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All new RTR PGA wagon in 4mm scale

Grimleygrid

By Grimleygrid,
in Cavalex

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Classsix T

Classsix T

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Posted

Excuse me but you stated that these wagons cost too much. Maybe in future you'll quantify such an ambiguous statement with some sort of evidence to back this up. Your own quotes from a factory might be a start.

 

I didn't voice an opinion one way or another on the expense, I want some, that is the price, cough up or go without. Besides, I fail to see how a whole two pounds makes much difference to the pocket of the end purchaser, but I'll bet it makes one hell of a difference to the end product from the factory as a bulk purchase. You appear to want to hold back the tide of the inevitable, should we wish to progress this hobby beyond what has gone before. And pay for it.

 

ANYWAYS, back on topic.post-8937-0-33510300-1488302819.jpg

 

C6T.

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McGomez

McGomez

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Forgive me if this image has already been posted here.

If it has it deserves a second viewing!

That´s 1215 quids worth of wagons!! :jester:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/billatkinson2/5767798235/in/photolist-Qy4dB4-RQQxdw-KJQgV-REu5xo-dTESJn-bwht4X-s3mKWr-ppX9Nk-9MFtta-rZZqKy-qhHmeR-pcb5Gy-qjbGzQ-jUASbH-mjeAS5-dHSMUm-q6qyn1-pcsiCd-rtcZFZ-r1zKts-q6qmrs-rkWLg8-o1TAWe-fFyHwC-sotJhh-j7nUYB-rr1Kdj-9pQpqD-nUSBPP-gdejeR-piS9Bv-pLFWxG-rFj75Y-o45qrP-hWX8ss-nyxFEh-tPfW1w-dSPnCm-RMcNhM-q2YSQW-fMtAes-pgk7ak-fLf9oR-dhaS8G-QMSiG2-bZ1FBw-ecWdpB-eD63Hr-rsoZfU-CHQff/

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Grimleygrid

Grimleygrid

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On the issue of price - if like you say it needs to be £27.00, to cover the wagon, plus tooling cost for first run quantities -fair enough.  But how about after that, for the original crowdfunders, for those who have bought say 5 or 7 plus, offer a 'crowdfunders' loyalty discount on future PGA based models, as they have already contributed to the tooling costs?  

 

Just a thought....

 

C.

 

Dogbox321, many thanks for your post.

On a future run we would definitely offer a discount to anyone who has placed an order for this first run, as you say, a loyalty discount so to speak. This would obviously depend on reaching the target level for the first run. At this time it would not be possible to provide details and exact figures, however, as we appreciate the support of the original customers they would be offered a discount in line with the quantities ordered for any subsequent future orders.

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Grimleygrid

Grimleygrid

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In today's market £27 is not over the top in price , when a Heljan IGA Cargowaggon are a staggering £199 RRP but down to £145 on Hattons , i wish the project the best of luck along with the transfers which would an easier  option to do renumbering

Regards Baz

 

 

I think what a lot of people are forgetting this isn't some model that you can phone up Hattons for on a Friday afternoon, order a whole rake of the things with a 15% discount and get them delivered by Yodel the next morning. These are a bespoke model that at the end of the day are being produced by two ordinary but very talented modellers. If you check out either Cav's or Alex's layout threads you will see that their attention to detail on their own projects is second to none. I know that this attention to detail will be applied to the production of these wagons and that these two guys will not be happy until they are 100% right. So for a couple of quid more than the bog standard releases from a certain manufacturer I believe we will get something very special indeed. My orders in and I just hope that they reach their target so the model can be produced.

 

Marcus

 

 

If anyone really wants these you must be prepared to buy now!

 

In years to come you will regret it if they only ever have one production run and you will not be able to buy them for any price!

 

Mark Saunders

 

 

Hi Alex and Cav

 

Been watching this thread for a while. Whilst I don't "need" any of these wagons for my layout I really want to show my support so expression of interest made for a couple of wagons.

