Southern Rail Franchise

[Glorious NSE]

Don't think it's been mentioned above - is the TfL option worthwhile for part or all of Southern? (I know that the current MoT has said that he doesn't wish to give the current Mayor any more 'power', but that's purely party politics).

Mal

It would work I suspect on the suburban part - if you took everything 'inside' Croydon maybe? At some point further out you'll end up staffing relatively deserted and sparsely served stations until the last train.

 

And the cynic in me says that staffing all stations is still far more expensive than not having staff on the trains or the stations though.

 

 

[Coryton]

It would work I suspect on the suburban part - if you took everything 'inside' Croydon maybe? At some point further out you'll end up staffing relatively deserted and sparsely served stations until the last train.

 

And the cynic in me says that staffing all stations is still far more expensive than not having staff on the trains or the stations though.

 

 

I know that currently driverless trains only work in nice contained systems with considerable support from signalling equipment.

 

But if we can have driverless cars (and trucks) coping with traffic, pedestrians wandering out in front of them etc. with no specialised 'ground' equipment then it's hard to imagine that something similar couldn't be done for trains. (And without wishing to imply that train driving isn't a skilled job, the fact that there are far fewer variables than in road traffic makes me think it would actually be less difficult to automate.)

 

On the other hand the idea of completely unstaffed trains might not go down so well, and automating checking tickets and giving advice to passengers in a useful way is probably even harder than driving.

 

So maybe ultimately main line trains will end up like the DLR, and the guards/OBS end up being with the ones with some job security, not the drivers.

 

Another passing thought - AI systems are getting better all the time (they've finally managed to beat the best GO players). In airport security AI systems are 'trained' to spot threat objects in body scanner images. Perhaps it won't be long before they can do a better job than a driver staring at a matrix of screens at deciding if it's safe to shut the doors and move on.

[The Stationmaster]

I know that currently driverless trains only work in nice contained systems with considerable support from signalling equipment.

 

But if we can have driverless cars (and trucks) coping with traffic, pedestrians wandering out in front of them etc. with no specialised 'ground' equipment then it's hard to imagine that something similar couldn't be done for trains. (And without wishing to imply that train driving isn't a skilled job, the fact that there are far fewer variables than in road traffic makes me think it would actually be less difficult to automate.)

 

On the other hand the idea of completely unstaffed trains might not go down so well, and automating checking tickets and giving advice to passengers in a useful way is probably even harder than driving.

 

So maybe ultimately main line trains will end up like the DLR, and the guards/OBS end up being with the ones with some job security, not the drivers.

 

Another passing thought - AI systems are getting better all the time (they've finally managed to beat the best GO players). In airport security AI systems are 'trained' to spot threat objects in body scanner images. Perhaps it won't be long before they can do a better job than a driver staring at a matrix of screens at deciding if it's safe to shut the doors and move on.

 

An interesting thing which is often missed in this debate is where we/the railway have started from.  If a Driver using monitors (on platform or on train) can't see if everything is clear how can a Guard on a busy station platform with no more than a pair of Mk1 eyeballs and no intermediate cameras etc to help him/her?  True he might be able to lean out, he might be able to get out but between doing that and pressing the button what might he/she miss?  And I think we'll find that sometimes that is exactly what has happened.

 

Interestingly on some very heavily used GWML suburban stations there are neither mirrors nor monitors - sometimes I see drivers get out and look back or try to do so from the dcab side window and at other times I see no sign of that.  But every time before the doors start to close there's an audible warning and there are pre-taped on-train announcements.  So assuming a train has suitable detection in its door closing fit to avoid trapping people in the doors exactly what else is needed and should we go for the sometimes imperfect system of someone leaning out of a door or window or should we go for monitors, and why?

 

Incidentally I am far less worried about Drivers being unable to see me boarding or alighting than I am about Guards not seeing me (illogical tho' that might sound) and I am massively less worried about either than I am about SDO (selective door opening) controlled by 'ordinary' GPS which is potentially far less accurate than Differential GPS.

[Coryton]

An interesting thing which is often missed in this debate is where we/the railway have started from.  If a Driver using monitors (on platform or on train) can't see if everything is clear how can a Guard on a busy station platform with no more than a pair of Mk1 eyeballs and no intermediate cameras etc to help him/her?  True he might be able to lean out, he might be able to get out but between doing that and pressing the button what might he/she miss?  And I think we'll find that sometimes that is exactly what has happened.

