Motorail

[acg5324]

I've just completed a major upload of Motorail brochures to my photo gallery. Years uploaded so far are 1965/6/8 1970/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 1981 and the covers only (so far ) for 1983/5 and 1990. There are a lot of pictures of Motorail services to.

Hope these are of interest.

[hobbyhorse]

That brings back memories, the photo shows the turn from my note book dated 1981.

I remember that the departure time from Dover did fluctuate with engineering works on route.

The turn doesn't show all the shunt movements which happened at Dover and Kensington.

At Dover the coaches would be in the Docks station, with the car flats in the loading siding out near the town yard, so the first move was to collect the flats and place in the station, then collect the coaches and shunt onto the flats. 

Our portion and that from Brockenhurst would meet at Kensington Olympia and each train was generally three or four coaches with and the same with the flats, and it was easier for us if we got there first as it made the shunting easier, the formation of the train was coaches next to the loco with the flats on the back. I don't think much sleep was had by the passengers with all the shunting going on. Once complete we worked the train to Mitre Bridge with the two locos to change over to an AC loco, the crew from the South Western would stay on the loco until we got back to Clapham Jn, after we detached that loco off that would go to there depot and us back to Hither Green.

It wasn't unknown for the train to de diverted via the East coast main line, in which case we worked it via the North London line, this we did on our own with the locos in multiple as the South Western crew didn't sign that route.

 

Simon

[GordonC]

Did Newton-Le-Willows not have a motorail terminal at one point? Was it not in use for motorail at all between the 1960s and 1990s? I didn't see it mentioned in the timetables shown there

[acg5324]

Did Newton-Le-Willows not have a motorail terminal at one point? Was it not in use for motorail at all between the 1960s and 1990s? I didn't see it mentioned in the timetables shown there

1966 brochure certainly has services from Newton le Willows to Dover, Stirling and Newton Abbott.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for uploading these - very evocative!

 

I have always found these trains to be quirkily interesting - you still see trains of coaching stock with a car carrier or two on the back in places like Italy.

 

Does anyone happen to know whether motorail services mainly used Cartic-4s or the single deck car carriers usually on old carriage chassis? My recollection of the few Motorail trains I saw on the WCML in the late 70s was for Cartic-4s.... did it vary from route to route?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Ben A

[br2975]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for uploading these - very evocative!

 

I have always found these trains to be quirkily interesting - you still see trains of coaching stock with a car carrier or two on the back in places like Italy.

 

Does anyone happen to know whether motorail services mainly used Cartic-4s or the single deck car carriers usually on old carriage chassis? My recollection of the few Motorail trains I saw on the WCML in the late 70s was for Cartic-4s.... did it vary from route to route?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

I never saw anything but 'flats' on the Fishguard service which stood on the middle roads at Cardiff General/Central for a crew change on the down working.

.

It was also mainly, but not all, 'first class' stock as well.

 

Brian R

[pheaton]

Theres a british transport film which covers motorail very closely quite an eye opener.

[petethemole]

My first real job was as a temp clerk at the Kensington Olympia terminal in summer '66. Part of my job was to create the loading plan by fitting all the cars by length onto a diagram of the train for the most effective use of the space. The plan was then dyeline copied and copies went to the loading staff and guard plus one for the destination staff. All the wagons then were flats.

[Rivercider]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for uploading these - very evocative!

 

I have always found these trains to be quirkily interesting - you still see trains of coaching stock with a car carrier or two on the back in places like Italy.

 

Does anyone happen to know whether motorail services mainly used Cartic-4s or the single deck car carriers usually on old carriage chassis? My recollection of the few Motorail trains I saw on the WCML in the late 70s was for Cartic-4s.... did it vary from route to route?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

I only remember seeing, and photographing, flats in Devon and Somerset on the west country trains.

 

I also remember Bristol receiving a motorail GUV off a daily service from Newcastle in the early 1980s,

 

cheers 

[luckymucklebackit]

In the days before the WCML electrification was completed, the Newton Abbott Motorails were a "must see" at Coatbridge Central as the WR class 47s worked right through to Stirling and Perth and it was not unusual to have on of the (then) very rare "namers" at the head of the train.

