Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

[EddieB]

3 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

As the first phase provides step free access at both Paddington and Liverpool St then your luggage and escalators will no longer require to mix in the initial period before the through running starts.

Yes and no.  It depends where you're changing from - if it's the Central Line then it's across the platform at Stratford onto the not-yet-through service into Liverpool Street or escalators (still more convenient to change for District at Mile End and for Piccadilly around Hammersmith?).  "Step free" means lifts, of course, which get busy (quite rightly priority to wheelchair users and push-chairs) and aren't anywhere near as convenient as a simple cross-platform interchange.

[EddieB]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

But at least some of its routes have created inter (mainline) station possible journeys which were previously non-existent or far from easy by anything other than the dubious joys of a trip in a Parisian taxi..

Indeed, yes.  I remember being stuffed into taxis to get from Gare du Nord to Gare de l'Est in the days of package holidays.

 

Much more civilised was a trip around the Ceinture from Nord to Lyon (aside from a broken rail on the way in to Lyon).  At least RER line D is quicker - and carries on to VSG for the convenience of depot bashers!

[Mike Storey]

7 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I question exactly how much relief to Lewisham it really will provide.

 

 

Up to about 30%? And that is assuming timetables and flows don't change.

 

Isn't that enough?

[Mike Storey]

2 hours ago, EddieB said:

Indeed, yes.  I remember being stuffed into taxis to get from Gare du Nord to Gare de l'Est in the days of package holidays.

 

Much more civilised was a trip around the Ceinture from Nord to Lyon (aside from a broken rail on the way in to Lyon).  At least RER line D is quicker - and carries on to VSG for the convenience of depot bashers!

 

But, if you have luggage, a taxi ride is much the preferred mode, even with RER.

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 16/05/2022 at 08:27, melmerby said:

I see that the "ghost" service, currently running on Elizabeth Line is now live on Real Time Trains.

When I looked a while back it wasn't showing.

The service has been showing on RTT since last year.

You might have looked on days it wasn’t running, such as on weekends, when certain exercises were taking place, or certain midweek days.

Most weeks, Mon-Fri, RTT showed a full working timetable, plus additional stock movements.

[DY444]

15 hours ago, EddieB said:

Yes and no.  It depends where you're changing from - if it's the Central Line then it's across the platform at Stratford onto the not-yet-through service into Liverpool Street or escalators (still more convenient to change for District at Mile End and for Piccadilly around Hammersmith?).  "Step free" means lifts, of course, which get busy (quite rightly priority to wheelchair users and push-chairs) and aren't anywhere near as convenient as a simple cross-platform interchange.

 

Changing from the westbound Central line at Stratford will be no different than it is now when through Elizabeth line running starts to/from the GEML - in both cases you have to get to the Up Electric platform.  As you indicate, there is already a step free route from the east end of the Central line to Heathrow by utilising the cross platform interchange at Mile End and either Barons Court or Hammersmith.  As I pointed out there will be another when the Elizabeth line opens next week using the new access at Liverpool St and Paddington. 

 

There are entirely valid reasons to be frustrated by the phased opening, principal among them the delay to the journey time reductions between station pairs east and west of the core, but the escalator and luggage argument on its own is not valid.  There is already one long standing way of avoiding that and another will become available next week.

Edited May 18, 2022 by DY444

[KeithMacdonald]

An entertaining video from Geoff Marshall

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

But, if you have luggage, a taxi ride is much the preferred mode, even with RER.

 

Yes - we have done exactly that between Paddington and Liverpool St (and vice versa) in pre-pandemic years when we had occasion to make that journey.  It is a long drawn out taxi-ride subject to traffic delays and nowhere near the sort of inter-station times you could achieve in the days when the Circle Line worked properly but is far easier with luggage than using the UndergrounD.

 

Change holiday circumstances mean such a trip is highly unlikely in future although a possible future alternative is to change to a Crossrail train at Ealing Broadway and use whatever sort of egress to surface station level is available at Liverpool St.

[EddieB]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Yes - we have done exactly that between Paddington and Liverpool St (and vice versa) in pre-pandemic years when we had occasion to make that journey.  It is a long drawn out taxi-ride subject to traffic delays and nowhere near the sort of inter-station times you could achieve in the days when the Circle Line worked properly but is far easier with luggage than using the UndergrounD.

An alternative is to take the Central line from Liverpool Street and walk to Paddington from Lancaster Gate (or vice versa) - something that Crossrail 1.0 should improve.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 17/05/2022 at 13:20, The Stationmaster said:

 But I couldn't really see that happening because in publicity terms you would get an immediate hoohah with folk asking (with good reason)  why if a Royal Train can run from, say,  Slough to wherever in the central section of the route why do we have to wait months before ordinary mortals can do it?

