Oxford Rail Wish List?

[wombatofludham]

Pah! Lets have some decent RTR lamposts.  

 

P

 

Nah, if we're talking scenery I think a toilet block with DCC sound chip and electronic diffuser for authentic sounds and aromas.

[MGR Hooper!]

I would like to see a new Class 86 and Class 87...

[Neal Ball]

Obviously various diagrams of GWR Toad Brake Van

 

I have just emailed oxford Rail to see if there is any mileage in this. Obviously there was a Poll a few years ago about the GWR Toad Brake Vans.... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69904-gwr-toad-brake-vans/ 

[Dunsignalling]

Doesn't David Geen do a (white metal) kit?

 

GRA Models do a body in resin to this diagram too.

I bought one off GRA Models at Southampton show, but this one is destined to be a grounded body.

 

He also showed me some 3D printed LSWR 48' coach bodies he has under development. Still a little way to go at the time but very promising.

 

John

[Hilux5972]

A new GWR 4-6-0 County would be great. The Hornby one is good but it's definitely beginning to show its age.

[darrel]

Another wish list to add this to.

[Tim Dubya]

Pah! Lets have some decent RTR lamposts.  

 

P

 

You're right Porcy, of course you are, but I fear that after the Radial fiasco they might not get it right again and not show daylight where daylight is clearly visible on the prototype!

 

Anyway, wouldn't they be in danger of replication, with another manufacturer about to announce entry into this fascinating area of RTR products? (once he puts a stop [see what I did there] to his other ranges). 

[Garethp8873]

Might as well throw it out as you never know... a wider variety of Grouping Container loads...?

[Porcy Mane]

I think a toilet block with DCC sound chip and electronic diffuser for authentic sounds and aromas.

 

If most of the MR exhibitions I've been to are are anything to go by, a sound chip and diffuser will be not necessary.

 

P

[Neil]

Furness Railway 2-2-2 well tank please.

[Porcy Mane]

You're right Porcy, of course you are, but I fear that after the Radial fiasco they might not get it right again and not show daylight where daylight is clearly visible on the prototype!

 

Anyway, wouldn't they be in danger of replication, with another manufacturer about to announce entry into this fascinating area of RTR products? (once he puts a stop [see what I did there] to his other ranges). 

Dubya, Yes I saw what you dun.

Your voice of common sense and reason has once again illuminated my desperate, yet I fear lonesome desire for accurate, erect and upstanding street furniture of the past.

 I shall now take myself off into a darkened room street with a recording of my favorite rendition of my favorite Mr Formby ditty. I may be some time...

Comrade,

P

Edited February 18, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[The Black Hat]

Id give my suggestions for Oxford rail, but to be honest now it could be anything. I was quite surrpised by the Mk. 3s as I thought that they stood apart from the idea of steam and coaching stock that they seemed to be going for thus far.

 

As a result, my suggestions to the company could be;

 

1. Some late -NER coaching stock. Maybe push pull set or range of celestory stock. 

2. Class 156

3. BR Standard 3MT

4. JQA (I think) scrap wagons, in use with DCR, etc.

5. New retooled MGR Hopper wagon.

[Tim Dubya]

I shall now take myself off into a darkened room with a recording of my favorite rendition of my favorite Mr Formby ditty. I may be some time...

 

Comrade,

P

 

Definitely a contender for the national anthem of a devolvoed North.

 

Of course, "When I'm Breaking Cleaning Windows" would be another good choice, but you couldn't play it on here because of the forum rules about being obsessed with signing about naked women from the '30's like.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tim Dubya

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I've seen the engineering prototype for a new super detailed GWR Hall...

 

 

Note the daylight under the boiler, behind the hand rails, around the nameplate, and the sophisticated mechanism for getting round 2nd radius curves by knocking the pesky flanges off and having a smaller diameter middle wheel.

[Porcy Mane]

I've seen the engineering prototype for a new super detailed GWR Hall...

 

Thanks. I didn't realise Oxford was into Design Clever too.

[Porcy Mane]

Definitely a contender for the national anthem of a devolvoed North.

 

 

If we had decent lamposts in the North we wouldn't need Volvoes.

[scottrains29]

HST class 43. This is an obvious choice since nothing else goes with HST mk3's. Also Lyndon Davies apparently has a personal interest in trains and the real HST's go as far as Swansea, his home city.

[A Murphy]

GWR Toplights would definitely get my vote (and cash). A high quality Saint wouldn't go amiss either......

 

Alastair M

[Mike Storey]

Id give my suggestions for Oxford rail, but to be honest now it could be anything. I was quite surrpised by the Mk. 3s as I thought that they stood apart from the idea of steam and coaching stock that they seemed to be going for thus far.

