Dapol Black Label Range

[jjb1970]

This is a brave and bold move by Dapol and is to be applauded.

 

I've felt that the development of UK outline levelled off in the mid-00's. I'm not saying models haven't continued to improve since then but the improvements have been of a modest evolutionary nature and fundamentally in most cases if a manufacturer was to tool up a new release of models already made since that time it is unlikely that they'd be noticeably better unless the first release had dropped a bit of a klanger. That is not because of any failings, more that in terms of fidelity to prototype and running qualities the model suppliers reached a point that probably took the OO RTR model to pretty much as far as it could be developed a decade ago. Where there is a big leap to be made is in exploiting DCC functionality. UK outline tends to use DCC for train control, even DCC sound is a minority interest.

 

This range from Dapol is the next big step forward to bring UK OO into line with the rest of Europe in really exploiting DCC to its full extent. And for one of the smaller players like Dapol to make this move given the well known price sensitivity of the UK market and after a period which has been rather troubled for them in many ways is something to really applaud. We see a lot of claims about moving the hobby forward and setting new standards but it is basically just marketing hype (no offence to the other companies) but in this case such a claim would be fully deserved.

 

Hopefully there will be enough takers to demonstrate that there is a sufficient market to support such products. Going forward we could then see models split broadly into three tiers, Railroad type entry level models for the low cost segment and residual train set market, what are now considered full spec models as a new intermediate level without all the DCC functionality but with full levels of physical detail and this new top tier full on DCC level.

[Clearwater]

Fully agree that a model that takes the aftermarket upgrading of locos but bundles them together is a welcome development. However, to me this range will be competing not with Hornby and Bachmann but goldenage and kit built commissions, although owning something unique will always have it's appeal over even a limited run. I'd also be slightly concerned if I was an aftermarket supplier. As such, and per Tony Wright's thread, these models will need to have the same pulling power as those heavy brass locos. When they're reviewed, I'd like to see the reviewers test them with a rake of 12-14 kit built coaches. I suspect those with the spending power to buy a loco at c£400 will also have the spending power to acquire kit built coaches and equally will not want to see their top spec A4 hauling the naff railroad quality Hornby silver jubilee coaches.

 

The A4 is a logical choice - always sells well. However puts me off considering the Hornby A4 set...

 

David

Edited November 29, 2015 by Clearwater

[gismorail]

Agree with all that's been said I think the connection with Lion Heart Trains will had a a big influence.

[PaulRhB]

The A4 is stunning up close, £400 stunning? Well yes if I had a spare pile of cash but it's certainly not in impulse buy territory for most of us!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The A4 is a logical choice ...

Not least because the best plastic bodied version while rather good in the body shell department, came out before Hornby had fully hit their stride with Sanda Kan on the mechanism side. And it will be free of Hornby's horrible bodge of a poorly mounted flangeless Cartazzi wheelset. It will be interesting to see what Dapol have come up with, there's no fundamental obstacle to a very solid looking frame and a flanged wheelset with good engineering choices, and especially if it is designed around the typical choice of fine scale minimum radius in OO, circa 36". Surely there's no need for thoughts of set track operation at the asking price?

 

I don't want any of the smoke/lights/sound features junk, and much prefer to fit my own decoder uniform with all the other locos on the layout: so for me it will be wait and see on whether a basic DCC ready version is ever offered.

[jjb1970]

Agree with all that's been said I think the connection with Lion Heart Trains will had a a big influence.

I tend to agree that Richard Webster of Lionheart has probably been instrumental in this development, but also worth noting that Dapol hired the services of the head of DCC supplies at the same time. With Richard Webster's background in high quality models and an interest in DCC functionality and a link with DCC supplies this new range looks like a logical extension of their previous efforts. I think Dapol made the classic and fundamental error of becoming overly reliant on an individual and when that individual left they were left sinking and desperate for a life buoy, it has taken the new team a while to get things back under control and impose their own stamp on things but it does seem that things are now headed in the right direction for them. Which can only be good news for the hobby.