 

Jim

[Phil Bullock]

Fantastic resource thanks for sharing!

 

Flats GUVs and TCVs all fair game for Motorail traffic through Abbotswood in 1972

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Phil Bullock]

In the days before the WCML electrification was completed, the Newton Abbott Motorails were a "must see" at Coatbridge Central as the WR class 47s worked right through to Stirling and Perth and it was not unusual to have on of the (then) very rare "namers" at the head of the train.

 

Jim

 

Jim

 

nice to hear confirmation of that - We have 1662 and 1666 with the appropriate headcodes to work the train past Abbotswood...

 

And on one day in 1971 a Warship - 861 IIRC - made it as far north as Crewe on this working - rare by that time.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[acg5324]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for uploading these - very evocative!

I have always found these trains to be quirkily interesting - you still see trains of coaching stock with a car carrier or two on the back in places like Italy.

Does anyone happen to know whether motorail services mainly used Cartic-4s or the single deck car carriers usually on old carriage chassis? My recollection of the few Motorail trains I saw on the WCML in the late 70s was for Cartic-4s.... did it vary from route to route?

cheers

Ben A.

The Cartic4s got renumbered to the wagon series from the coaching series very early on and joined their sister wagons on automotive deliveries.

As a rule of thumb it looks like the old coach chassis were used for new car deliveries and the Mk1 Carflats on Motorail as well as car deliveries.

 

 

A former collegue of mine who had worked at Euston travel centre earlier in his career, told me the story of the morning the GUVs off the Edinburgh Motorail were unloaded to find that they were the cars for Bristol. No prizes for guessing where the Euston cars were.

[Fat Controller]

My memories of seeing the Fishguard Motorail around Llanelli in the late 1960s/ early 1970s was that it was always Carflats; there were less significant flows to Swansea and Carmarthen at different times that used GUVs, IIRC. Definitely no Cartics- I did see some at Burry Port in the 1980s, when Marcroft were fitting roofs to Silcocks' wagons for Ford traffic.

There were never very many BR-owned Cartics; I doubt if there were more than ten in total.

I heard a similar tale about misplaced cars in France; a working with cars only to Nice and Perpignan likewise had the portions sent in the wrong order. Sadly, there seem to be fewer and fewer Motorail-type workings on mainland Europe. When I started out with Eurotunnel, 20 years ago, our Friday teatime workings would be crammed with Brits heading for the Calais terminal; now the terminal's a car park.

[Padishar Creel]

Did Newton-Le-Willows not have a motorail terminal at one point? Was it not in use for motorail at all between the 1960s and 1990s? I didn't see it mentioned in the timetables shown there

Hallo,

1970 brochure as well. Queue a chance to unashamebly (is that a word?) reminisce

I remember doing the N-le-W to Stirling in both directions and it was probably 1970 as we moved from the area in 1971.

There was a restaurant car on the service, and my father had to "reserve seats" as we boarded. It was 1st come 1st served. For a 9yr old it was something special travelling 1st class and eating on the train. In Stirling on the return journey travelling south we watched the carflats being marshalled before being rounded up for the departure.

 

es grüßt

pc

[luckymucklebackit]

Was there not a Stirlng/Perth) to Inverness Motorail service at one time, introduced because of the state of the A9, possibly the shortest of the Motorail routes.

 

jim

[Gwiwer]

AIUI Newton-le-Willows was chosen as a location convenient for both Manchester and Liverpool neither of which had a really suitable location for docking and unloading the cars.  

 

In later years GWT adopted side-loading direct to and from the platforms at Paddington and Penzance though the costs made the attempt at reviving the service uninviting to say the least.  It was cheaper to drive down even if that included an overnight stop and accommodation for a car-load at the likes of Exeter Services.  But a noble try nonetheless.  Side-loading for Motorail at Penzance was restricted to platform 4 after the removal of the Fruit Dock and sidings previously used.

[Fat Controller]

AIUI Newton-le-Willows was chosen as a location convenient for both Manchester and Liverpool neither of which had a really suitable location for docking and unloading the cars.  

