Stewarts & Lloyds wagons 1923-1945

[Down_Under]

 

 

9 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Sorry, I don't follow - it always was STEWARTS & LLOYDS; never "Stewart & Lloyd".

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

My applogies John, you are correct.

 

It was the way the last "S" of Stewarts and first "L" of Lloyds appear in the middle creates a bit of a optical illusion.

 

 

 

 

[Keegs]

@Alex TM Not sure If still of interest but I've found some other wagons at the station at Leamington that appear to be 7 or more planks they also state "TUBES" on the bottom RH side, no date though sorry(Appears to be Prewar due to GWR changing to White Lamp bodies in the 30s):

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls166a.htm

[Sitham Yard]

19 hours ago, Keegs said:

@Alex TM Not sure If still of interest but I've found some other wagons at the station at Leamington that appear to be 7 or more planks they also state "TUBES" on the bottom RH side, no date though sorry(Appears to be Prewar due to GWR changing to White Lamp bodies in the 30s):

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls166a.htm

The acquired wagons of British Railways Volume 3 by David Larkin has photos of two similar wagons in BR days but with most of their livery visible. He states that although side doors were fitted they were not required as the wagons were unloaded at Corby by rotary tippler and the side doors were at some stage fixed closed.

Andrew 

[Keegs]

Sorry if this is reviving a dead thread but I didn't want to create another with the same subject.

 

It seems we've lost alot of photos after "The Purge" so I can't be sure if these have been posted previously.

 

At any rate these are some more photos I have dug up. This is of great interest to me because there were some heavy freight trains in the area I am going to model.

 

This is an odd diagram Iron Ore Hopper from as picture dated "Shortly before the war" that I haven't been able to find any info on apart from this picture, it doesn't have any vertical surfaces on the side(From by "Paddington to the Mercy" by Hendry and Hendry):

 

 

Lastly a rare colour shot pulled from the Transport library of Bulldog class "Kingfisher" in 1936:

 

Edited January 6 by Keegs

[Mark Saunders]

It was a popular design and was supplied by Charles Roberts to several Iron Works.

 

 

[Keegs]

22 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

It was a popular design and was supplied by Charles Roberts to several Iron Works.

 

 

Thanks Mark, that's excellent!

 

Do you have any information on a diagram number or the Capacity? Struggling to find any more information the only one that turns up is the Diagram 161 that was built in 1949.

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Keegs said:

Thanks Mark, that's excellent!

 

Do you have any information on a diagram number or the Capacity? Struggling to find any more information the only one that turns up is the Diagram 161 that was built in 1949.

 

As it's a PO wagon, it won't have a BR diagram as such; ie. 1/??? or 2/???.

 

PO wagons were, at some point (not known to me), given diagram numbers by BR in the Book 6 series; ie. Diagram 6/??? in our parlance.

 

I am unaware as to whether this particular design ever received a 6/??? diagram number.

 

John Isherwood.

[Keegs]

And another photo of a S & L Ore train:

 

This is from a Key Model World article so apologies if it's paywalled:

 

"With a heavy rake of wagons loaded with iron ore behind, GWR ‘Mogul’ 4329 passes Southam Road & Harbury in 1932. P.W. Robinson/Rail Archive Stephenson."

 

Long may the treasure hunt continue (Even if it's just me still hunting!)

 

Cheers,

Kegan

[Mol_PMB]

I had a hunt through my shelf of wagon books and failed to find any useful info on these to add to the thread, sadly. David Monk-Steel’s recent book on BR hopper wagons doesn’t mention them, although some other inherited types are included. 
Mol

[Mark Saunders]

These were one of the early all steel 20 ton hoppers but I expect that they didn't survive in mainline use post war and there were examples at Millom and Workington postwar.

 

 

[Compound2632]

12 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

These were one of the early all steel 20 ton hoppers

 

Are these photos dated? The Bell Brothers one is evidently pre-1923, being marked N.E.R.

[Mol_PMB]

Bill Hudson's PO Wagons volume 4, plate 92, shows a similar wagon for Millom Iron Works.

(I knew I had a picture of a wagon like these somewhere in my library, but it took some finding!)

It appears to be exactly in accordance to the drawing posted by Mark above, but not identical to any of the wagons pictured in this thread. Capacity is 20 tons, ordered from Chas Roberts in 1937, tare 9-2-3. 

The book includes a dimensioned drawing on the following page but this is for a slightly different type of hopper with a parallel-sided section at the top. Dimensions given for plate 92 appear to be taken from this drawing but are different from those in Mark's drawing above, so may not be applicable to the entirely slope-sided version pictured.

 

The same book also includes the same photo of Carnforth 238 posted by Mark (Plate 86) as well as a similar earlier vehicle Carnforth 201 (Plate 85). 201-220 were ordered in November 1907, 221-232 in March 1910, and 233-240 in April 1914. Capacity was 15 tons and these vehicles are more squat in dimensions than the Stewarts and Lloyds or Millom versions.

 

The Bell Brothers wagon appears in Bill Hudson's PO Wagons volume 1, plate 1. This was a one-off order and was registered in 1911. Again it's 15 tons capacity and of squatter dimensions than the Stewarts and Lloyds or Millom versions.

 

Mol

[Mark Saunders]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Are these photos dated? The Bell Brothers one is evidently pre-1923, being marked N.E.R.

BR were still using pregouping companies on instructions till well into the 60’s.

The up and down midland at Leeds only gained the names in the 1990’s modernisation & resignalling.

[Compound2632]

50 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

BR were still using pregouping companies on instructions till well into the 60’s.

The up and down midland at Leeds only gained the names in the 1990’s modernisation & resignalling.

 

I'm afraid that has minimal bearing on PO wagon lettering. From looking at many photos, it seems that on new PO wagons built and old ones repainted from 1923 onwards, the new group initials were generally used in place of the old company initials, though no doubt there were exceptions, especially in 1923/4. So use of pre-grouping company initials on a wagon in a works photo is a pretty good guide to date.

[21D]

Hi!

 

Just discovered this thread. Page 40 of the book ‘British Railway Goods Wagons in colour’ by Robert Hendry (Midland Publishing 1999) contains a broadside colour view of one of the batch of 40 iron ore tipplers built for Stewart & Lloyd by BC&W and Hurst Nelson in 1940. These seem to have a 10 foot wheelbase and similar underframe to LNER large coal hoppers. They pre-dated the smaller LMS/BR tippler design by five years.

 

Midland Publishing are part of Ian Allan so the photo is copyright but if you are desperate to see it the book is on Abe Books for £8. Actually it’s a very good book full of colour pics and some 4 mm plans of sundry goods wagons from the 19th century on.

 

Regards

 

Martin

[Mark Saunders]

On 09/02/2024 at 16:29, 21D said:

 colour view of one of the batch of 40 iron ore tipplers built for Stewart & Lloyd by BC&W and Hurst Nelson in 1940. These seem to have a 10 foot wheelbase and similar underframe to LNER large coal hoppers. They pre-dated the smaller LMS/BR tippler design by five years.

 

These wagons had RCH brake gear rather than NER/LNER style with and the drawings for these are in the NRM Charles Roberts drawing collection at York. This design was also built for Lancashire Steel at Irlam that was also part of S&L.