[JSpencer]

I have to admit that we have waited a very long time for a fully DCC equipped RTR steam locomotive.

 

When I say fully equipped I mean,

DCC with emf feed,

Sound,

Lights

Smoke

Firebox glow (hmm does this black label range have that?).

 

With smoke coming out from different places like the prototype, this is even better.

 

Until now, we had to add these ourselves. Though I normally forego smoke as the seuthe units are not really always apt for what we wish to do nowadays.

 

That said, I've personally got enough A4s (though I think this was always going to be an obvious choice for a first model), so I will wait until some Merchant Navies or Battle of Britains or West country's come out.

[micklner]

Not least because the best plastic bodied version while rather good in the body shell department, came out before Hornby had fully hit their stride with Sanda Kan on the mechanism side. And it will be free of Hornby's horrible bodge of a poorly mounted flangeless Cartazzi wheelset. It will be interesting to see what Dapol have come up with, there's no fundamental obstacle to a very solid looking frame and a flanged wheelset with good engineering choices, and especially if it is designed around the typical choice of fine scale minimum radius in OO, circa 36". Surely there's no need for thoughts of set track operation at the asking price?

 

I don't want any of the smoke/lights/sound features junk, and much prefer to fit my own decoder uniform with all the other locos on the layout: so for me it will be wait and see on whether a basic DCC ready version is ever offered.

Have you looked at the earlier  photos ?

Mallard has a floppy Cartazzi Truck aka Triang and Hornby Dublo days , the blurb doesn't say what radius the solid frame version will go around. I see no problem with the flangeless wheel set its hardly visible when on the rails and saves a lot of problems.

 

The photos show very poor fit of parts to the Silver Fox cab area

 

Mallard has a afterthought piece of metal sitting on top the streamlined area of the Tender Top, no idea if it should be fitted to the Tender body or what it is supposed to be ?

 

Washout plugs and Silver Fox emblem are both thick/heavy looking, access panels on Loco valances over deep.

 

Golfball size knobs used on the Cab handrails.

 

 Hornby A4 is better in all of the above areas mentioned. Good to see they have used the Extra fairing above the water filler used on Silver Fox's Tender when first built.

 

DCC no interest at all, just annoying sounds which are mainly pointless . The Steam however fingers crossed on how it turns out !.

 

 

I will wait to see the final production version with interest.

[Dunsignalling]

Thank you. If they've got lights, sound and DCC, they must be working models. I wonder what sort of coupling they'll have.

 

(Edited for sloppy punctuation and spacing.)

One fitted into a correctly positioned NEM pocket would set it apart from most of their competitors.........

 

John

[mow]

Are they in a sponsorship deal with Carling?

 

Or  Mr Jonathan Walker?

Edited November 29, 2015 by mow

[gwrrob]

Seen in their cabinet today.

 

 

[John B]

Can anyone confirm if the rear truck frames are pukka Cartazzi and rigid, or floppy? There seems to be a worrying amount of daylight where none should be on a couple of the shots of the Garter Blue A4.

 

At that price, I'd expect it to be ALL right..

[Wild Boar Fell]

Can anyone confirm if the rear truck frames are pukka Cartazzi and rigid, or floppy? There seems to be a worrying amount of daylight where none should be on a couple of the shots of the Garter Blue A4.

 

At that price, I'd expect it to be ALL right..

A choice of Cartazzi is available apparently, Fixed & Pivoting for different Radii. I will try and post the full spec later.

[micklner]

These were posted yesterday, hence my comments earlier. Thanks to the poster Edge.

 

 

 

[micklner]

Data sheet

 

[9402 Fredrick]

I might go for one of these and some coaches for it to to pull. Did they say which A4s they were gonna initially release?

[Les1952]

I might go for one of these and some coaches for it to to pull. Did they say which A4s they were gonna initially release?

