East Coast Mainline Blockade for Werrington Junction diveunder

[Crun]

Sunday 8th May

 

Views of the brook or drain at Cock Lane looking north:

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Crun

[Mike Storey]

20 hours ago, woodenhead said:

However, this will be underwritten by HM Government as it's paymaster, they will expect it to apply rigorous mitigation against accidents for which it can avoid.

 

Ultimately, I guess, that's true. But in practice, an amount is held in "contingency" for this each year. If not used, it is rolled over, so the amount has been "underwritten" (other than for inflation, or re-estimation under the Ogden formula) for many decades. Only in major accidents, like Hatfield or Paddington, would it need reviewing with HMG and/or the ORR.

 

As for Werrington Jn, I suspect the major fencing investment is due to a couple of things - 

 

1. the likely use of the surrounding area for further recreational use

2. The very high incidence of vandalism, trespass and other misdemeanours in the city itself.

 

As I recall, when I initially sponsored the Hitchin Flyover scheme, there was far less provision in the way of anti-trespass measures. 

 

 

[phil-b259]

On 07/05/2022 at 13:02, The Stationmaster said:

 

The only reason the g fencing is now viewed from the opposite direction and for keeping people off the railway is entirely down to the stupid British public far too many of whom seem to have smaller brains, and much less common sense, than our cats 

 

Actually its more due to the British Legal System!

 

If the law took the view that people getting killed / injured while being where they shouldn't be was their own fault then things would be very different.

 

Instead there is a very lucrative legal legal industry only too happy to argue that keeping idiots safe is the responsibility of everyone other than said idiot.

[Mike Storey]

19 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Actually its more due to the British Legal System!

 

If the law took the view that people getting killed / injured while being where they shouldn't be was their own fault then things would be very different.

 

Instead there is a very lucrative legal legal industry only too happy to argue that keeping idiots safe is the responsibility of everyone other than said idiot.

 

I don't really agree with that. The "law", as in a Coroner's Inquest, has to find a contributory factor. For example, in the case of the three graffiti artists killed at Loughborough Junction a few years ago, the Verdict was "accidental death", because the three had scaled a six foot fence to gain access. No gates left unlocked, no broken fencing etc. So there was no possible claim against the railway.

 

However, some years earlier, a youth had been electrified by the OLE, when climbing on top of a wagon. The Inquest found that a gate to the yard had been left unlocked or open, so that the railway was partially to blame.

 

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

I don't really agree with that. The "law", as in a Coroner's Inquest, has to find a contributory factor. For example, in the case of the three graffiti artists killed at Loughborough Junction a few years ago, the Verdict was "accidental death", because the three had scaled a six foot fence to gain access. No gates left unlocked, no broken fencing etc. So there was no possible claim against the railway.

 

However, some years earlier, a youth had been electrified by the OLE, when climbing on top of a wagon. The Inquest found that a gate to the yard had been left unlocked or open, so that the railway was partially to blame.

 

But if there was no requirement in law to fence in railways then a gate being open would have no relevance as a contributing factor - as is the case in most of mainland Europe.

 

We would therefore simply be looking at someone climbing on a wagon when they should know better - and like the persons at Loughborough Junction, should they come into contact with the OLE as a result it would not be the railways fault.

 

Thus fencing in the railways is, in modern, terms, the legal industry effectively demanding we protect idiots from their own idiocy. 

[Mike Storey]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

But if there was no requirement in law to fence in railways then a gate being open would have no relevance as a contributing factor - as is the case in most of mainland Europe.

 

We would therefore simply be looking at someone climbing on a wagon when they should know better - and like the persons at Loughborough Junction, should they come into contact with the OLE as a result it would not be the railways fault.

 

Thus fencing in the railways is, in modern, terms, the legal industry effectively demanding we protect idiots from their own idiocy. 

 

Actually, it was Parliament who decided that (set of) law(s). The legal industry just enforce it. I am not sure what the reaction would be were any political party to campaign on removing the requirement?

 

We have what we have. And, as I have explained, much of Europe is beginning to catch up with us, for various reasons.

 

Back to Werrington Junction, perhaps.

 

[rodent279]

13 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

But if there was no requirement in law to fence in railways then a gate being open would have no relevance as a contributing factor - as is the case in most of mainland Europe.

 

We would therefore simply be looking at someone climbing on a wagon when they should know better - and like the persons at Loughborough Junction, should they come into contact with the OLE as a result it would not be the railways fault.

 

Thus fencing in the railways is, in modern, terms, the legal industry effectively demanding we protect idiots from their own idiocy. 

I'm no lawyer, but I'd expect that approach would run into an "all reasonably practical measures" argument-have all reasonable measures been taken to prevent access? As railways are already fenced, any gap in fencing and/or gates left unlocked or open would be seen to be in breach of that.

 

And anyway, for me, the argument should not be about who's at fault for what, it should be about prevention of accidents, regardless of whether they are self-inflicted.

