PhilMortimer Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) Giles, That is yet to come, as I didn't get any work done on the loco last night, due to a blinding headache. As you suggested, I was intending just to fill the whole square, but it is yet to be done. Probably prior to attaching the running plate to the frames (easier that way). I also need to add the hole in the running plate on the cradle unit - thinking on how to do that! Everyone, Does anyone know a source of bearings that have parallel flats milled into them on opposite sides (so they can slide like hornblocks)? I'm thinking of compensating the inner axle on each engine unit and though it can be done with loose fitting bearings a la Jazz (Ken), I'd prefer to do something a little more elegant, with the bearings not rotating and having some milled L-angle to act as the horns. Also need to think about how I'm going to make the engine pivots........ without a lathe! Edited August 3, 2016 by PhilMortimer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 Work has progressed on fitting the running plates and bufferbeams to the power units. The first pair are complete, though I need to adjust the motion bracket on one of them, which is going to be an interesting exercise! The other pair await my attention. Assembling the frames has proven to be complex and tricky, due to the lack of good alignment markings and large amounts of slop in the slots. Still there is progress. Photo's to follow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 This loco is starting to tax my patience! Two of the power units have gone together well, two seem to have some sort of twist in the frames. They appear to be flat at the upper surface, but not at the bottom. This suggests that there is a dimensional error in the etchings. Careful checking seems to confirm this. However, it was getting late and I had to put this aside and go to bed. I will take a fresh look at it tonight after work. I have to say that I've never had as many problems setting up a chassis as this and it's all getting a tad irritating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I'm afraid it will...... The only consolation to this is that the frames are so flipping weak, all you need to do is lightly grasp each end and give it a gentle twist until it is as straight as you wish. Awful but true. Or at least that's what I did when I had them nice and true on a glass plate, and then later found them out of true (don't know why....). Of course compensating them would be the other way (mine isn't compensated - both are rigid) Re your pivots, if you had a tapered reamer (one of those acutely tapered ones, for enlarging holes, rather than the proper engineering types) you could use the supplied parallel tube, and open out one end of the bearing so it only contacts on a small ridge, allowing this tube to rock in it, perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) Sometimes, you have to just suck it up, admit defeat and start over. So it was with the recalcitrant frames. A fortunate set of circumstances meant that I could get home from work early yesterday, so after sleeping on the problem overnight, I had a good look at the two sets of problematic frames. These (along with the other pair) had all been assembled on a smooth granite block surface, and so should have been square. However, there were definite twists in both of them. I tried twisting the chassis back into shape, but to no avail. in the end, i decided that there was nothing to do bu blow them both apart, clean them up and re-assemble. In both cases, the running plate was removed intact with valances and buffer beams, saving a job of re-assembling those. Then using the microtorch, the cylinder front and rear stretchers were removed, along with the motion bracket (intact). All parts were then cleaned of excess solder and polished up, ready for re-assembly. Any stretchers and frames that needed it were re-straitened. The main cause of the problem turned out to be the frames themselves. The main frames consist of a one piece fold-up etch. The problem was that the folds had occurred on a slight angle on one side, due to overly wide fold lines, leading to twisted frames. I prefer frames with separate spacers and if I were to do this again, I would remove the central spacer and set up the frames conventionally. As it was, folding the frames back to a flat sheet, and then carefully folding back to shape cured the problem. Solder was run into the folds for extra security. Re-assembly occurred in a different order to that originally done. In the former case, the cylinder front and rears and the motion brackets were soldered into the frames, which were then soldered to the buffer beam and running plate. This time around, the motion bracket and cylinder faces were mounted in the frames loosely, without soldering at this stage. The main frames (with the stretchers loosely in place) were then placed upside down on the (upside down) running plate, The frames were carefully aligned to the running plate using a ruler to ensure they were central. Each frame plate was then tack soldered to the running plate, ensuring everything was straight, centered and parallel, before being permanently seam soldered. The cylinder etches and motion bracket were then soldered into place one at a time,to both the frames and the running plate, again carefully checking everything was square and parallel. It was much easier to assemble the frames this way, and resulted in a twist free, straight and parallel chassis. Phew!!! One chassis frame has been completed, the other reduced to its' component parts, as shown below (with rebuilt completed first frame). WF_Garratt_076 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr And the first frame being re-assembled WF_Garratt_075 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr I hope to get the remaining chassis re-assembled tonight after work. One thing that did go right was that the missing hole in the running plate on the RHS of the boiler cradle has now been formed. It is noted in the instructions that this was missing from the etch and needed to be created. No dimensions were supplied for this, so used the ones from Giles Flavell's research. The rectangular hole was created by marking out the dimensions of the final hole and then using the GW rivet press to emboss a series of dimples in the running plate. Small drill holes were then created and gradually opened up until they all merged to give a slot. A diamond file was then used to open the slot up to the correct dimensions. Not difficult, just need to work carefully. The hole is seen in this picture of the loco, on the front RHS of the running plate (Bottom RHS of photo). WF_Garratt_073 