East Coast Mainline Blockade for Werrington Junction diveunder

[jamie92208]

Can I say a big thank you to all contributors to this thread, particularly to Donnington Road and he fellow photographers.  It has been fascinating to follow the scheme and see it emerge from what looked like a sea of mud to a working railway.

 

Jamie

Edited July 6, 2022 by jamie92208

[Donington Road]

3 hours ago, 31A said:

If anyone is interested in travelling over the dive under lines, a chum identified a pair of regular trains which is booked to do that; 2K17 1454 Doncaster-Peterborough and the return working,  2K24 1710 Peterborough-Lincoln.  The clues seem to be that passing times are given in Real Time Trains for Glinton Jn. and Marholm Jn. (not shown for other Joint Line passenger trains), and it uses Platform 7 at Peterborough rather than Platform 1.

 

On Tuesday we set out to do that, joining 2K17 at Lincoln, and approaching Werrington it .... stayed on the old line and ended up in Platform 1!  Looking back in Real Time Trains it seems to be about 50:50 which route it takes, so a more reliable way to get the new line might be to turn up at Peterborough station at about 1700 and see which platform the Lincoln train is in.

 

I presume it is done for route knowledge retention purposes, as we could see nothing at Peterborough which would dictate that it had to use one platform rather than the other.

 

It is the only booked passenger service throughout the day that is intended to use the dive under.  As you have worked out from the timetable there seems to be no logical reason why that particular working should need to use platform 7 instead of the usual platform 1.  There are other (non booked) Joint Line passenger services that often use the dive under due to operational problems between Werrington Junction and Peterborough on the Up Slow, mainly due to freight being held whilst awaiting a path into New England yards.

 

As for your particular working on Tuesday there was no blockage on the Up Stamford so why it was routed to platform 1 remains a mystery.

I still think PSB use a dart board with a wonky set of darts to choose which route to use next.😀

Edited July 1, 2022 by Donington Road

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, 31A said:

If anyone is interested in travelling over the dive under lines, a chum identified a pair of regular trains which is booked to do that; 2K17 1454 Doncaster-Peterborough and the return working,  2K24 1710 Peterborough-Lincoln.  The clues seem to be that passing times are given in Real Time Trains for Glinton Jn. and Marholm Jn. (not shown for other Joint Line passenger trains), and it uses Platform 7 at Peterborough rather than Platform 1.

 

On Tuesday we set out to do that, joining 2K17 at Lincoln, and approaching Werrington it .... stayed on the old line and ended up in Platform 1!  Looking back in Real Time Trains it seems to be about 50:50 which route it takes, so a more reliable way to get the new line might be to turn up at Peterborough station at about 1700 and see which platform the Lincoln train is in.

 

I presume it is done for route knowledge retention purposes, as we could see nothing at Peterborough which would dictate that it had to use one platform rather than the other.

Yesterday & Wednesday it used platform 7/Marholm junction:☹️

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P53437/2022-06-29/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P53437/2022-06-30/detailed#allox_id=0

[Donington Road]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Can I eay a big thank you to all contributors to this thread, particularly to Donni gton Road and he fellow photographers.  It has been fascinating to follow the scheme and see it emerge from what loojed like a sea of mud to a working railway.

 

Jamie

 

Thank you Jamie.  I'm sure Crun, Richard E and a few other local people who have contributed to this thread have enjoyed watching and documenting this project, but above all it has been the positive feedback from everyone here that has made this such nice journey.

We locals were the lucky ones that had this on our doorstep and being contained to a relative small area it was fairly easy to capture all the things going on, perhaps documenting it in finer detail than would have been possible with a much larger project, plus being retired myself and not having work commitments it filled my spare time.  To some extent it was a shame that Covid came along and spoiled the party at crucial times of construction, but overall I think we all managed to put together an interesting read.

[Crun]

Railcam is live now at Hurn Road bridge Werrington Junction waiting for a newly repainted 91127:

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Crun

[keefer]

 

[melmerby]

Shucks.

At first I thought there was a new fixed camera position, that hadn't been pre-announced.☹️

[Donington Road]

On 01/07/2022 at 13:12, melmerby said:

Yesterday & Wednesday it used platform 7/Marholm junction:☹️

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P53437/2022-06-29/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P53437/2022-06-30/detailed#allox_id=0

 

You can't always rely on RTT to get it right either.😀

This evening while doing some video, 2K23 used the dive under, Glinton Junction and Marholm Junction so there should be no record of it at Werrington Junction, yet RTT reported it on the Slow Line at 19:43.

It did make sense though sending it that way to the west side of the station as it then formed the 20:12 Peterborough to Nottingham via Stamford.

 

[Donington Road]

10 hours ago, melmerby said:

Shucks.