 

As a result, my suggestions to the company could be;

 

1. Some late -NER coaching stock. Maybe push pull set or range of celestory stock. 

2. Class 156

3. BR Standard 3MT

4. JQA (I think) scrap wagons, in use with DCR, etc.

5. New retooled MGR Hopper wagon.

 

Do you really mean the JXA 102t bogie scrap wagon (ex-POA)? If so, I second, third and fourth this!!! Great idea - has been missing ever since Appleby stopped making the kits.

[locoholic]

I would like the 21T and/or 24T BR steel mineral wagon, the LBSC K mogul and C2X, any Scottish 0-6-0 or 4-4-0, and any of the more esoteric DMUs (class 100, 104, 120).

 

An odd selection, I know, but not much odder than the current/future Oxford range so far.

[Edwardian]

This thread is for all wish list suggestions, regardless of era, so please forgive me for posting this here and at such length.  What follows concerns the manufacture of pre-Grouping prototypes, but it has relevance to Grouping and BR steam-age modellers too.  The subject is not, by any means, confined to Oxford (but if they read it and agreed with it, that would be a Good Thing). 

 

Anyway, on the Oxford Wagons thread, I maintained that one could expand the market for historic railway modelling by choosing, say, 4 basic types of locomotives plus some carriages for some of the major pre-Grouping companies and that this would suffice to make the era accessible and, in due course, more popular than at present. 

 

Below I attempt to set out the implications of this suggestion, i.e. what it could entail.  It is somewhat grandiose.  It is a personal view from a distinctly megalomaniacal standpoint.  If you bother to read any of it, please bear that in mind!

 

For want of a better place to post it, here goes:

 

Pre-Grouping Ready-to-Run: The Future Lies in the Past

 

This is our Lottery Win Manifesto.  It represents, not the world as it is, or, even, the world as it is likely to be.  It merely represents the world as it could be.

 

General Observations

 

The aim is to encourage the market for pre-Grouping era modellers, and to help Grouping era and BR era modellers to have varied and more representative prototypes for their layout projects. The idea is to be prescriptive and deliberately to narrow the choices with a view to ensuring that the basic building blocks are available to entrants and established modellers alike.  We cannot have a model of everything, so our aims can only be achieved by focussing upon:

 

• Only some of the larger or more popular pre-Grouping companies.

 

• Achieving the minimum number of models for an average layout project.

 

• The focus will be upon representing the various basic types of traffic on secondary mainline or branches, as such schemes are most the practical for most people in OO.

 

• One top-link passenger design is selected for each selected company in recognition of the enduring popularity of express locomotives.

 

• Coaching stock is a priority.  Even the limited pool of RTR pre-Grouping locomotives are bereft of suitable coaching stock.  Groupers are limited to one or two standard types, and this is not representative of their period.  Coaching stock should generally be that which can be used behind as many of the locomotives as possible.

 

• Goods brake vans and one or two of the most numerous company wagons only, given that plastic kits and past RTR releases will make at least some suitable goods vehicles available. 

  

Once these basic building blocks are in place, it will become much easier to contemplate further releases of locomotives and stock for the pre-Grouping companies selected, and, also, for neighbouring companies, for which there are not yet RTR models.

 

Locomotive Types

 

Given the compromises inherent in OO and the amount of space commonly available for domestic layouts, the suggestion is that passing stations, secondary mainlines and branch lines will represent the most suitable subjects, and locomotives and stock appropriate to such lines should be chosen.  Of course, most mainlines will run trip goods, suburban, local, semi-fast and stopping services, in addition to expresses and fast freights, so really, the locomotives and stock chosen might be said to be essential for most schemes.

 

In this context a large modern (for the pre-Grouping Era) express passenger locomotive is a luxury, but is always a popular subject that is likely to sell, so provision might be made for one for each chosen company.  Such types will be the more powerful 4-4-0s, 4-4-2s and 4-6-0s. 

 

The same might be said for the large 8-coupled goods classes typical of the early years of the Twentieth Century.  Much would be achieved if the manufacturers concerned would back-date existing models, the GWR 2800, the GCR 8K (LNER O4/ROD), the GNR Tango, the NER Q6, and the LNWR G2 (Super D).

 

Returning to the idea of a minimalist programme, it is submitted that each of the selected pre-Grouping companies should have the following as a minimum:

 

• 1 0-6-0 Goods tender engine.  An obvious necessity for each company.

 

• 1 0-6-0T.  Generally something for shunting and short, light goods workings, but some small passenger types might be considered. 

 

• 1 Passenger Tank, suitable for branch, suburban, or, short-stopping services.  This will typically be 4-coupled, but some companies made extensive use of 0-6-2Ts on passenger services, e.g. LBSC E classes, GNR N1s and N2s, LNWR Watford and Coal Tanks.