 

In later years GWT adopted side-loading direct to and from the platforms at Paddington and Penzance though the costs made the attempt at reviving the service uninviting to say the least.  It was cheaper to drive down even if that included an overnight stop and accommodation for a car-load at the likes of Exeter Services.  But a noble try nonetheless.  Side-loading for Motorail at Penzance was restricted to platform 4 after the removal of the Fruit Dock and sidings previously used.

The economics of running a car-carrying service using written-down flat wagons carrying four or five cars each were pretty awful; those for using expensively converted vehicles, each carrying three cars don't bear thinking about.

One thing that must have affected the viability of the mainland European services were height restrictions. We looked at using an SNCB service between 'somewhere near Bruxelles' and Italy, but were told that our Picasso was one centimetre too high. Similar restrictions would have applied to Renault Scenics and many other types, as well as to lower vehicles which would normally carry roof-racks or 'Granny Boxes'.

[Swindon 123]

I can remember travelling on the Newton-le-Willows to Newton Abbot motorail as a kid in about 1970. I'n sure it ran via the North & West via Hereford.. Have some very brief shots of the return train at Newton Abbot on a family film and they where carflats. When I moved to Hereford in 1984, Hereford traincrew still had a job to work a motorail from Hereford to Bristol on a Saturday. Only worked it a couple of times before it finished. I don't think it lasted into the 1985 season and I can't remember its originating point or destination.

 

Paul J.

[Phil Bullock]

I can remember travelling on the Newton-le-Willows to Newton Abbot motorail as a kid in about 1970. I'n sure it ran via the North & West via Hereford.. Have some very brief shots of the return train at Newton Abbot on a family film and they where carflats. When I moved to Hereford in 1984, Hereford traincrew still had a job to work a motorail from Hereford to Bristol on a Saturday. Only worked it a couple of times before it finished. I don't think it lasted into the 1985 season and I can't remember its originating point or destination.Paul J.

Think you are correct in that routing Paul it doesn't appear in my wtts for the brum to Bristol route.

 

So a similar query... Did the Newton Abbott to Stirling working run via new street?

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Enterprisingwestern]

Theres a british transport film which covers motorail very closely quite an eye opener.

You've certainly got my attention, which one please?

 

Mike.

[Phil Bullock]

Think it's motorsport goes motorail... Birmingham car club outing to Devon iirc

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

My memories of seeing the Fishguard Motorail around Llanelli in the late 1960s/ early 1970s was that it was always Carflats; there were less significant flows to Swansea and Carmarthen at different times that used GUVs, IIRC. Definitely no Cartics- I did see some at Burry Port in the 1980s, when Marcroft were fitting roofs to Silcocks' wagons for Ford traffic.

There were never very many BR-owned Cartics; I doubt if there were more than ten in total.

I heard a similar tale about misplaced cars in France; a working with cars only to Nice and Perpignan likewise had the portions sent in the wrong order. Sadly, there seem to be fewer and fewer Motorail-type workings on mainland Europe. When I started out with Eurotunnel, 20 years ago, our Friday teatime workings would be crammed with Brits heading for the Calais terminal; now the terminal's a car park.

 

The Fishguard and the West of England services (as complete trains, not the attached GUVs on ordinary services) were all Carflats and always remained so as the WR provincial terminals had no facilities for handling double deck car carrying vehicles and - as far as I know - never did.  Reading could only side load so any trains which worked there, e.g. the Fishguard service, had to have Carflats (although it could also have handled GUVs).

[AberdeenBill]

Brockenhurst to Stirling used rail-blue Carflats and featured, I think, the only regular appearance of sleeping cars on the Southern Region. 

 

Bill

[Gwiwer]

Brockenhurst to Stirling ..... the only regular appearance of sleeping cars on the Southern Region. 

 

Bill

 

 

Negative.

 

There was a timetabled Bournemouth - Edinburgh sleeping / seated overnight train for a few years more recently than the Motorail and using Mk3 sleepers.  The Motorail used Mk 1 sleepers.  The Bournemouth was a portion attached to another IC Cross-Country sector working.  IIRC that was a Bristol - Glasgow with the two running combined as one train between Birmingham and Carstairs.