There's also the question of whether there would have been any point in doing all that planning, as the appearance of HM came was rather unexpected given how few events she has been well enough to attend lately.  It would have seemed a bit OTT had the line been officially opened by one of the minor royals.

 

Would they have planned only on calculations of gauging issues etc, or if clearances had looked very tight whether they would have done a dummy run to prove it?  Also, in the event that they wanted to stop the Queen's Saloon in the underground section, they might have problems aligning the doors precisely with the safety barrier screen to let her alight as the train presumably would not be controlled as precisely as the new service trains.  At least its doors open inwards so they shouldn't foul that screen, but I doubt the train meets Underground lines requirement for emergency evacuation via the end door, and I can't see them wanting to risk Her Majesty having to climb down a ladder and walk balk to Bond Street!

 

On 17/05/2022 at 14:40, EddieB said:

Yes, it's an exciting project - and long overdue (not just construction overruns).  I want it to be a success.

 

Not as overdue as the Chunnel was - Napoleon wanted an artificial island half way to rest the horses. 

Or even the one that was started in 1880!

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

…..I doubt the train meets Underground lines requirement for emergency evacuation via the end door, and I can't see them wanting to risk Her Majesty having to climb down a ladder and walk balk to Bond Street! …….

Elizabeth line trains don’t have any end doors.

The whole length of the 9-car train is open, end to end with no corridor connections and there are no doors on the driving cab ends.

Evacuation from a train in the tunnels would be from the normal passenger doors, directly onto the platform level emergency walkway, than runs along the length of the tunnel wall.

No need for ladders.

 

 

 

 

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Edited May 18, 2022 by Ron Ron Ron

[Northmoor]

Anyone wondering why the Royal train wasn't used for the Queen's visit - @The Stationmasterand others have given practical explanations - need to remember that it is to transport members of the Royal family to events and distant locations.  When they are opening new railways, they travel on the same stock as the general public will; the whole point is that they experience what their subjects will experience (although the Borders Railway re-opening train was perhaps an honorable exception).  There are no royal carriages on London Underground (in fact it's famously one class, which makes it a no-go area for some people, apparently); when the Queen and Prince Charles opened the Victoria and Jubilee lines, they even travelled in the cab at some points.

[RJS1977]

Although a funeral train has run on the Underground:

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

He is indeed pronouncing Hawarden wrong.  The locals say it as Harden.

[The Pilotman]

A quick question for anyone familiar with the east end of this project. From next week I understand that a journey from Heathrow to London City airport will be possible in two ways: with a change of Elizabeth Line trains at Paddington and then onto the DLR at Woolwich, or another change at Liverpool Street and then the DLR from Stratford. Is that right? If so, in terms of service frequency and ease of connections at Woolwich and Stratford, which would be the best option? 

[EddieB]

1 hour ago, The Pilotman said:

A quick question for anyone familiar with the east end of this project. From next week I understand that a journey from Heathrow to London City airport will be possible in two ways: with a change of Elizabeth Line trains at Paddington and then onto the DLR at Woolwich, or another change at Liverpool Street and then the DLR from Stratford. Is that right? If so, in terms of service frequency and ease of connections at Woolwich and Stratford, which would be the best option? 

Trains to London City to/from Stratford are every ten minutes off-peak, alternating with trains to/from Bank for a five minute interval between Canning Town and Woolwich Arsenal.  It can be expedient to catch the Jubilee from Stratford and change at Canning Town.

 

Woolwich Arsenal is about a five-minute walk from the new Woolwich station, which may be a better option from next Tuesday.

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, EddieB said:

An alternative is to take the Central line from Liverpool Street and walk to Paddington from Lancaster Gate (or vice versa) - something that Crossrail 1.0 should improve.

The walk to Lancaster Gate isn't too bad on a nice day but it involves the need, several times, to cross busy roads so can take extra time because of waiting for the traffic lights to change or for gaps in the traffic.  Not a good walk with luggage but clearly quite popular for many commuters over the years judging by the numbers which used to come off some trains and head for Lancaster Gate.  No doubt some, or all of them are likely to transfer to the Liz Line (unless, fora while, they're heading for Bond Street).