 

• One small 4-coupled passenger or mixed traffic tender engine.  This could be anything from a former Victorian top-link express engine cascaded to second-line work, to a smaller design intended for mixed traffic work. Smaller, older or mixed traffic 4-4-0s would be appropriate, otherwise non-bogie types are likely to predominate; 2-4-0s and some 0-4-2s.

 

Those are the 4 basic types, between which most types of common traffic can be catered for.  In addition, we suggest a modern express passenger class, and some companies might justify an extra choice for a particularly popular subject.

 

The choice of an individual locomotive to fill this slot will be influenced by a number of factors that we suggest need to be taken into account.  The first factor is expediency.  Where an RTR model exists, its manufacturer should be encouraged to make it available in pre-Grouping livery.  In some cases this will involve selective re-tooling of the body shell, or elements thereof.

 

Second, the extent to which the class is common, numerous or representative. 

 

Third, the longevity of the class, so that the choice of model supports Grouping-Era modellers seeking more varied or representative prototypes, and, if possible the BR modeller.  It is accepted the variations in tooling will often have to be planned for to represent a class over time.

 

Fourth, some classes may have a popularity or wow factor that accords them priority and means they are a sensible choice even if they do not best fit the criteria we are otherwise working too.  This will often be the case with museum tie-in commissions.

 

Filling the Locomotive Categories

 

Some choices are going to be fairly obvious, due to the utility, popularity or longevity of certain classes.  For instance, in the passenger tank category, the obvious winning candidates would be, for the SECR, the H Class, and, for the Midland a Johnson 1P 0-4-4T.  For the small tender engine category, the GER mixed traffic (“intermediate”) T26 (LNER E4) would be another fairly obvious choice.

Not all categories for all railways will be easy to fill.  There will be examples of two or more strong contenders.  At least one of each basic type of locomotive will result, however, even if the chosen design is not everyone’s favourite option.

 

Rolling Stock

 

In terms of rolling stock, the greatest need, for both pre-Grouping and Grouping modellers, is for pre-Grouping coaching stock.  In an ideal world the modeller of each company would have the choice of:

 

• One branch set: Auto trailer, or short loco-hauled bogie, or 4-wheeled set

 

• One set of 6-wheel mainline coaches – built and in widespread service until surprisingly late

 

• One set of short (e.g. 42’-50’) non-corridor bogie or radial coaches

 

• One set of modern Edwardian 56’-59’ corridor express passenger coaches.

 

If only one set were to be produced, we would suggest the set of short non-corridor bogie or radial coaches as the most useful, combining flexibility and longevity optimally.

Selected company goods wagons, and, in each case, a goods brake, represent a practical minimum.

 

The Companies

 

This is an impossibly hard and controversial choice.  We are committed to at least 5 locomotives and one set of coaches for each company.  There must be a sensible limit to the number of companies chosen.
We, therefore, tentatively suggest the following to start with:

 

• Great Western Railway

 

• London & South Western Railway

 

• South Eastern & Chatham Railway

 

• London, Brighton & South Coast Railway

 

• Great Eastern Railway

 

• Great Northern Railway

 

• North Eastern Railway

 

• North British Railway

 

• Great Central Railway

 

• Midland Railway

 

• London North Western Railway

 

• Caledonian Railway

 

If the 4 basic locomotive types, plus a modern express type, are allowed, that is already 60 locomotives.  We would argue that the GWR, for reasons both of its size and popularity, warrants 2 sets of locomotives, bringing the total to 65. 

 

A number of these 65 locomotives already exist RTR or have been announced, and do, will, or easily could, exist in pre-Grouping guise.  We have the GWR City, GWR Star, GWR Dean Goods, LSWR M7 or Adams Radial or O2, SECR C, LBSC E4, LBSC Atlantic, GER Y14 (J15), GNR N2, GNR J13 (J52) or J23 (J50), GNR Atlantic, GCR Director, GCR Class 9 (J11), LNWR Coal Tank, and Midland Compound. These releases fill 15 of those 65 slots, plus some duplicates in certain categories, or would if, in all cases, manufacturers would co-operate with the release of pre-Grouping versions (including pre-WW1 liveries where appropriate for the class).

 

Fifty locomotives are still a lot, 50 locomotives plus at least 12 sets of coaches.

 

There is, of course, a case for each of the excluded companies.  Adherents to the Highland, or the Cambrian, or Hull & Barnsley, Furness, North Staffs, Great North of Scotland, Midland & South West Junction, Maryport & Carlisle, Glasgow & South Western and all the South Wales companies, and those we failed even to list, will be justifiably miffed.  The best case for inclusion might be the Lancashire & Yorkshire, as they, at least, have an RTR locomotive released.

