been a better one for Dapol to release.

 

 

F-UnitMad in reply to your unhelpful and rather pointless post I am quite aware what "modelling" is and I was happily expecting to change both numbers by MYSELF to the prototype locos I wish to model but if the base model is wrong then I guess there won't be much point. And I was simply trying to say that if Dapol apply 08529 to the long hinged version it willl be a totally fictitious model. As I say I hope I am wrong and they produce the correct version.

 

   

 

[stonetown]

What actual liveries are Dapol producing?

 

The Dapol website says BR Green, BR Blue and BR Black. Whereas eHattons, KMRC etc. are saying BR Green, BR Blue and EWS. Can anyone confirm?

 

The EWS livery was originally planned for the first batch, but later canceled, whereas the BR black one was added. The options shown on Dapols website are the current ones.

Edited December 17, 2015 by stonetown

[MGR Hooper!]

The EWS livery was originally planned for the first batch, but later canceled, whereas the BR black one was added. The options shown on Dapols website are the current ones.

Thanks

[Joseph_Pestell]

The EWS livery was originally planned for the first batch, but later canceled, whereas the BR black one was added. The options shown on Dapols website are the current ones.

 

Have you got a link for that site? The one that comes up on Google does not seem to have been updated for ages and no mention of the 08 at all.

[Kickstart]

But as I said in my post what I am saying may be pointless if Dapol are producing the later version as well, though personally I doubt it, at least initially, but I hope I am wrong with that assumption. Does anybody know if they are?

When I spoke to the bod on the Dapol stand at Warley on Sunday they did say there were body variations being made, including multiple different types of door.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[stonetown]

Have you got a link for that site? The one that comes up on Google does not seem to have been updated for ages and no mention of the 08 at all.

 

Here you go: http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_299_328

[101]

When I spoke to the bod on the Dapol stand at Warley on Sunday they did say there were body variations being made, including multiple different types of door.

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

Thanks Katy  I hope you're right and I've been worrying - and talking rubbish! - for nothing

[hartleymartin]

I could be tempted to make one masquerade as a Victorian Railways F class, although those were actually based on the Class 11 diesel. Superficially they look quite similar. I don't have photos or drawings to compare them.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Shock horror - Perhaps we'll have to change some numbers by OURSELVES

 

 

.... "modelling", I think we used to call it...

Here's an idea J, why dont Dapol produce them without numbers? Me thinks that its this issue (as mentioned before) whereby Dapol want to (believe that they can) appeal to a 'collectors'' market, as with 'OO' (sic) and 'N', and whilst people like myself have made an impulse purchase of the Terrier, some maybe more than one loco, personally I dont think there is the room/budget/intent/ability for people to 'collect' this market segment of loco (ie I must have number 1234 and then 4321 etc). Rather than chisel off pre-applied numbers it would be better for Dapol to leave numbers off and add a transfer sheet of various appropriate numbers (or a. n.other company sells such as with building a kit) for the purchaser to apply. Im sure that with the Terrier and a decent 08 Dapol will sell lots of locos - especially if future Dapol locos dont duplicate others, ie those already made by Ixion et al - yet whether the market will be the same as 'OO' or 'N' in terms of purchasers 'collecting' the loco in various liveries and numbers remains to be seen (I somehow doubt it). Sadly, I have noted that there is a swing towards a self-fulfilling prophecy now, in terms of the actual model-making, by rank and file model-makers, also appearing in the mainstream modelling press, it seems as though an era has passed in that regard (has been forced to pass), which then leaves a bias towards manufacturers and RTR/RTP type products, skills then perish (or are eroded), less write about them (are encouraged/accepted to write about them - so less know of them) and thus the prophecy is almost complete. True we are not there just yet and the likes of Tony Wright still shine illumination to light the true path of model making (at a pragmatic level), yet instant gratification and mass production - bigish business - are starting to reign within the hobby (as in so many other areas of our lives).

 

 

Perhaps I didn't get my point across. When I preordered two x 08529 back in the year dot, I was doing so on the basis that 08529 was a short hinged dual braked loco so I am diappointed that the loco Dapol are producing is not that but the long hinged version. As I said, and i'm far from an expert, but I believe that very few if any of this batch were ever air braked and most had dissappeared by/during the eighties, meaning it is little use to anyone modelling the last thirty years or so. But as I said in my post what I am saying may be pointless if Dapol are producing the later version as well, though personally I doubt it, at least initially, but I hope I am wrong with that assumption. Does anybody know if they are?

I am not knocking the model as although I have only seen the photos posted here it appears to look very good, and I expect I will end up having one regardless   but I personally think the later version would have been a better one for Dapol to release.