 

The guard can see a lot better from the platform than the driver can in the cab, even by leaning out. As for missing something before pressing the button, in my experience guards normally check the doors from the platform, reach or step into the train to shut all the doors except theirs, then stand back on the platform to make sure nobody has got themselves squashed in a door before shutting their door and giving the right away.

 

Interestingly on some very heavily used GWML suburban stations there are neither mirrors nor monitors - sometimes I see drivers get out and look back or try to do so from the dcab side window and at other times I see no sign of that.  But every time before the doors start to close there's an audible warning and there are pre-taped on-train announcements.  So assuming a train has suitable detection in its door closing fit to avoid trapping people in the doors exactly what else is needed and should we go for the sometimes imperfect system of someone leaning out of a door or window or should we go for monitors, and why?

 

A good question. Maybe lifts should all have attendants to make sure nobody is trapped in the doors before they move?

 

Incidentally I am far less worried about Drivers being unable to see me boarding or alighting than I am about Guards not seeing me (illogical tho' that might sound) and I am massively less worried about either than I am about SDO (selective door opening) controlled by 'ordinary' GPS which is potentially far less accurate than Differential GPS.

 

Are we asking too much these days that passengers should look before stepping out of a doorway?

 

(And yes I know there are people with limited/no vision, but if their vision is so poor they wouldn't notice the lack of a platform, wouldn't they be using a cane to check for hazards anyway?)

 

 

An interesting thing which is often missed in this debate is where we/the railway have started from.  If a Driver using monitors (on platform or on train) can't see if everything is clear how can a Guard on a busy station platform with no more than a pair of Mk1 eyeballs and no intermediate cameras etc to help him/her?  True he might be able to lean out, he might be able to get out but between doing that and pressing the button what might he/she miss?  And I think we'll find that sometimes that is exactly what has happened.

 

Interestingly on some very heavily used GWML suburban stations there are neither mirrors nor monitors - sometimes I see drivers get out and look back or try to do so from the dcab side window and at other times I see no sign of that.  But every time before the doors start to close there's an audible warning and there are pre-taped on-train announcements.  So assuming a train has suitable detection in its door closing fit to avoid trapping people in the doors exactly what else is needed and should we go for the sometimes imperfect system of someone leaning out of a door or window or should we go for monitors, and why?

 

Incidentally I am far less worried about Drivers being unable to see me boarding or alighting than I am about Guards not seeing me (illogical tho' that might sound) and I am massively less worried about either than I am about SDO (selective door opening) controlled by 'ordinary' GPS which is potentially far less accurate than Differential GPS.

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Don't think it's been mentioned above - is the TfL option worthwhile for part or all of Southern? (I know that the current MoT has said that he doesn't wish to give the current Mayor any more 'power', but that's purely party politics).

Mal

 

 

The proposal under consideration was for TfL to take over the suburban services of firstly SouthEastern, followed later on by those operated by SouthWest trains and then Southern.

The SoS has rejected the first of these (SouthEastern) on the basis that the proposal offered no increase, or improvement in services.

 

Various ignorant MP's and some journalists championing that particular cause, appear to think the idea was to take over the whole Southern franchise network!!!!

At the same time, it seems to be the understanding of the same bunch and some of the media, that all London rail services, other than the tube, are operated by Southern.

 

 

.

[Coryton]

Some services are rostered for combinations of 220/221 in multiple which presents another obstacle to DOO.

 

Why?

[Ian Hargrave]

Why?

Such services operate with two sets of crew and split at ( normally ) New St.,Temple Meads and Newcastle.Given the configuration of platforms,overcrowding and line of sight (New Street is an example on platforms 9/10). XC work well with platform and train crew in my experience to get thir trains moving to time .....and they have arguably the most awkward network to operate in the UK.

 

Rail transport in Birmingham and the West Midlands has its own unique set of difficulties as it is.New Street is the choke point of the UK rail network North of the Greater London conurbation. Adding to this by the introduction of DOO which I'm sure is possible from a techie point of view is to put it mildly unhelpful.

 

Us lot up here I am sure view your problems with much heartfelt sympathy but decline invitations to participate for the moment in the Great Social Experiment currently underway in London and the South.