 

15 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Anyone wondering why the Royal train wasn't used for the Queen's visit - @The Stationmasterand others have given practical explanations - need to remember that it is to transport members of the Royal family to events and distant locations.  When they are opening new railways, they travel on the same stock as the general public will; the whole point is that they experience what their subjects will experience (although the Borders Railway re-opening train was perhaps an honorable exception).  There are no royal carriages on London Underground (in fact it's famously one class, which makes it a no-go area for some people, apparently); when the Queen and Prince Charles opened the Victoria and Jubilee lines, they even travelled in the cab at some points.

The way new line opening etc has been done over the years has definitely changed with the involved Royal nowadays - and for some time past on the UndergrounD using a 'normal' train for the inauguration process.  the same of course was done for the Chunnel where both Eurostar UK and SNCF used ordinary Class 373 sets for the process.

 

But - having been deeply involved in the planning of the Royal inauguration train for the Chunnel I can assure everyone that gauging issues would be only one tiny part of what is involved is the planning of such events although rather amusingly (in one respect) we actually only held one planning meeting for that job - it was just considerably bigger in number of attendees than any other such planning meetings had attended or chaired.  The actual train planning work was more involved than ever despite the apparent simplicity of such a job but one big advantage was that unlike a certain other member of the RF when HM has said she will be doing so & so and require whatever she does not change her mind  - which makes things a lot simpler.

[Grovenor]

I could see no indication on the reports of this latest occasion that HM boarded any sort of train, they were just seen to pass through while she was on the platform.

[EddieB]

4 hours ago, Grovenor said:

I could see no indication on the reports of this latest occasion that HM boarded any sort of train, they were just seen to pass through while she was on the platform.

Did she employ a footman to jot down the numbers?

[Michael Hodgson]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The walk to Lancaster Gate isn't too bad on a nice day but it involves the need, several times, to cross busy roads so can take extra time because of waiting for the traffic lights to change or for gaps in the traffic.  Not a good walk with luggage but clearly quite popular for many commuters over the years judging by the numbers which used to come off some trains and head for Lancaster Gate.  No doubt some, or all of them are likely to transfer to the Liz Line (unless, fora while, they're heading for Bond Street).

 

When I was based in Chancery Lane those of my colleagues who had the misfortune to come in from the Reading direction used to do that walk to Lancaster Gate.  They said it was no big deal, and as there were so many of them in rush hour crossing the roads didn't present any problems; the traffic had to fit round the crowds.  What they all griped about was the chronic overcrowding on that stretch of the Central Line.  As you say the walk would be no fun with luggage, but in rush hour you wouldn't be able to  force your way onto a City-bound service with a suitcase.

I came into Kings Cross so in theory my best route would be to change onto that line at Holborn.  But you had to let the first three trains go before you could get near enough the doors to board, so it was a lot faster to surface at Holborn than to try to board the Central Line for just one stop.  And anyway when the weather was half decent I found it was more pleasant and just as fast simply to walk all the way down the Grays Inn Road.

So the new line should make life a great deal easier than it was in my time, relieving the pressure for those travelling to the more numerous stations still served only by the Central.  And commuters from the west for the banking/insurance area will prefer the speed of the new line to Liverpool Street, so that should also ease the crowding on the Met lines.

[Grovenor]

On 14/05/2022 at 12:42, Chris116 said:

During the last week I have received two emails from TfL to tell me the Elizabeth Line is opening on 24th May which is the good news.

 

The bad news is that the TfL journey planner says that on 26th May the fastest way to travel from Paddington to Liverpool Street is by the Circle Line! Looks like left hand and right hand are not talking to each other.

TfL Journey planner now has the Elizabeth line in. And does give the Elizabeth line as the quickest from Padd to L.St.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Grovenor

[Chris116]

3 hours ago, Grovenor said:

TfL Journey planner now has the Elizabeth line in. And does give the Elizabeth line as the quickest from Padd to L.St.

So I see. They have finally updated it.

[Platform 1]

Tfl giveth with one hand... and taketh away with the other (albeit temporarily)...

 

Planned track closures (as at 19 May 2022)

 

And again the TfL Journey Planner doesn't seem to know about this (yet).  It suggests the fastest route from Farringdon to Paddington on 11 June is the Cross/Liz/Purp line.  Travellers will need to be wary because the H&C is also shown as closed that weekend.

 

Mind you, I don't envy the team that writes the software to handle all these exceptions...

Edited May 22, 2022 by Platform 1
Image absent

[ess1uk]

Well it’s finally open to the public and there have been queues in the rain for the first train 

Edited May 24, 2022 by ess1uk
Spellin

[Ron Ron Ron]

The largest amount of press coverage is in the DM.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10848095/All-aboard-Elizabeth-Line-service-departs-Paddington-Station-6-33am.html

 

 

 

 

 

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