According to the sheet these six

 

4468 Mallard in blue

2510 Quicksilver in silver grey

4482 Golden Eagle in green

4484 Bittern in blue

2512 Silver Fox in silver grey

4467 Wild Swan in blue.

 

All with valances, prewar condition.  It looks rather like the same list as the N-gauge valanced A4s (which includes Mallard even though it isn't usually on printed lists).  320 of each to be made, except Mallard which will be 400.  All with numbered certificates and in presentation boxes..  "Correct tender and locomotive body variants" presumably means Bittern will either be with streamlined non-corridoor tender and single chimney as built OR  as now with a corridoor tender and double chimney.  I did point out to Richard at the Open Day that the N-gauge one should be one or other of these variants and he agreed to sort it, but he didn't say which it would be.

 

Hope this helps.

Les

[9402 Fredrick]

According to the sheet these six

 

4468 Mallard in blue

2510 Quicksilver in silver grey

4482 Golden Eagle in green

4484 Bittern in blue

2512 Silver Fox in silver grey

4467 Wild Swan in blue.

 

All with valances, prewar condition. It looks rather like the same list as the N-gauge valanced A4s (which includes Mallard even though it isn't usually on printed lists). 320 of each to be made, except Mallard which will be 400. All with numbered certificates and in presentation boxes.. "Correct tender and locomotive body variants" presumably means Bittern will either be with streamlined non-corridoor tender and single chimney as built OR as now with a corridoor tender and double chimney. I did point out to Richard at the Open Day that the N-gauge one should be one or other of these variants and he agreed to sort it, but he didn't say which it would be.

 

Hope this helps.

Les

Thanks, I'm probably gonna get Mallard or Bittern. Hopefully someone knows when the pre-orders for these starts.

[Les1952]

Mallard's plaque doesn't show in the photos-   it wasn't fitted until March 1948 (to rub the other railways' noses in it during the locomotive exchanges) so the absence of the plaque would set it as a prewar model rather than as preserved.  I note it correctly has a non-corridor tender.

 

Les

 

Expressions of interest are already being taken by Dapol.  sales@Dapol.co.uk  for a form.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Les1952

[9402 Fredrick]

Sent them an email, my wallet's crying now .

[Sam Moss]

They've just put it on the news section of their website

 

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information%2Fnews&news_id=140#.Vl1xWOKAnnd

[9402 Fredrick]

According to the sheet these six

 

4468 Mallard in blue

2510 Quicksilver in silver grey

4482 Golden Eagle in green

4484 Bittern in blue

2512 Silver Fox in silver grey

4467 Wild Swan in blue.

 

All with valances, prewar condition. It looks rather like the same list as the N-gauge valanced A4s (which includes Mallard even though it isn't usually on printed lists). 320 of each to be made, except Mallard which will be 400. All with numbered certificates and in presentation boxes.. "Correct tender and locomotive body variants" presumably means Bittern will either be with streamlined non-corridoor tender and single chimney as built OR as now with a corridoor tender and double chimney. I did point out to Richard at the Open Day that the N-gauge one should be one or other of these variants and he agreed to sort it, but he didn't say which it would be.

 

Hope this helps.

Les

Bittern is as built like Mallard is.

[autocoach]

Does the Roco version actually smell like coal smoke, steam and heated lube oil? A new dimension to modelling....getting the smell right.

[JSpencer]

What is remarkable, it is impossible to buy these wonderful smoke units alone anywhere. I would something different from a Seuthe to fit to my locos.

[Stevelewis]

Smoke  worries  me!

Some  may remember if they  were into modelling  in  the  larger  scales in the late 70/early 80s  that  there  was  an article in  one  of  the magazines  stating  that the inhalation of  smoke  from  smoke units  was many times  more dangerous  than  smoking cigarettes, I think the original research had been carried out in the  states,

 

  I remember attending exhibitions and shows  during  that  period  and   the  presence of  smoke in  the  halls  was sometimes  quite overpowering.

 

As a result of the  report  some  exhibition managers  banned  the  use  of  smoke units.

 

In those  days  there  were  few locos in the  smaller  scales  with  smoke  units,  I  remember  owning  a Hornby GWR 2-8-0  with  one fitted  but  I only used the  smoke unit  on or  twice  before disconnecting  it.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Stevelewis