[roythebus]

One of the main problems I see is the "cash for claim" culture that has swept the nation. Do as they do in most of Europe, make YOU responsible for YOUR actions, don't blame someone else if you do a Silly Thing. s I said earlier, there's a driver currently waiting for a court case for a passenger being dragged along a platform; there's been a Merseyrail guard on a suspended sentence for basically doing nothing wrong, but someone who tried to board as the train moved was dragged along, and no doubt there's a couple more in the offing. In the latter case, BT Police were actively against the guard, even though disciplinary process found he'd done everything by the book.

 

I discussed driverless trains many years ago with a BR signal engineer. His question "what does the driver do if he sees something on the line?"  "Blows the horn". "What if the object doesn't move"? "Applies the brakes". "Then what, hits it because he can't stop in time". A train with no driver would have the same effect.

 

Auto operation is ok where every train is the same length and to a degree same weight, like the Victoria Line, DLR etc. But NOT on a railway where you can have a light loco weighing say 100 tonnes following a 1200 tonne freight, being followed by a 300 tonne commuter train. All have different braking and acceleration characteristics, all will handle differently. Pure auto operation is not in my opinion an option.

[Mark Saunders]

One of the main problems I see is the "cash for claim" culture that has swept the nation. Do as they do in most of Europe, make YOU responsible for YOUR actions, don't blame someone else if you do a Silly Thing. s I said earlier, there's a driver currently waiting for a court case for a passenger being dragged along a platform; there's been a Merseyrail guard on a suspended sentence for basically doing nothing wrong, but someone who tried to board as the train moved was dragged along, and no doubt there's a couple more in the offing. In the latter case, BT Police were actively against the guard, even though disciplinary process found he'd done everything by the book.

 

I discussed driverless trains many years ago with a BR signal engineer. His question "what does the driver do if he sees something on the line?"  "Blows the horn". "What if the object doesn't move"? "Applies the brakes". "Then what, hits it because he can't stop in time". A train with no driver would have the same effect.

 

Auto operation is ok where every train is the same length and to a degree same weight, like the Victoria Line, DLR etc. But NOT on a railway where you can have a light loco weighing say 100 tonnes following a 1200 tonne freight, being followed by a 300 tonne commuter train. All have different braking and acceleration characteristics, all will handle differently. Pure auto operation is not in my opinion an option.

 

Just wait for the Legal Minefield and the Driverless car, who goes to Prison the owner, the builder or the software designer?

[jjb1970]

As a general observation, people tend to be critical of the alleged litigation culture until they themselves have cause to seek legal redress for something. Yes, there are vexatious legal cases but the legal system tends to work pretty well most of the time. When the media report a silly case in order to mock the law and highlight how the country has gone to hell in a cart there is invariably more to the story than the media presents.

[Rugd1022]

One of the main problems I see is the "cash for claim" culture that has swept the nation. Do as they do in most of Europe, make YOU responsible for YOUR actions, don't blame someone else if you do a Silly Thing. s I said earlier, there's a driver currently waiting for a court case for a passenger being dragged along a platform; there's been a Merseyrail guard on a suspended sentence for basically doing nothing wrong, but someone who tried to board as the train moved was dragged along, and no doubt there's a couple more in the offing. In the latter case, BT Police were actively against the guard, even though disciplinary process found he'd done everything by the book.

 

I discussed driverless trains many years ago with a BR signal engineer. His question "what does the driver do if he sees something on the line?"  "Blows the horn". "What if the object doesn't move"? "Applies the brakes". "Then what, hits it because he can't stop in time". A train with no driver would have the same effect.

 

Auto operation is ok where every train is the same length and to a degree same weight, like the Victoria Line, DLR etc. But NOT on a railway where you can have a light loco weighing say 100 tonnes following a 1200 tonne freight, being followed by a 300 tonne commuter train. All have different braking and acceleration characteristics, all will handle differently. Pure auto operation is not in my opinion an option.

 

Good points raised in your last paragraph Roy, and as you're no doubt aware a 1,200 ton freight train is by no means the heaviest on today's network (ours at FLHH vary anywhere between 300 and 3,300). As for braking characteristics, you can have the same loco and same set of wagons on the same route five days in a row and the braking 'feel' will be different each time.

[Mark Saunders]

As a general observation, people tend to be critical of the alleged litigation culture until they themselves have cause to seek legal redress for something. Yes, there are vexatious legal cases but the legal system tends to work pretty well most of the time. When the media report a silly case in order to mock the law and highlight how the country has gone to hell in a cart there is invariably more to the story than the media presents.