 

 

F-UnitMad in reply to your unhelpful and rather pointless post I am quite aware what "modelling" is and I was happily expecting to change both numbers by MYSELF to the prototype locos I wish to model but if the base model is wrong then I guess there won't be much point. And I was simply trying to say that if Dapol apply 08529 to the long hinged version it willl be a totally fictitious model. As I say I hope I am wrong and they produce the correct version.

 

   

 

 

Thanks for the info - I have found it useful. Totally Fictitious models from Dapol eh? Mmm weve seen that before with Dapol's RTR rolling stock too. As I say far better for Dapol to leave the 08s without numbers (Heljan learnt that lesson and use such info appropriately). Dapol have chosen two long lived prototypes in the Terrier and the 08 which means a fair few versions/liveries (thus in theory more sales). In 'OO' and 'N' this has meant a broader potential for sales for Dapol, and in the good old days of Wrenn, whereby a basic model of an 08 would appear, as with various PO wagons, rightly or wrongly in numerous liveries. Is it true to say that certain punters have lapped up the Dapol 7mm RTR wagons (so we are told)? but how much better would it be for the models to be right in the first place? The 08 looks like it will be a good model and with various plug-ins various versions can be manufactured - yet so much better if the numbers are left off (perhaps with as I mention transfers and and a loco history/data sheet included with the model)? Of course this is all a double edged sword, ie with modelling longer lived prototypes there are more detail differences and the possibility for more errors or the bias towards the horrible generic RTR models of the past.

 

I think what you, the trade and the magazines have found frustrating is the lack of info and communications on the 08 et al.

 

ATVB to all,

 

CME

Edited December 19, 2015 by CME and Bottlewasher

[F-UnitMad]

I agree, un-numbered would be the best option, but if Dapol insist on sticking numbers on I don't see it as the end of Civilisation.

As long as they get the wasp stripes done well that'll do me.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I agree, un-numbered would be the best option, but if Dapol insist on sticking numbers on I don't see it as the end of Civilisation.

As long as they get the wasp stripes done well that'll do me.

I agree, yet feel that if Dapol are following that marketing strategy, it could end in tears and none of us want that (for all of the reasons previously discussed ad infinitum). Like you my hope is that the wasp stripes are well applied too as that would be harder to rectify if they are iffy.

[deltic17]

Looking very good, however personally I'm dissappointed that they have chosen the long hinged version, only around around a quarter of the class and none of these i think were air braked?   and most of these I think disappeared relatively early because of this.

I hope they intend ( does anybody know? ) to produce the short hinged version, if they don't then the proposed 08529 they list willl be totally wrong

 

Can someone explain what a long hinged version is please? or short hinged version for that matter?

I am aware of different body styles/covers/recesses along the lower left hand side of 08's but wasn't sure if this was what was being referred too?

I recall Brassworks 08 were labelled as 'late' or 'early'....???

 

RE supplied by Dapol without numbers - I suggested that to them in DapolDave days but was literally shot down as they explained to me nobody bought locos without numbers!!! I did explain things were different in O guage (like Heljan for example!) but they were not having it. I don't know whether Richard W has given it any thought - probably almost too late now. If given the choice I would have preferred an unnumbered version but will no doubt be removing 08529 from mine before applying my own preferred number

 

... so what number series does the current Dapol model cover does anyone know? - it was suggested above that the current set up relates to an earlyish version?

[bescotbeast]

I haven't got an O Gauge layout but I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these, I'm just wondering how I'd explain it to "er indoors" 

 

Simon

[BG John]

I haven't got an O Gauge layout but I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these, I'm just wondering how I'd explain it to "er indoors" 

 

Simon

You'll soon find you have an O gauge layout! You could create something quite suitable in a few square feet for negligible cost.

[bescotbeast]

You'll soon find you have an O gauge layout! You could create something quite suitable in a few square feet for negligible cost.

That's my worry but £169 for a Class 08 I'm thinking this is what my credit card is for 

[BG John]

You can vandalise secondhand Peco OO track and hide it under concrete or paving, and built wagon kits can sometimes be acquired on eBay for not much more than new OO ones if you keep a lookout for them. You only need 5 wagons for a 3-2-2 inglenook, or 8 for the full size 5-3-3. A small baseboard can be knocked up out of stuff you've got lying around, or can get cheaply or free. Scalescenes 4mm buildings print pretty well in 7mm scale too. You could build an entire layout and buy all the stock for less than the price of the loco!

[cheesysmith]

Can someone explain what a long hinged version is please? or short hinged version for that matter?

I am aware of different body styles/covers/recesses along the lower left hand side of 08's but wasn't sure if this was what was being referred too?

I recall Brassworks 08 were labelled as 'late' or 'early'....???