 

All the best

 

Thanks Baz, Marcus, Mark and Sam for your support.

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Grimleygrid

Grimleygrid

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No need to apologise Andy!

 

16617462600_a3287e52b9_z.jpgCrew change at Wellingborough by geoff7918, on Flickr

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YesTor

YesTor

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Just returning to this earlier question regarding ladders/walkways, and I can see the reasoning behind it perhaps being preferable to create some of the handrails and framework using plastic, however I'm curious if you had considered etches for the actual ladders? 

 

Reasoning - in that plastic ladders are almost always far too thick, even on very recently produced models - I'm thinking of the Bachmann PCA tanker in particular and in fact any plastic laddering that I have ever seen on any model.  The laddering on the PGA appears to be very, if not totally straight, so while I can understand the use of plastic if there are particular contours that need to be depicted that would otherwise be difficult to get right in metal, I would have figured that a straightforward straight-runged ladder might just as easily be reproduced as an etched piece, and in doing so give a far more refined appearance, as per the prototype, than any plastic laddering could ever achieve?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5704689446/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/15887726344

 

In short, the laddering on this type of wagon is perhaps one of the most noticeable features, so it would be a shame if the end result didn't appear quite right.  I say all of this as simply by modifying the existing Hornby PGA with the etched kit from A1 Models the appearance is improved drastically.  Of course, I am more than happy to be pleasantly surprised, but in fairness I am yet to see truly convincing plastic laddering anywhere, period.

 

I have no wish to be rude or impatient, so forgive me if perhaps you were considering my query (as above), however I'm aware that the order deadline is as of today, and having expressed an interest in a reasonable rake it would helpful to know a little more on the spec of the wagon. 

 

Anyway, in short, I ask because I have in the past modified a few of the dated Hornby PGA with etched ladders, and to be honest I'm not envying the prospect of maybe having to do the same with this model should they in fact come with plastic laddering, which in my own personal opinion is rarely, if ever, anywhere near as prototypical looking.   If it is preferable to direct enquiries such as the above via email please kindly let me know and I will contact via email.

 

thanks in advance...

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RBE

RBE

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I have no wish to be rude or impatient, so forgive me if perhaps you were considering my query (as above), however I'm aware that the order deadline is as of today, and having expressed an interest in a reasonable rake it would helpful to know a little more on the spec of the wagon. 

 

Anyway, in short, I ask because I have in the past modified a few of the dated Hornby PGA with etched ladders, and to be honest I'm not envying the prospect of maybe having to do the same with this model should they in fact come with plastic laddering, which in my own personal opinion is rarely, if ever, anywhere near as prototypical looking.   If it is preferable to direct enquiries such as the above via email please kindly let me know and I will contact via email.

 

thanks in advance...

 

Hi Alan, and firstly thank you for your support in this project. It is clear from your concerns that you are as passionate about getting this right as we are. Which is exactly what we need from a customer base.

 

So regarding the ladders. I understand your concerns and plastic ladders in the past have been coarse featureless affairs best replaced by a suitable etch, I have done countless conversions of this type, however please allow me to express our thoughts on this. Our initial plan was to go for a fully etched ladder and walkway as you propose but when laying out the 3D model it soon became apparent that the ladders, being a 3D shape, have a profile. That profile is formed of 2 flat side stretchers oriented with their flat faces perpendicular to the rungs with round rungs set between, this isn't possible to do with an etch and we would end up with ladders that are fine but very flat with no definition pertaining to their shape.

 

With modern moulding processes we can produce much finer items than the old days where the ladders were basically thickened versions of the flat ladders best replace by metal. This gives us the advantage of producing details that are as per the prototype and not just a reasonable facsimile.

 

With this in mind we decided to go for the moulded plastic route with an etch mesh walkway deck providing the best of both worlds. I hope that you can see our reasoning here and appreciate that this is not a corner cutting decision but quite the opposite where we are trying to push the technology to produce something that is more like the original not less so.

