RMweb Gold TravisM Posted August 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) I recently bought myself a Graham Farish Cumbrian Mountain express set and looking to build a simple, small layout based on the S&C but no specific area, just to look like like part of the route. As I had haulage behind Dutchess of Hamilton between Leeds and Carlisle in 1983, I want to try and recreate the journey; and the SLOA Mk 1 Pullmans. We had a Class 45/1 for the return trip back over the S&C. I want to operate other trains and I assume Class 25's, 40's, 45's and 47's would be the norm but what about DMU's as Carlisle Kingmoor had Class 108's. Did they ply the route or was it all loco hauled with I assume Mk 1 stock? The layout it's self would be just a double track with possibly, a siding and I was hoping to use Dapol's working semaphore signals. Would they be a good match for ones used on the route? Any help would be most useful. Julian Sprott Edited February 11, 2017 by jools1959 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 7, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) I recently bought myself a Graham Farish Cumbrian Mountain express set and looking to build a simple, small layout based on the S&C but no specific area, just to look like like part of the route. As I had haulage behind Dutchess of Hamilton between Leeds and Carlisle in 1983, I want to try and recreate the journey; and the SLOA Mk 1 Pullmans. We had a Class 45/1 for the return trip back over the S&C. I want to operate other trains and I assume Class 25's, 40's, 45's and 47's would be the norm but what about DMU's as Carlisle Kingmoor had Class 108's. Did they ply the route or was it all loco hauled with I assume Mk 1 stock? The layout it's self would be just a double track with possibly, a siding and I was hoping to use Dapol's working semaphore signals. Would they be a good match for ones used on the route? Any help would be most useful. Julian Sprott Hi Julian. The "Settle & Carlisle" section was a very busy place a year or so ago and you'd have received a very rapid reply. As it is, things are much quieter, but I'll try to answer a couple of your questions. There are many books available on the S&C - have a look at the Bibliography thread further down the S&C section listing. Many of these are available very cheaply, second-hand, and give a good idea of the rolling stock on the line. Class 40 and 45 were common, with the occasional 47. I run 108s on Kirkby Luneside, so don't hesitate with those. I'm using Mk 1 coaches, as relevant to my 1956-1968 running period, and it sounds like you are modelling a similar era. Have a look at Mike's "Dent" layout for some good illustrations of what was going on. My KL2 is still a work in progress, whereas Dent is more likely to supply you with what you need to know! Good luck with your project. Jeff Edited August 7, 2016 by Physicsman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hello Julian Your list of locos is good for the early 80s and I think there were occasional Dalesrail specials with DMUs at this time. Most photos show 108s and/or 101s Unfortunately 1983 isn't a good year to model as all freights south of Appleby were withdrawn in May 82 leaving only 2 passenger services each way, usually in the hand of 31/4s, 47s and the occasional 45/1. There were always a few suprises, maybe a 25 or a 45/0 during the summer months and D200 was a regular performer. I think coaching stock was still mostly Mk 1s with a few early Mk2 s in some rakes. If you want variety with blue diesels late 70s up till 1981 would give plenty of variety after that it was the long years of decline until the closure battle was won. Have a look at my S&C 1979-83 layout in this section which is based mostly on the 1979-80 timetable. The books I used for inspiration were T J Flinders, On the Settle -Carlisle Route and The Settle -Carlisle Route Revisited as well as Diesels Over the Settle-Carlisle ( can't remember the author). Regards Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted August 8, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2016 Hello Julian Your list of locos is good for the early 80s and I think there were occasional Dalesrail specials with DMUs at this time. Most photos show 108s and/or 101s Unfortunately 1983 isn't a good year to model as all freights south of Appleby were withdrawn in May 82 leaving only 2 passenger services each way, usually in the hand of 31/4s, 47s and the occasional 45/1. There were always a few suprises, maybe a 25 or a 45/0 during the summer months and D200 was a regular performer. I think coaching stock was still mostly Mk 1s with a few early Mk2 s in some rakes. If you want variety with blue diesels late 70s up till 1981 would give plenty of variety after that it was the long years of decline until the closure battle was won. Have a look at my S&C 1979-83 layout in this section which is based mostly on the 1979-80 timetable. The books I used for inspiration were T J Flinders, On