 

 

When they say long or short hinged, they are referring to the engine access doors on the bonnet side. The early versions had long riveted hinges with single panelled doors, but later ones had short hinges with no straps and pressed engine room doors. Then you can have the cab doors made from wood, with recessed paneling or steel doors that were flush. Then you can have single door handles or twin door handles for the cab doors. Then you get to the boxes on the running plate. You can have no exhauster box, single or twin exhausters (on either side), original or modified exhauster box (the grills were changed on them). Then you can have the extra compressor box fitted to some, which also means that when so fitted the battery box and isolator switch box was altered to fit it in. IIRC there was also a variation in the buffer beam cut outs, and then you have the different lights carried at each end throughout their lives.

 

Complicated, isn't it?

[leopardml2341]

Can someone explain what a long hinged version is please? or short hinged version for that matter?

I am aware of different body styles/covers/recesses along the lower left hand side of 08's but wasn't sure if this was what was being referred too?

I recall Brassworks 08 were labelled as 'late' or 'early'....???

 

 

When they say long or short hinged, they are referring to the engine access doors on the bonnet side. The early versions had long riveted hinges with single panelled doors, but later ones had short hinges with no straps and pressed engine room doors. Then you can have the cab doors made from wood, with recessed paneling or steel doors that were flush. Then you can have single door handles or twin door handles for the cab doors. Then you get to the boxes on the running plate. You can have no exhauster box, single or twin exhausters (on either side), original or modified exhauster box (the grills were changed on them). Then you can have the extra compressor box fitted to some, which also means that when so fitted the battery box and isolator switch box was altered to fit it in. IIRC there was also a variation in the buffer beam cut outs, and then you have the different lights carried at each end throughout their lives.

 

Complicated, isn't it?

 

With almost a 1000 to go at, I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

[cheesysmith]

Actually, if you include the different versions of the humble 0-6-0 DE shunter, with engines and electrical equipment from different manufacturers, there was well over 1000 made, all with identical bodies. And I don't include the LMS versions that had different sized wheels and cabs/bodies.

[leopardml2341]

Actually, if you include the different versions of the humble 0-6-0 DE shunter, with engines and electrical equipment from different manufacturers, there was well over 1000 made, all with identical bodies. And I don't include the LMS versions that had different sized wheels and cabs/bodies.

But, those ones aren't 08's?

 

Or is the Dapol model generically representative of them all?

 

I'm confused.

[cheesysmith]

Well, you can have the class 10 shunters. These were fitted with blackstone diesel engines and either GEC or BTH electrical equipment. Most were sold off into industrial use. There was 146 of these versions made. Or there is the 09, which was just a higher geared 08. Then there was a batch of 10 built with crossley engines and CP electrics. All these had the same bodies, with variations in the boxes on the running boards.

 

Of the ex LMS versions, these had 4ft wheels instead of the 4ft6in of the standard design. But the hight of the loco from the rails was the same, making the running plate lower and the body higher, so could not be correctly modelled from a 08.

Edited January 1, 2016 by cheesysmith

[edcayton]

Surely the basic loco is the English Electric 350 hp shunter, built in batches for various customers over several years. I think that most railwaymen refer to them as "350's" rather than 08's. I don't know who designed/specified the things in the first place, but I think that all the big four had versions.*

 

 

Ed

 

*well,ish after looking a bit more carefully!

Edited January 1, 2016 by edcayton

[F-UnitMad]

.... is the Dapol model generically representative of them all?

I'm confused.

I think that's what Dapol were hoping to produce, at first ...then realised what a can of worms the 08 can be! Plus after the underwhelming response to their P.O. wagons, maybe they cottoned on that "generic" just doesn't cut it in 7mm, & had to rethink the 08 (& Terrier, possibly?) Hence the delays.

[Downendian]

 

When they say long or short hinged, they are referring to the engine access doors on the bonnet side. The early versions had long riveted hinges with single panelled doors, but later ones had short hinges with no straps and pressed engine room doors. Then you can have the cab doors made from wood, with recessed paneling or steel doors that were flush. Then you can have single door handles or twin door handles for the cab doors. Then you get to the boxes on the running plate. You can have no exhauster box, single or twin exhausters (on either side), original or modified exhauster box (the grills were changed on them). Then you can have the extra compressor box fitted to some, which also means that when so fitted the battery box and isolator switch box was altered to fit it in. IIRC there was also a variation in the buffer beam cut outs, and then you have the different lights carried at each end throughout their lives.

 

Complicated, isn't it?

This is my key reference post for these details from Pannier Tank, highly useful I think you will agree.

I'm detailing a few 4mm Hornby 08s at the moment, a lot of variation in such as large class as might be expected.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6622-class-08-09-variations/?p=55482

 

Neil

Edited January 1, 2016 by Downendian