At first I thought there was a new fixed camera position, that hadn't been pre-announced.☹️

 

You'll have to keep putting up with my belated videos from Hurn Road, can't have these young Railcam upstarts muscling in on our sacred ground! 😀😀😀

 

At least they tried their best in the terrible windy conditions we seem to be experiencing more then ever here.👍

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Donington Road

[melmerby]

36 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

 

You can't always rely on RTT to get it right either.😀

This evening while doing some video, 2K23 used the dive under, Glinton Junction and Marholm Junction so there should be no record of it at Werrington Junction, yet RTT reported it on the Slow Line at 19:43.

It did make sense though sending it that way to the west side of the station as it then formed the 20:12 Peterborough to Nottingham via Stamford.

 

That's strange as the data comes straight from NR, supposedly automatically from their system.

Would've been interesting to see how it tracked on the signal berths.

 

EDIT

It was originally scheduled for Plat 2B

Edited July 5, 2022 by melmerby

[Donington Road]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

That's strange as the data comes straight from NR, supposedly automatically from their system.

Would've been interesting to see how it tracked on the signal berths.

 

Railcam tracked it right so that is why I was prepared for it emerging from the dive under at Cock Lane.

[Shwam3]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Would've been interesting to see how it tracked on the signal berths.

As follows (as normal for an up direction diveunder train):

[05/07/22 19:38:05] CA 2K23 PBSTIN PB0864
[05/07/22 19:39:54] CA 2K23 PB0864 PB0490
[05/07/22 19:42:01] CA 2K23 PB0490 PB0488
[05/07/22 19:42:53] CA 2K23 PB0488 PB0476
[05/07/22 19:48:01] CA 2K23 PB0476 PB0470
[05/07/22 19:48:55] CA 2K23 PB0470 PB0444

 

The time at Werrington Junction was entered manually after the fact for some reason.
 

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

 

Railcam tracked it right so that is why I was prepared for it emerging from the dive under at Cock Lane.

That's direct from NR data as well.

Theoretically they can't both be right! Normally if a train goes via the diveunder when scheduled via Werrington Jn it comes up "No Report"

[Donington Road]

1 minute ago, melmerby said:

Normally if a train goes via the diveunder when scheduled via Werrington Jn it comes up "No Report"

 

That is correct, it went passed New England North and that was quoted as No Report so RTT certainly got screwed up somewhere.

[melmerby]

7 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

 

That is correct, it went passed New England North and that was quoted as No Report so RTT certainly got screwed up somewhere.

Not just RTT as Railcam's Data also shows it, so I assume someone in the signalling centre did it.

It's Railcam that the scheduled platform shows a s 2B but actual platform is 5.

 

Platform 5 Makes more sense as using 2B means crossing the ECML tracks to get to the Stamford line

[Donington Road]

18 minutes ago, Shwam3 said:

As follows (as normal for an up direction diveunder train):

[05/07/22 19:38:05] CA 2K23 PBSTIN PB0864
[05/07/22 19:39:54] CA 2K23 PB0864 PB0490
[05/07/22 19:42:01] CA 2K23 PB0490 PB0488
[05/07/22 19:42:53] CA 2K23 PB0488 PB0476
[05/07/22 19:48:01] CA 2K23 PB0476 PB0470
[05/07/22 19:48:55] CA 2K23 PB0470 PB0444

 

The time at Werrington Junction was entered manually after the fact for some reason.
 

 

The arrival time is two minutes earlier at PB0444 than RRT quoted.

[melmerby]

14 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

 

The arrival time is two minutes earlier at PB0444 than RRT quoted.

Fiddling the minutes for compensation?😄

[Donington Road]

16 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Not just RTT as Railcam's Data also shows it, so I assume someone in the signalling centre did it.

It's Railcam that the scheduled platform shows a s 2B but actual platform is 5.

 

Platform 5 Makes more sense as using 2B means crossing the ECML tracks to get to the Stamford line

 

............and the timetabled 17:10 departure to Lincoln via the dive under from platform 5 was today at platform 2 and went via the overland route at Werrington Junction.

That dartboard and wonky darts are still in use it seems!

[Richard E]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

Fiddling the minutes for compensation?😄

Been there, seen that, had the argument, got the T shirt ...

[stivesnick]

Not quite Werrington Dive under but adjacent....

 

Was anyone around the site Monday afternoon 11 July? From what I understand waiting at Peterborough Station and passing the site around 14.30ish:

 

A GBRF freight with open box wagons failed on the crossover at New England North Junction. Not clear if the train was actually fouling the down fast line  a a fair distance between this and the Up Stamford Line, however all down ECML trains were using the down slow/down Stamford route with minor delays.   All up trains, a mix of passenger and freight were at a standstill. I assume that this is because once the route had been set and the train was in section, it was not possible to reset the system. Is that correct? In this case the up lines were not blocked, so would it have been possible for a manual override to get things moving again?  

 

My other question is, given there is a GBRF depot in New England Yard how quickly could a rescue loco be sent out to clear the line? 

 

By the way, I suffered another freight train failure yesterday at Carlisle when the Colas timber train failed near Armathwaite (around 13.10 according to RTT). The first passenger train south did not leave Carlisle until 16.40. So 3.5 hours for a rescue. 