the Settle -Carlisle Route and The Settle -Carlisle Route Revisited as well as Diesels Over the Settle-Carlisle ( can't remember the author). Regards Alan Hi Alan, I've been following your thread and the reason I thought about 1983 as that's when I first travelled over it, though it could be moved nearer 1980 as I really liked Class 25's and 40's. I also would like to get one of Graham Farish's Class 108 DMU's with sound to run on the layout. I might even backdate it to early 60's as well as I could use my Stanier Coronation pacific and maybe my Blue Pullman which I bought to use on my local clubs N gauge layout. Who's to say one never ran over the S&C in the early 60's as they were hired out over weekends, usually on football specials and other events. Is your S&C layout still with us? Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Hello again... I don't think there'd be any problem running Duchess of Hamilton over the S&C at any time during the 1980s although there would be long periods of time when she'd be out of service for boiler overhauls etc. At least one Coronation worked a railtour in the 1960s - probably c1964. I think it was City of Bradford??? Never seen any photos of a Blue Pullman on the line, but if you're thinking of early 60s then Mikes layout of Dent is a great inspiration. My layout is still very much alive and well and is still run almost every day. As I always repeat the 1979 weekday morning timetable there isn't a lot of variety, so therefore rarely any photos these days. The layout has been used to test locos for the new layout. This a rare shot of EWS 56018 before a quick repaint into BR blue. Modelling the early 1980s I'm happy to watch trains running through the scenery, however if, maybe, you enjoy shunting then it would probably have to be the 1960s with most goods yards still in use. Regards Alan Edited August 8, 2016 by 60091 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted August 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2016 There were two booked loco hauled trains each weekday between Leeds and Carlisle each day (09:07 & 16:00 from Leeds, 10:40 &16:35 from Carlisle). Normal formation for these trains was SK SK CK BSK. Motive power could be provided by any one of classes 25, 31, 40, 45 or 47. Fortunately all these are (or were in the case of the 45) available from Farish! Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted August 9, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2016 Glad to see that the layout is still with us and being used. I think I will base my layout on the same time frame and run the Blue Pullman from time to time. I bought it to run on my clubs forthcoming Aylesbury layout. When I worked for London Transport, I was based at Neasden and I was told by several drivers that in the early 60's, one suddenly appeared heading north from Marylebone. The layout is a building exercise, to show off Dutchess of Hamilton and the SLOA stock I plan to acquire. I also hope that a friend will install a sound chip into it for me. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Hi Julian Thought I'd better make a quick post to correct a couple of things I mentioned earlier. It was May 1983 when freights finally ended.. (Friday 13th!), not May 82 as I said before. For the last two years there were only two freights each way and they were hauled by anything from the regular list of S&C classes. Along with only two passenger trains each way, that leaves plenty of paths to run an excursion with 46229. There were at least 2 earlier Coronation railtours over the line ... both in 1963 Locos were City of Carlisle (maroon livery) and City of Hereford (BR green). Regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted August 24, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2016 Had a really good think about this and decided to put the Ais Gill signal box to good use that came with the Graham Farish "Cumbrian Mountain Express" set. I want to build approximately a 12x3ft sectional layout of Ais Gill summit which will be a "tail chaser" with the fiddle yard loops hidden behind a scenic divider. I think it will be a great exhibition layout with plenty of scope for changing eras and keep the watching public interested. Any help would be a great. Julian Sprott 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Good luck with it julian,glad to see another ais gill! Cheers Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted August 31, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2016 Trying to compile a list of regular steam loco's that worked over S&C on excursions over the line from the late 70's and early 80's. I have a Graham Farish 46229 "Dutchess of Hamilton" which I got haulage over in 1983 and tempted by a Farish 35028 "Clan Line". Would like to have a model of that as I had a footplate ride on it from Westbury station into the yard whilst I worked there for Wessex Trains and First Great Western. Any help would be great. