Tri-ang Railways.

[Il Grifone]

It could well be.

 

The X.04 has its origins in the Zenith motor* a disc commutator design, but otherwise more of less the same thing.

 

* Were these originally fitted to the Rovex Princess? I'd have to check with Tri-ang volume of the bible.....

 

My KMR MR/LMS compound has one. It runs, but is rather delicate. If I were to use the locomotive on a regular basis, she would need a new chassis.

 

There's nothing wrong with the disc commutator per se. Thousands of Trix, Lima and Hornby locomotives use them (there are others of course).

[Robin Brasher]

Don't know if this has been asked already, but were the Tri-ang station buildings based on any particular prototype?

Joe Hunt from Elstead (near Godalming, Surrey) made the original buildings from balsa wood over a weekend. He may have based them on a railway station near his home.

[5050]

I think we may have all been here before -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14256-what-make-is-this-motor/

 

Sort of...............

 

And here is the Zenith motor that spawned the X04.

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by 5050

[Il Grifone]

I like the 'only'! That's something like £25 today, (though I suppose it does include the gearbox), but the postage would be rather more than the equivalent of 6d today. Small packet - £2.60 (or has it gone up again?) + packing

[Robin Brasher]

Some pictures from the South Dorset Modellers evening at Winterborne Kingston Village Hall.

R229 Restaurant Car green with seats appeared in May 1957 with curtains and fully laid tables at a time when most model coaches did not have an interior.

R29 Main Line Composite Coach, crimson and cream was another 9" coach. Although it did not have an interior it was a huge improvement on the previous 6" coach.

R59 2-6-2 Class 3MT Tank Loco in green livery with the late crest. This was one o the 11,000 3MTs with a smoke unit.

[Nearholmer]

You chaps have made me swot-up a bit on forgotten Triang, and that has made me realise how good their range actually was during the final fight to the death with HD. My vague notion of a 1963 layout in 00 is getting worryingly concrete!

 

K

[BernardTPM]

Very late 9" coaches were fitted with interiors and they were also available as spare parts for upgrading older models. My Tri-ang Suburban coaches (nominally from Christmas 1959) have interiors, though I think Dad sent them back to get damaged couplings replaced, so they may have swapped them for circa 1961/62 versions at that time; they have split type wheels but closed axleboxes. I ought to scan the very old negs from that Christmas and see if there's any sign of interiors in the coaches or open ended axleboxes.

[DCB]

I think we may have all been here before -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14256-what-make-is-this-motor/

 

Sort of...............

 

And here is the Zenith motor that spawned the X04.

 

Zenith X3 GEM Motor MRN Feb 51.jpg

I just wish we could buy something like that today,  I find getting gears to mesh a complete nightmare

[Il Grifone]

There are two versions of the 9" coaches. The first had open axleboxes, MK II couplings and flat ends. These were followed by a bow end version and the Mk II couplings were replaced by the Mk III tension locks. they are obviously intended to be BR standard Mk I coaches, though there was no composite restaurant car. The only examples I know of are the two GWR diagrams from the 1920's (the Dublo and later Hornby models).

[Nearholmer]

Gents

 

Which generation/date of Triang stock runs well on Peco Code 100 track?

 

Kevin

[Robin Brasher]

Gents

 

Which generation/date of Triang stock runs well on Peco Code 100 track?

 

Kevin

Kevin,

 

About 1970 when Tri-ang Hornby produced 'System 6' track.

[Il Grifone]

I think all, except possibly the earliest Tri-ang production (which is acetate anyway and probably not a running proposition), will run on code 100, but may bump on crossings because of the deep flanges. Peco Streamline was originally designed to accept all the then current production wheels*. Dublo wheels being 'middle of the road' (and the later Hornby which are more or less the same) probably run the best (assuming they are to gauge of course).

 

*Trix had by then abandoned their coarse wheels.

[Nearholmer]

So, my 1963 date-line idea would probably be OK with code 100 streamline plain track, but might need specially made points, using code 100 rail soldered to paxolin sleepers, to get a smooth ride through the crossing.

 

Did I get that right?

 

K

[APOLLO]

Nearholmer, I run quite a few old Tri-ang wagons and a few locos on my layout. All run well through Peco code 100, though most needed back to backs adjusting - locos especially. Easy to do. 

 

Brit15

[SRman]

I think all, except possibly the earliest Tri-ang production (which is acetate anyway and probably not a running proposition), will run on code 100, but may bump on crossings because of the deep flanges. Peco Streamline was originally designed to accept all the then current production wheels*. Dublo wheels being 'middle of the road' (and the later Hornby which are more or less the same) probably run the best (assuming they are to gauge of course).

 

*Trix had by then abandoned their coarse wheels.

 

I would add that the back to back distance would have to be increased a bit to go through current Peco code 100 points - they seem to have tightened up the clearances at some time in the ensuing decades. Most Triang driving wheels can be eased out on their axles with a little gentle levering, at least on the side with the insulating bush,sufficiently to get through the points without dragging.