Edited May 10, 2022 by rodent279

[corneliuslundie]

But the very concept of organisations having to take "all reasonable practicable measures" is pretty modern, and is also extremely subjective as the "practicable" aspect must always include cost.

But I have disrupted this thread long enough.

I am looking forward to the day when the contractors eventually leave site and our intrepid reporters can have a holiday, even though I have much appreciate their posts during the work. Perhaps we can find a new project for them now that they have honed their skills.

Jonathan

[Titan]

I think too many take a narrow view of this.  I already had this discussion with a colleague, who like many thought that the railway should not spend money on saving idiots.  I also don't mind if idiots want to demonstrate Darwins theory, however the bigger picture is that when someone kills themselves on the railway the problem is far bigger than merely a legal one.  There is disruption to services, possibly damage to repair, all of which is costly and something to be avoided.  If they are stupid enough to kill themselves, then we still have to try and make sure they don't do it on the railway as the railway has a responsibility to avoid disruption if it can, which trumps giving someone the opportunity to eliminate themselves from the gene pool.

[Crun]

On 30/04/2022 at 20:21, Donington Road said:

 

Glad to see you walking down there John, the more people do that then it will flatten the rough ground out to make it easier walking for us oldies.👍

If you thought Cock Lane bridge is a bit uninviting then keep away from Walton footbridge, you need a stab vest and a personal body guard if you go there.😟

It is quite amazing the different type of clientel that pass through those five bridges around Werrington Junction (Walton, Cock Lane, Hurn Road, Lincoln Road and Foxcovert Road).

The busiest time for the dive under use at the moment is mornings and afternoons.  There is some action of the dive under on my lastest video if you want to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5__Kp_tt5HI

 

Is there any chance of people being chased off this 'path' by an angry farmer? I thought I might try to explore it in the next few days. 

[Donington Road]

9 hours ago, Crun said:

Is there any chance of people being chased off this 'path' by an angry farmer? I thought I might try to explore it in the next few days. 

 

Give it a try and see, then report back to us all, I'm sure A&E has wi-fi.😀

[melmerby]

On 10/05/2022 at 08:54, corneliuslundie said:

 

I am looking forward to the day when the contractors eventually leave site and our intrepid reporters can have a holiday, even though I have much appreciate their posts during the work. Perhaps we can find a new project for them now that they have honed their skills.

Jonathan

I rather hoped we might be able to persuade them pedal over to the the eastern leg of East West Rail, when(if?) it ever gets started.👍

[Richard E]

23 hours ago, Donington Road said:

 

Give it a try and see, then report back to us all, I'm sure A&E has wi-fi.😀

 

I did today!

 

And I've survived. Got some pictures around the site but I'm afraid those will have to wait until tomorrow. Also details of a slightly easier way to get to the corner of the new compound by the north portal than using the 15' wide 'path' between the fence and the new 'hedgerow' ...

[Richard E]

As promised:

 

Start with the remnants of the Morgan Sindall representation on site there are these container 'offices' at Lincoln Road.

 

 

Within the area are these security cameras.

 

 

 

Under the A15 and the graffiti folk have been busy, these are rather good in their way but being spoilt by mindless tagging.

 

 

 

 

There are two ways to get close to the north portal of the dive under - that discussed a couple of posts above or, going a little further along Hurn Road, there is this access track to the new Network Rail compound. There are also some very good views of the ECML from the bit of Hurn Road between the bungalow and this track.

 

 

And here is a view from the footbridge with that track in the foreground and the compound in the centre distance.

 

 

The view of the north portal from the top corner of the field (just off middle left of the photo above) is quite good too especially when that stray fence panel at the top of the steps is moved (or just move to the right and use a longer lens).

 

 

There has also been some tidying up around the bungalow that was built to replace the old crossing keepers house. The fence has been altered too so now there is no easy way in.

 

 

Although I don't have any pictures I also looked at the track that runs past the stables, alas Heras fencing and padlocked gates are still blocking that although I did see a couple of walkers towards the Bretton end on the EA access portion.

 

And, for now, as they say in the movies "That's All Folks".

[Donington Road]

3 hours ago, Richard E said:

Under the A15 and the graffiti folk have been busy, these are rather good in their way but being spoilt by mindless tagging.

 

I am not even going to repeat those photos, the whole lot is just mindless vandalism as far as I am concerned, that and litter blighting our neighbourhood and country makes my blood boil.🤬  I have already been back there in an evening with a brush and binliner to sweep up broken beer bottles.

 

3 hours ago, Richard E said:

There are two ways to get close to the north portal of the dive under - that discussed a couple of posts above or, going a little further along Hurn Road, there is this access track to the new Network Rail compound. There are also some very good views of the ECML from the bit of Hurn Road between the bungalow and this track.

 

 

About the same distance to walk either way I suspect Richard.

 

3 hours ago, Richard E said:

There has also been some tidying up around the bungalow that was built to replace the old crossing keepers house. The fence has been altered too so now there is no easy way in.