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 2, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2016 Just some pictures of the Steam Locomotive Owners Association (SLOA) train I'm creating for my forthcoming N gauge Seattle & Carlisle layout. They used for Pullman MKI Pullmans, a kitchen second, seven parlour seconds and the "Hadrian Bar", all available from Graham Farish (Bachmann) though some renumbering will have to take place. I have the kitchen second on it's way and also Graham Farish through their Bachmann Collectors club did a BCK painted in Pullman Umber & Cream and number 355. I have one on order but to get the complete set, I need two. Also SLOA had two and a single BR MKI FO's and SLF. So using the FO from the Cumbrian Mountain Express set as a substitute for now. Julian Sprott 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Hi Julian Do you have copies of T G Flinders books On the Settle Carlisle Route and The Settle Carlisle Revisited? They're esential reading for the time you're modelling. I'm no expert on steam specials over the line and most of the following info comes from those books. Steam specials 78-83 were mostly in the hands of popular restored locos. Flying Scotsman, Sir Nigel Gesley, V2 4471 Green Arrow, Evening Star, Clan Line, and of course 46229. Early 80s Black 5 5305, Leander, Lord Nelson, J36 Maud, Black 5 5407+Leander, Sir Lamiel, City of Wells, I also read somewhere that the 1979 steam programme was severly curtailed because the line had to carry extra traffic following the collapse of the Penmanshiel Tunnel on the ECLM. Cheers Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 8, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2016 Hi Julian Do you have copies of T G Flinders books On the Settle Carlisle Route and The Settle Carlisle Revisited? They're esential reading for the time you're modelling. I'm no expert on steam specials over the line and most of the following info comes from those books. Steam specials 78-83 were mostly in the hands of popular restored locos. Flying Scotsman, Sir Nigel Gesley, V2 4471 Green Arrow, Evening Star, Clan Line, and of course 46229. Early 80s Black 5 5305, Leander, Lord Nelson, J36 Maud, Black 5 5407+Leander, Sir Lamiel, City of Wells, I also read somewhere that the 1979 steam programme was severly curtailed because the line had to carry extra traffic following the collapse of the Penmanshiel Tunnel on the ECLM. Cheers Alan Hi Alan, No I don't but I'll have a look on Ebay and see what's available. Seems that 1979 might be a interesting time to model with all the extra traffic. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 8, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2016 Hi Julian Do you have copies of T G Flinders books On the Settle Carlisle Route and The Settle Carlisle Revisited? They're esential reading for the time you're modelling. I'm no expert on steam specials over the line and most of the following info comes from those books. Steam specials 78-83 were mostly in the hands of popular restored locos. Flying Scotsman, Sir Nigel Gesley, V2 4471 Green Arrow, Evening Star, Clan Line, and of course 46229. Early 80s Black 5 5305, Leander, Lord Nelson, J36 Maud, Black 5 5407+Leander, Sir Lamiel, City of Wells, I also read somewhere that the 1979 steam programme was severly curtailed because the line had to carry extra traffic following the collapse of the Penmanshiel Tunnel on the ECLM. Cheers Alan Bought them both at a good price, thank you for recommending them. The list of steam loco's is good and I can create a good variety of special workings. Thanks again. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Hi Alan, No I don't but I'll have a look on Ebay and see what's available. Seems that 1979 might be a interesting time to model with all the extra traffic. Julian Hi Julian Although I don't know for certain, I think the majority (if not all) of the diverted ECML services were the slower vac braked and partly fitted freights. They're often difficult to tell apart from the S&C regular freights. Clues can be a large number of 21t coal hoppers or "whisky blues" (grain hoppers) in the consist. Around this time BR also used the line for publicity purposes using an HST. I think there's a photo in one of the Flinders books. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 17, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2016 My SLOA (Steam Locomotive Owners Association) Pullman train is coming along nicely with a recent acquirement of a Graham Farish Collectors club MK1 BCK, car number 355 painted in umber and cream. As well as the BSK, you can see I have a Farish Pullman Kitchen Second (to be renumbered 335), a single Parlour Second (350) and Pullman Bar Car "Hadrian Bar". To make a full train I need another six Parlour Second's and most will have to be renumbered. I also need another BSK (356) but I think I will either stay as I am or get a blue and grey one given the price they are and it will needing to be renumbering. Julian Sprott 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted November 30, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2016 Thought I'd give a heads up on progress of my N gauge S&C layout. Not much has happened bench wise though a track plan has been put together and It will be based on Ais Gill as prototypically, the whole thing fits nicely on the 12x3ft over three boards. I probably have them made commercially as my wood butchering skills are pretty poor. My main focus has been on recreating the SLOA "Cumbrian Mountain Express" which will be the "signature" train on the layout and I thought would share the pictures I took at my local clubs Aylesbury layout which is in the process of being built. 