 

I hope that this belays any fears at this stage and rest assured that if the ladders do not meet our stringent requirements when we get the production sample we will revisit this again.

 

Regards

Cav

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Classsix T

Classsix T

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Posted

I noticed on Beast's photo reportage of the wagons through Eccles Road the PGAs are sans ladders and walkways.

I don't think this affects the two livery types Cavalex are doing though, just the post-LaFarge ownership period?

 

C6T.

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hmrspaul

hmrspaul

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Posted

Hi Alan, and firstly thank you for your support in this project. It is clear from your concerns that you are as passionate about getting this right as we are. Which is exactly what we need from a customer base.

 

So regarding the ladders. I understand your concerns and plastic ladders in the past have been coarse featureless affairs best replaced by a suitable etch, I have done countless conversions of this type, however please allow me to express our thoughts on this. Our initial plan was to go for a fully etched ladder and walkway as you propose but when laying out the 3D model it soon became apparent that the ladders, being a 3D shape, have a profile. That profile is formed of 2 flat side stretchers oriented with their flat faces perpendicular to the rungs with round rungs set between, this isn't possible to do with an etch and we would end up with ladders that are fine but very flat with no definition pertaining to their shape.

 

With modern moulding processes we can produce much finer items than the old days where the ladders were basically thickened versions of the flat ladders best replace by metal. This gives us the advantage of producing details that are as per the prototype and not just a reasonable facsimile.

 

With this in mind we decided to go for the moulded plastic route with an etch mesh walkway deck providing the best of both worlds. I hope that you can see our reasoning here and appreciate that this is not a corner cutting decision but quite the opposite where we are trying to push the technology to produce something that is more like the original not less so.

 

I hope that this belays any fears at this stage and rest assured that if the ladders do not meet our stringent requirements when we get the production sample we will revisit this again.

 

Regards

Cav

 

'Wrong scale for me. But I like your reasoning on the ladders. I've measured dozens of ladders, and they were all as you describe. Perhaps OT but Heljan haven't made a bad fist of the ladder on their new tank wagons representing the flat sides with round rungs. Also, having purchased a flat etched ladder in 7mm I found it very easily deformed, and very difficult to get straight again.

 

I wish you well with this project, not an easy prototype! And interesting to see so many comments on how the prototypes have altered down the years.

 

Paul

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Classsix T

Classsix T

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I've already used my "Oddball (Donald Sunderland) off of Kelly's Heroes" soundbite, but that is most definitely Woof, woof and thrice woof!

 

C6T.

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Grimleygrid

Grimleygrid

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First of all, may we take this opportunity to thank those that have registered their expression of interest and supported our PGA project. It is very much appreciated.

We will be providing an update on our project this Sunday the 5th of March following the passing of the expression of interest deadline this week.

Alex and Cav

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Grimleygrid

Grimleygrid

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First of all, thank you to those that have expressed an interest in pre-ordering our new PGA wagon, it is much appreciated. The feedback and comments expressed have been very positive and certainly provided us with an early indication that our approach to this project has so far well received.

Whilst the level of pre-orders has not been as high as we had hoped, we have been encouraged by the level of orders over the past few weeks. We have therefore taken the decision to extend the deadline to the 5th of April 2017 and are confident of achieving the required level of orders.

It is better to delay the release by a few weeks and take our time rather than rush things.

There has been a rush of orders after the 1st of March deadline and we are confident of achieving the required level of orders by the new deadline for this project to proceed.

Thank you for the continued support and understanding.

 

Best Regards

 

Alex and Cav

Cavalex Models

 

http://www.cavalexmodels.com/index.html

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Grimleygrid

Grimleygrid

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A very good find Simon, thanks for sharing. Interesting to note that quite a few of the PGAs had the full protection panels fitted. The Grid sounded superb pulling off and working hard to get the loaded train going.

Nice photos too, chopper on hoppers, quality!

Do you happen to have a date for the class 66 shot please? I see that the rear PGA still had ladders and walk ways.
Thanks for posting.

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