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr The other small task that was completed was that one of the holes in the running plates for the hind units were filled in. The etch as supplied, has holes for a lubricator on each side. This is incorrect and the one on the RHS isn't present. So the RHS hole needs to be filled in. This was done by filing a scrap of spare etch to shape to fit in the hole, then flooding the under side with solder and filing / polishing back. Simples. The mod is seen in this picture (again bottom RHS) WF_Garratt_074 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr As for the pivots, I think I prefer the ball and cup arrangement as on Giles's loco. I think the tapered bearing may lead to premature wear (I mean, it's a garratt - eventually someone is going to couple an unreasonably long train to it just to see what it can pull!). Just need to work out how to make the ball joint. I have done something similar using files and a drill strapped to the workbench, as a poor-mans lathe. Alternatively, i might be able to get a supply of 3/16" brass balls, which I might be able to drill out 1/8" and solder in some rod, to form the pivot. the jury is still out on this one. Edited July 1, 2017 by PhilMortimer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Things are much better now. Re-assembled the second set of frames and it is now level to the running plate, and square. And a heck of a lot easier to assemble. There are still some dimensional discrepancies in the etches (one side of the frames is slightly deeper than the other!), but this can be resolved when we put the wheel bearings in. I also am looking to compensating the inner axle of each power unit (the non-motor driven one), to give better trackholding. I know how to do this, just need to find a grooved 3/16" bearing to go on the axle. Looks like it will be very hot here the next few days) upper 90's and high humidity, so will probabaly try and spend much of the time indoors, working on the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 For the ball joint, if you wanted to get away from making one yourself, I would be inclined to use these (or similar) http://www.rcworld.co.uk/acatalog/Ball-Joints-Ball-Links.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Good Idea. I hadn't thought about RC ball joints. Thanks for the suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 They're good, but they tend to be "stiff" - I'd be wary that this might need quite a bit of weight to ensure it works as you would want. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted August 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2016 Recently I bought B&R Video Productions 'Industrial Steam Part 1' DVD. It includes a shot of the garret working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Not a lot of progress this weekend despite good intentions. Did a little too much work out in the sun and then paid for it....... However, I did manage to check the axle alignment of the various power units (using some rod and my metalsmith bending bars as parallels) and am satisfied that the axle geometry of the power units is OK. The frame depth discrepancy is from the top of the frames to the bottom of the etch springs, not from the top of the frames to the axle holes. Phew. Now I can proceed with fitting the bearings and starting to set up the compensation. Need to get some gun blue and clean up the wheels and axles. On another note, I think I have a solution for the pivots. Need to obtain some parts, some of which will involve a trip to a fishing store............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Some progress tidying up the chassis units, but nothing pictographically worthwhile. Basically just need top clean up the units, remove excess solder and give everything a good clean now. Most of the work is adding the flanges around the cylinder blocks. Tedious, but essential. The cylinder wrappers have been trial fitted and need a bit of tweaking so that everything fits well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Just stumbled across this drawing link whilst looking for Class 25 General Arrangement drawings!! http://www.ssplprints.com/image/1132237/a1966-24-ms0001-3-94750 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Many Thanks, Yes, I have a copy - both electronic format and a print - about 36" wide! I think I'll get it framed when I've finished the build! Edited August 18, 2016 by PhilMortimer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 Sorry, not much to report at the moment. I'm in the middle of the Arizona desert, which whilst spectacular and beautiful, is far, far away from my work bench. It will be another week before I can get back to things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 It's just not good enough.... You can't just say "spectacular and beautiful" and leave us guessing. We want pictures!!! Enjoy your holiday! Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 Ok, when I near enough a good signal, I will put some up, even though it will be a thread drift! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Lots of little jobs being done on the power units at the moment. All the bracing flanges are done and the front bearings are in. Now my jig has arrived, I'm assembling 8 sets of coupling rods to allow the inner bearings to be fitted. This is quite tedious (each rod consists of a 3 part lamination) and none of this is particularly photogenic, but progress is being made. unfortunately, it appears that I have pneumonia at the moment, so this is slowing things down. However, all the power units got a good scrub with barkeepers friend to clean everything up and remove the grime from assembly. the cylinder covers are now being bent to shape, but I'm debating on weather to fit them now or after the cylinder end fittings and glands have been assembled (it might be neater to do this from the inside). Buffers have now been prepared and are ready for fitting.All in all, lots of little things going on that adds to the progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) OK, slight thread drift, but Simon in post #91 asked for pictures of spectacular scenery from the southwest. So here you are..... Apologies if they bore you. 601 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Driving up from Nevada to Utah 623 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Halfway up the Watchman Trail, Springdale, UT. 625 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Natural Ampitheatre, Zion National Park, UT 651 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Panorama, Bryce Canyon NP, UT 669 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Natural Arch, Bryce Canyon, UT, 695 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Peekaboo Canyon, a "slot canyon" IMG_1185 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Diane in Peekaboo canyon, Kanab, UT. To reach this, we had to ride through the desert on horseback IMG_1205 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr My other hobby. Diane and I on horseback. Diane with Sara, Me with Linda. IMG_1221 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Lees Ferry, AZ. Vermillion cliffs in the background. The scenery truly is awesome, magnified by the emptiness and the solitude. 