46229 Duchess of Hamilton has now been DCC and sound fitted by Digitrains and really sounds the part. Even my girlfriend who is French and has no real interest in model railways was staggered by the realistic sounds that it made being so small, so if it passed her critical eye, job done. As you can see, it's recreated using Bachmann's Graham Farish range of Mark 1 BCK, two FO's in blue and grey, a Pullman Kitchen Second, the "Hadrian Bar" car, thee Pullman Parlor Seconds and a Bachmann Collectors Club BCK, numbered 355 and painted in Umber and Cream. I have another five Farish Pullman Parlour Seconds to get to finish the job and it is planned to get the Pullmans that need it, renumbered by TMC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander22b Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) In the early '80s when 46229 hauled the CME she brought the '55 club' with her which was added to the regular train. This consisted of the NRMs first class pullmans Eagle & Emerald plus the Royal Train brake 5155. She thus regularly hauled 14 coaches over the drag. Edited December 2, 2016 by leander22b Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted December 5, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2016 In the early '80s when 46229 hauled the CME she brought the '55 club' with her which was added to the regular train. This consisted of the NRMs first class pullmans Eagle & Emerald plus the Royal Train brake 5155. She thus regularly hauled 14 coaches over the drag. The Royal Train Brake 5155 would have to be scratch built (unless someone else knows different), which is beyond me but both the NRM Mk1 Pullmans can be sourced from Graham Farish and added to the train. Adding those three could boost my train to a maximum to 17 coaches. Maybe too many? Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted December 16, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2016 I recently bought Hornby's Lyddle End East station buildings and Home Farm building to go with my Bachmann's Ais Gill signal box and I was wondering if they all can be adapted to do a N gauge version of Dent? I realise the the station building would have to be repainted as the real Dent station has a reddish brick colour. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted December 25, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 25, 2016 I think my girlfriend was having a little dig at me for buying loco's and rolling stock but having no track, so she got me this as a starter. At least she got the gauge right I hope everyone had a great Xmas. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted December 25, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 25, 2016 I think my girlfriend was having a little dig at me for buying loco's and rolling stock but having no track, so she got me this as a starter. At least she got the gauge right I hope everyone had a great Xmas. Julian Sprott I had a look inside the box and there's Setrack N Gauge plan book and to my surprise, there's a plan of Ribblehead station and the viaduct; and at 11ft 2ins by 5ft 10ins, could fit inside a garden shed or large room in the house if someones lucky enough. It has given me a lot of ideas and would be a terrific layout even if you decided just to Setrack. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted February 11, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2017 I've ordered the baseboards and should arrive soon, so I can start track laying after they have been assembled. I'm seriously thinking of using British finescale track and pointwork instead of Peco to give a better look. Does anyone know how to change the header on this thread? Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted February 11, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) I think my girlfriend was having a little dig at me for buying loco's and rolling stock but having no track, so she got me this as a starter. At least she got the gauge right I hope everyone had a great Xmas. Julian Sprott I will be using the set track as a test track to run in new loco's and as programming track. Julian Sprott Edited February 11, 2017 by jools1959 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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