[Legend]

Yes I've got Triang and Triang Hornby locos that go round code 100 without issues. The earliest of mine dates from 1965 when Super 4 track was in use. I've never altered back to backs or made any alterations. That said I did away with all my curved points , but that was because of more recent locos derailing .

[Golden Fleece 30]

Peco changed their point clearance in the 90's as Griffone says to a tighter tolerance. Dublo wheels run very well through them but older Tri-ang sintered iron and solid wheels need their back to back adjusting. I did mine in a lathe with photos on YouTube under Garry Hall

Garry

[Robin Brasher]

Tri-ang Hornby 2-6-2 3MT tank crossing Corfe Viaduct on the layout at Godlingston Manor stables at Swanage. 82004 did visit the Swanage Railway around 1963. The model was a bit hesitant on Peco code 100 points due to the flange depth and back to back measurements. I think Peco used to make scale plastic wheels to enable Tri-ang rolling stock to run on Peco track. Now Hornby supplies wheel sets that fit older Tri-ang rolling stock with closed axle boxes and pin point bearings.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here are some wheel conversions and everyone one runs through modern Peco universal pointwork without any issues.  The last ones show the very first solid wheels from the 2-6-2 tank.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

I need a lathe! (Unfortunately I lack the cash, the space and the skill to use the thing!)

 

Peco used to make conversion kits for Tri-ang - large and small nylon rolling stock wheels to their A/HD standard (a sort of compromise between the BRMSB and Dublo wheel standards) and nylon couplings* which fitted in the Mk II coupling mount. Included was an adapter for the Mk III, which was less successful or perhaps it's Grifone ham-handedness. Some careful trimming is involved.

 

*A plastic version of the Peco Simplex, with a little hook under the knuckle, presumably an attempt to prevent spurious uncoupling. They do tend to suffer from excessive vertical play.

 

I'm not sure of the correct back to back for Tri-ang wheels, but it seems to measure at 13.8mm. Rather less than Dublo (14.2mm), but Dublo flangeways are rather wider than necessary, so they will pas through However, they certainly won't pass though an NMRA or BRMSB crossing (flangeways 1.2mm and 1.25mm respectively). I understand that Streamline flangeways were originally 1.4mm (I've never measured one) , but were tightened up in the eighties(?) , This slop may account for the problems reported with curved points*. I have one to hand, so I'll measure it and report back.

 

*American rolling stock will derail on one I have (it's not curved either). It looks like some attention to check rails is called for!

Edited April 11, 2017 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

I couldn't find the Peco point (it's in one of the boxes!), but I did find a Peco Tri-ang conversion wheelset - B-B 14.5mm and 3mm thick. The extra thickness is sufficient to avoid the wheels dropping in the gauge widening at the Dublo blades. I took the opportunity of measuring a Tri-ang 'Jinty' with the solid wheels. The B-B is 13.8mm and the wheel thickness a generous 4mm of which 1mm is flange. The flange depth is 1.6mm. Plenty of scope for slimming down!

[Golden Fleece 30]

Grifone is spot on with wheel back to back dimensions, I used to take 0.2mm or a touch more off the Tri-ang wheels to keep them the same as Dublo and then they run extremely well through modern Peco points.

 

Garry

Edited April 12, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Nearholmer]

GF30

 

Are you taking material only off the back face of the wheel, to increase b-t-b, or are you reducing flange depth too?

 

Kevin

[Golden Fleece 30]

I reduced the flange depth a little more on the original solid wheels but for the tyred open spoke wheels it was not much. Holding the tread as per photo 0.2 was removed across the tyre and wheel, the spokes are recessed so not touched. Solid wheels were stepped as the photo shows as there is no need to do the whole wheel and it then allowed the wheel boss to sit against the axle step as when made. Once I turned the wheel around to hold onto the axle then the flange had the slightest amount taken off if necessary but I cannot remember the amount as I just went by the dials on the lathe carriage. The EM2 wheels were the hardest as they were left on the nylon axle so care was needed not to catch the gear wheel. These again were just the backs and leaving a step on as per the 2-6-2 solid wheels.

 

To do steam loco wheels I removed the insulated wheel and used the axle to hold onto for the flange reduction. I used new non insulated wheels for the second side, as per normal 3-rail, and after turning the backs, the wheel was held on a bolt to do the flange.

 

On the later plated tyres the backs only were done as the flange depth was not as deep.

 

I think I also removed some of radius between the tread and flange as it was quite large.

 

Garry

Edited April 12, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

Trying to remember the flange depth I think it may have been reduced about.0.5mm but it is a guess as it was a few years ago and once the dials were set after one wheel I did not measure anything else.

 

If you look on you tube you will see the modified Lord of the Isles with 9 coaches on, M7, L1, Britannia, B12 etc all with the modified wheels.

 

Garry