776 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Vermillion Cliffs 719 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Glen Canyon Dam IMG_1272 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr A really big hole in the ground - North Rim, Grand Canyon, AZ IMG_1283 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr OK, since this is a model rail forum, we have to include some trains. Here we have an Alco FPA-4 parked up at Grand Canyon Village station IMG_1286 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Grand Canyon station (Depot). Behind this is the El Tovar hotel and behind that is the Canyon. As far as I know, this is the only station actually in a national park in the US, though there are a number in Canada. IMG_1291 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Double-headed EMD F-40's brought the daily train into Grand Canyon from Williams. AZ IMG_1293 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Another picture of the Grand Canyon Railways F-40's after arrival. So, that is why there was a delay in progress. On more mundane matters, the first set of rods for one of the garratts has been soldered together and the first pass at cleaning up has been completed. Second set of rods still needs to be done and all need polishing up further. Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Well, Phil, I could claim to have been bored by the non-train photos.... Would have been good for the giggle, but not true!!! Thanks for posting - and I'm particularly jealous about the horse ride! Simon (Btw, I did pass on a Garratt kit at Telford... But I remain tempted...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Go on, you know you want to......... I'd offer to build it for you, but it might be the death of me! Riding through the desert in the early morning was indeed spectacular and probably one of the highlights of the trip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 OK, slight thread drift, but Simon in post #91 asked for pictures of spectacular scenery from the southwest. So here you are..... Apologies if they bore you. Driving up from Nevada to Utah Halfway up the Watchman Trail, Springdale, UT. Natural Ampitheatre, Zion National Park, UT Panorama, Bryce Canyon NP, UT Natural Arch, Bryce Canyon, UT, Peekaboo Canyon, a "slot canyon" Diane in Peekaboo canyon, Kanab, UT. To reach this, we had to ride through the desert on horseback My other hobby. Diane and I on horseback. Diane with Sara, Me with Linda. Lees Ferry, AZ. Vermillion cliffs in the background. The scenery truly is awesome, magnified by the emptiness and the solitude. Vermillion Cliffs Glen Canyon Dam A really big hole in the ground - North Rim, Grand Canyon, AZ OK, since this is a model rail forum, we have to include some trains. Here we have an Alco FPA-4 parked up at Grand Canyon Village station Grand Canyon station (Depot). Behind this is the El Tovar hotel and behind that is the Canyon. As far as I know, this is the only station actually in a national park in the US, though there are a number in Canada. Double-headed EMD F-40's brought the daily train into Grand Canyon from Williams. AZ Another picture of the Grand Canyon Railways F-40's after arrival. So, that is why there was a delay in progress. On more mundane matters, the first set of rods for one of the garratts has been soldered together and the first pass at cleaning up has been completed. Second set of rods still needs to be done and all need polishing up further. The Photos are great. We took the train from Williams to the canyon great scenery and entertainment. I do believe Brice Canyon was a haunt of many an outlaw. We did a trip up from Arizona to Moab and back down the other side to Nevada. Would of been nice to spend more time and look at more places. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 "My other hobby. Diane and I on horseback." Me too! Like Simon, I envy your riding there. My retirement 'job' (www.unicorntrails.com) has allowed me to ride in many remote and exotic places all over the world. Here I am pausing at the top of the highest pass in the crossing of the High Andes from Chile to Argentina (seven days riding, six nights camping, taking all our provisions with us on pack animals): David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) Thanks David, I'm envious of your "retirement job", having been following your web pages. I don't think that I'm quite up to the level of horse packing in the Andes yet, but I'm certainly working at getting longer hours in the saddle and getting Canyon used to being on trails. To avoid this thread drifting too much, I'm going to re-direct anyone who is interested to my own personal web-page which describes my other activities, including my other railway modeling (4 mm scale, both standard gauge and narrow gauge), which can be found here. And I will add it to my signature line once I work out how! https://philmortimer.wordpress.com/ In the meantime, although I've not been able to make a lot of progress with the garratt, here is a picture of the first set of rods. Still some final filing and polishing required. I hope to make more rapid progress on this starting later this week, after i have cleared some work commitments. WF_Garratt_077 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 Second set of rods soldered up last night and roughly cleaned up. More polishing and filing tonight, and then preparation for drilling the bearing holes. The rods will be drilled in matched pairs, each pair being assigned to a specific engine unit. These rods will then be used to set the axle spacing and hopefully result in a free-running chassis. I have decided to make each chassis a rigid chassis, as this will be easier to construct and the articulation of the loco, along with it's total length, should ensure good current collection. I need to order some 10BA screws to make the crankpins, which will delay matters for a few days, as they will have to be ordered from the UK. (BA screws not readily available here in North America and where they are available, usually ridiculously expensive. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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