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

 

[Donington Road]

37 minutes ago, stivesnick said:

Not quite Werrington Dive under but adjacent....

 

Was anyone around the site Monday afternoon 11 July? From what I understand waiting at Peterborough Station and passing the site around 14.30ish:

 

A GBRF freight with open box wagons failed on the crossover at New England North Junction. Not clear if the train was actually fouling the down fast line  a a fair distance between this and the Up Stamford Line, however all down ECML trains were using the down slow/down Stamford route with minor delays.   All up trains, a mix of passenger and freight were at a standstill. I assume that this is because once the route had been set and the train was in section, it was not possible to reset the system. Is that correct? In this case the up lines were not blocked, so would it have been possible for a manual override to get things moving again?  

 

My other question is, given there is a GBRF depot in New England Yard how quickly could a rescue loco be sent out to clear the line? 

 

By the way, I suffered another freight train failure yesterday at Carlisle when the Colas timber train failed near Armathwaite (around 13.10 according to RTT). The first passenger train south did not leave Carlisle until 16.40. So 3.5 hours for a rescue. 

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

 

 

A freight did indeed fail whilst crossing from the Up Stamford to New England yard fouling the Down Fast, Up Fast, Up Slow and entrance/exit from the yards.  The only route not blocked was the Down Stamford/Down ECML so north bound ECML services were using that as far as Helpston Junction.

I was lucky to be at Cock Lane for a while to video the resulting chaos.

If you read the comments section you will see one of my regular subscribers Ben GBRf had something to do with it all.😄

 

 

[Mike Storey]

58 minutes ago, stivesnick said:

 

A GBRF freight with open box wagons failed on the crossover at New England North Junction. Not clear if the train was actually fouling the down fast line  a a fair distance between this and the Up Stamford Line, however all down ECML trains were using the down slow/down Stamford route with minor delays.   All up trains, a mix of passenger and freight were at a standstill. I assume that this is because once the route had been set and the train was in section, it was not possible to reset the system. Is that correct? In this case the up lines were not blocked, so would it have been possible for a manual override to get things moving again?  

 

My other question is, given there is a GBRF depot in New England Yard how quickly could a rescue loco be sent out to clear the line? 

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

 

 

No, it's not possible to re-set the system. If the route is locked and set for the move the train would have made, it would require a whole team to go out, re-wind the points, lock and block any facing ones and post someone to flag each signal affected, before anything could move. Such a team is just not waiting to go into action, so it would take an hour or two (probably) to assemble them, make clear what has to be done and who will do which part, and then get to site. (You may well do all that for a derailment or similar.) Probably quicker to fix the loco (a travelling fitter used to be based at Pboro, not sure now, and not sure whether he/she would be competent on freight locos), or tow the train clear.

 

Not sure whether a Thunderbird-style rescue loco is still based at Pboro. One used to be, many years ago. But even if a crew-less loco was stabled in New England at the time, it could take a while to get a spare driver to it.

 

PS - I see from the above post (which beat me to it) that the train was cleared of the route after 90 mins, which suggests either they fixed it or they got a tow.

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Mike Storey

[Richard E]

47 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

No, it's not possible to re-set the system. If the route is locked and set for the move the train would have made, it would require a whole team to go out, re-wind the points, lock and block any facing ones and post someone to flag each signal affected, before anything could move. Such a team is just not waiting to go into action, so it would take an hour or two (probably) to assemble them, make clear what has to be done and who will do which part, and then get to site. (You may well do all that for a derailment or similar.) Probably quicker to fix the loco (a travelling fitter used to be based at Pboro, not sure now, and not sure whether he/she would be competent on freight locos), or tow the train clear.

 

Not sure whether a Thunderbird-style rescue loco is still based at Pboro. One used to be, many years ago. But even if a crew-less loco was stabled in New England at the time, it could take a while to get a spare driver to it.

 

PS - I see from the above post (which beat me to it) that the train was cleared of the route after 90 mins, which suggests either they fixed it or they got a tow.

 

No Thunderbird at Peterborough, nearest is, I believe, Doncaster. There may well have been a suitable loco idle though. Not sure about a travelling fitter but GBRF do have a depot in Peterborough at New England North so more likely to have had a fitter attend.

[stivesnick]

3 hours ago, Donington Road said:

A freight did indeed fail whilst crossing from the Up Stamford to New England yard fouling the Down Fast, Up Fast, Up Slow and entrance/exit from the yards.  The only route not blocked was the Down Stamford/Down ECML so north bound ECML services were using that as far as Helpston Junction.

I was lucky to be at Cock Lane for a while to video the resulting chaos.

If you read the comments section you will see one of my regular subscribers Ben GBRf had something to do with it all.😄

 

Thanks for the video. I would have been on one of the northbound LNER trains - I saw the 37 lurking behind another train, so good to know what it was.

 

Nick 

 

[Ray M]

I bet he had Yinging in his ears for hours, after that lot.