 

All we can sensibly say to this is that you are right, we are doubtless wrong, but lines must be drawn somewhere.  In time, other companies’ adherents will have some locomotives made for them, just as those modelling the companies listed above can expect further releases.  This is about securing the basic building blocks for pre-Groupers and expanding the universe of Groupers. We have to start somewhere.
By way of an example, we illustrate the approach by reference to the LB&SCR, as set out below:

 

LB&SC

 

0-6-0 Goods Engine: C2X

 

We recommend a C2 or C2X.  The C2X would probably be more popular with post-Groupers, as there were only 3 C2s left by Nationalisation, and these went 1948-50.   The C2Xs survived to the early ‘60s, the last going in 1962.

Provision would need to be made for both single and twin domed C2Xs, as the Billington top-feed that the second domes housed, were not introduced until the early 1920s.

 

0-6-0T: A1/A1X

 

Often these will be shunting or short-distance goods locomotives.  In the case of the Brighton the suggestion is a passenger class, the A1. The Terrier is a smashing little engine and very high in the wish-list polls.  The current OO model is a crude and highly inaccurate hybrid of inconsistent details.

 

We consider a new Terrier model to be a ‘no-brainer’.

 

We recommend 3 basic variants:

 

• A1

 

• A1X

 

• Isle of Wight

 

Passenger tank: E4

 

Generally these will be 4-coupled.  In the case of the Brighton one of the D classes would fit the bill and would make a lovely model.  However, we are concerned with the recommended minimum and most of the 0-6-2T E classes were also used for passenger traffic and the Bachmann E4 fits the bill beautifully.

 

For this reason, the recommendation is for Bachmann to produce a re-tooled boiler so that earlier-state E4s can be represented.  These would be appropriate in both Stroudley Goods Green and passenger Improved Engine Green (IEG), and, so, result in two very attractive models.

 

Small 4-coupled passenger tender engine: Gladstone

 

The recommendation is for a ‘Gladstone’ 0-4-2.  Although a real veteran (1882) Gladstone herself is a famous locomotive that has scored very respectably in polls, and would fall within the MRM/Locomotion limited edition brief perfectly.

 

The class is also a practical choice.  Originally a toplink locomotive, the class continued to work express traffic as the 4-4-0 B2s of 1895 did not fulfil their expectations. In due course the class assumed secondary duties and was very long-lived, equally at home in Stroudley IEG, Marsh Umber or SR Olive Green.  Never wholly superseded during the pre-Grouping years, ex-SECR 4-40s could take up their work after Grouping and the last Gladstone had gone by 1933. 

 

Tooling would need to take account of re-boilerings and the different cab detail between Gladstone and the remainder of the class.

 

Express Locomotive: Marsh Atlantic

 

While we would also like to see a B4 4-4-0, allowance is made for one recommended express locomotive for each company, and this, largely, because people like top-link locomotives, even if they are not always the most practical choice for a layout.

 

Bachmann may fulfil its promise of an Atlantic, which, if produced in its original umber livery, will fulfil the brief.

 

Rolling Stock

 

The minimum recommended is one Goods Brake and one set of coaches.

 

For the coaches we suggest:

 

• Billington non-corridor bogie coaches to enable at least a 4-coach set.

 

• Balloon trailer for the Terrier

Edited February 18, 2016 by Edwardian

[frobisher]

GWR Toads are long overdue now. The Bachmann/Mainline mould has done a good job but now it's in need of replacing.

Didn't both Hornby and Bachmann produce new tooling for their previous diagram a couple of years back?

[autocoach]

Pah! Lets have some decent RTR lamposts.  

 

P

I bought some DCC Concepts Swan Neck lamp posts for my Southern Railway Padstow platform to replace the dummy cast metal ones that droop over time.  Unfortunately the OO version of the DCC Concepts Swan Neck looks fine for an O scale station platform.  I have not installed them. I asked Richard about the size issue and he indicated they are really an LMS prototype cast in green for Southern rubes such me to buy without reading the measurements.

 

So we do need decent RTR LSWR/SR scale lamps that replicate the gas lamps of the past.

[Hilux5972]

HST class 43. This is an obvious choice since nothing else goes with HST mk3's. Also Lyndon Davies apparently has a personal interest in trains and the real HST's go as far as Swansea, his home city.

Did you miss the announcement from Hornby that they made new models of the Class 43 power cars for release in 2007/2008?

[MGR Hooper!]

HST class 43. This is an obvious choice since nothing else goes with HST mk3's. Also Lyndon Davies apparently has a personal interest in trains and the real HST's go as far as Swansea, his home city.

I don't think we need another set of HST powercars...