 

 

Good to see that the bungalow has been cleaned up at last and made more presentable.  It just needs some appreciative occupants to bring it back to life.

 

[Richard E]

3 hours ago, Donington Road said:

 

I am not even going to repeat those photos, the whole lot is just mindless vandalism as far as I am concerned, that and litter blighting our neighbourhood and country makes my blood boil.🤬  I have already been back there in an evening with a brush and binliner to sweep up broken beer bottles.

 

 

About the same distance to walk either way I suspect Richard.

 

 

Good to see that the bungalow has been cleaned up at last and made more presentable.  It just needs some appreciative occupants to bring it back to life.

 

The graffiti is vandalism, I agree, but there is some skill and artistic merit in these hence my neutral, I hope, stance. I'd rather not see this 'damage' to property belonging to others though and, as such, I don't condone it. It would be better in a place where work like this has been agreed by the 'powers that be'. I'd agree more strongly about the 'tagging' and general litter, I was brought up to take my litter home with me and to respect other persons property. I believe it is a minority that cause the problem even if it is quite a significant minority but it is very visible.

 

As for distance I agree it is probably about the same distance but rather less in vegetation and uneven ground if you use the access track.

 

I'm not hopeful for the future of the bungalow ...

[Donington Road]

2 minutes ago, Richard E said:

The graffiti is vandalism, I agree, but there is some skill and artistic merit in these hence my neutral, I hope, stance. I'd rather not see this 'damage' to property belonging to others though and, as such, I don't condone it. It would be better in a place where work like this has been agreed by the 'powers that be'. I'd agree more strongly about the 'tagging' and general litter, I was brought up to take my litter home with me and to respect other persons property. I believe it is a minority that cause the problem even if it is quite a significant minority but it is very visible.

 

As for distance I agree it is probably about the same distance but rather less in vegetation and uneven ground if you use the access track.

 

I'm not hopeful for the future of the bungalow ...

 

Please don't think my original comment was aimed towards you Richard.  I am greatful like everyone else for the photos you posted but I just don't want to give those graffiti vandals any more exposure that they crave for.

 

I think it would be better using the track with my bike as I feel it would be safer leaving it nearer the compound rather than near the A15.  I did walk about 100 yards from the A15 end with my bike a few weeks ago but it was hard going.  Leaving the bike chained up is not an option, by the time I have heard the angle grider it would take me half a day to 'sprint' back and the culprits would be long gone.

 

Network Rail could demolish the bungalow and use the land to build a new footbridge that is accessible to everyone rather than just younger and fitter people.

[John Tomlinson]

On 11/05/2022 at 14:04, Crun said:

Is there any chance of people being chased off this 'path' by an angry farmer? I thought I might try to explore it in the next few days. 

Two points on this.

 

I didn't go through any gates or fences to walk along the fence by the new lines.

 

About 6 or 7 metres from the fence by the new lines a row of trees has been planted, making the strip of land that you walk on not really available for farming. Who actually owns the land I don't know.

 

I wait with hope for some more trains to start using the underpass. This doesn't seem to have happened as yet, according to Real Time Trains.

 

John.

[Crun]

Saturday 14th May

Views of some new mesh fencing panels at Cock Lane bridge:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Crun

[Crun]

Distant views of the new mesh panels:

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Crun

[Crun]

Some activity on the western side of the tracks, looking south from Hurn Road bridge:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Crun

[Richard E]

13 minutes ago, Crun said:

Saturday 14th May

Views of some new mesh fencing panels at Cock Lane bridge:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, that makes sense of the tabs then.

[Richard E]

16 hours ago, Donington Road said:

 

Please don't think my original comment was aimed towards you Richard.  I am greatful like everyone else for the photos you posted but I just don't want to give those graffiti vandals any more exposure that they crave for.

 

I think it would be better using the track with my bike as I feel it would be safer leaving it nearer the compound rather than near the A15.  I did walk about 100 yards from the A15 end with my bike a few weeks ago but it was hard going.  Leaving the bike chained up is not an option, by the time I have heard the angle grinder it would take me half a day to 'sprint' back and the culprits would be long gone.

 

Network Rail could demolish the bungalow and use the land to build a new footbridge that is accessible to everyone rather than just younger and fitter people.

 

I didn't think it was, I take your point about exposure - however I doubt they are on here looking at our scribblings!

 

I'd agree about leaving the bike. In fact I thought some of the armco concrete footings didn't look that secure and I'm half expecting someone to have bits of that away in due course.

[corneliuslundie]

That  mesh is both ugly and surely pointless - and even more expense for the taxpayer. Were they expecting vandals to squeeze between the bars?

Jonathan

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

That  mesh is both ugly and surely pointless - and even more expense for the taxpayer. Were they expecting vandals to squeeze between the bars?

Jonathan

 

More likely poke something through them. One of these telescoping paint roller things for example...