 

Never let the Facts get in the way of a good story!

 

Mark Saunders

[Coryton]

As a general observation, people tend to be critical of the alleged litigation culture until they themselves have cause to seek legal redress for something. Yes, there are vexatious legal cases but the legal system tends to work pretty well most of the time. When the media report a silly case in order to mock the law and highlight how the country has gone to hell in a cart there is invariably more to the story than the media presents.

 

But the problem is that the perception drives extreme risk-aversion and behaviour such as unnecessary warning signs plastered everywhere ("caution - minuscule step") so that you miss the important signs in all the mess of silly ones aimed at preventing litigation.

[Zomboid]

Never let the Facts get in the way of a good story!

 

Mark Saunders

Just come up with some alternative facts and run with those.

[phil-b259]

The latest advice as relates to NR employees

Media rumours about GTR Franchise

Dear colleagues,

Media reports have been circulating that the Department of Transport (DfT) is considering changes to the GTR Franchise, including potentially bringing all or part of it under Government control. This rumour came from a trade publication and was then widely publicised by an RMT press release.

I would not want this speculation to mislead our staff, many of whom work very closely with GTR. The Department for Transport has firmly denied any such plans.

Charles Horton, Chief Executive Officer of GTR, has written to his staff to say: “It is the DfT which is ultimately responsible for the Franchise. Obviously, given this speculation, we were in contact with the Department last night and, in response to other enquiries from the national media, the DfT issued a statement stating the Government had "no plans" to split or strip GTR of the Franchise and said the magazine report was "pure speculation".”

He added that the stories were unhelpful and made up of unwarranted rumour and speculation.

All of us at Network Rail are focused on improving performance and making passengers’ journeys better and it is hugely unhelpful to have these distractions while we are working so closely together with GTR.

We remain committed to work with GTR and will continue our drive up performance.

Many thanks for your continued dedication and hard work,

Edited January 28, 2017 by phil-b259

[Coryton]

Good points raised in your last paragraph Roy, and as you're no doubt aware a 1,200 ton freight train is by no means the heaviest on today's network (ours at FLHH vary anywhere between 300 and 3,300). As for braking characteristics, you can have the same loco and same set of wagons on the same route five days in a row and the braking 'feel' will be different each time.

 

Hmm. 

 

I'm certainly not arguing that current methods of controlling driverless trains can be extended to the "big railway".

 

But I am not at all convinced that something similar to what Google has done to produce effective self-driving cars couldn't be done to produce a driverless train capable of handling anything thrown at it.

 

Yes the weights of trains vary, they handle differently depending on many factors (possibly some intangible). But cars also handle differently depending on the weather, roads have potholes, you have to cope with other traffic coming at you from all directions controlled by unpredictable drivers who do things like sharply braking in front of you without warning. Maybe I'm wrong (I've never driven a train) and I'd be interested if someone can persuade me of that.

 

But I strongly suspect if the effort that has gone into driverless cars had gone into driverless trains we'd be a long way there already.

 

And even if I'm wrong, nobody can say that in 10, 20 or 30 years we won't be there. (Of course maybe by then we'll also have humanoid robots walking down the train, demanding tickets and handing out travel advice...And people won't need to commute because robots are doing their job anyway...)

[Mike Storey]

Regarding the criticism levelled at Pete Wilkinson, at the DfT, he stated this when nearly new to the job:

 

But actually at stations and on trains I agree with you, I think there has always been a strong argument for not just a well-staffed railway but a railway staffed with very well-motivated people, so there is this genuine concern for passenger needs. Partly it’s a safety issue, and I totally support the trades unions on this point; I think they’re right about the risks of de-staffing railways and right to be concerned about the safety of passengers – particularly stations that are very crowded. There is always this slight anxiety and nervousness about getting on that train and you’re stuck in a crush of people. To be honest I want staff at platforms helping people and reassuring them ‘You know what, let it go. There’s another one just two minutes down the track so don’t rush, or crush and cool it folks’.

For me, front line staff are the heroes of this industry, they’re the people who make it work, not people like me in head offices and places; this is a nonsense, we’re just petty bureaucrats. The people who make the railway work every day are very modest, very ordinary people, often not terribly well paid, in parts of this railway that are incredibly congested. And the thought that we would have some agenda to take away, from a public service industry, that level of human commitment seems to me to be just wrong on every level.

 

Either he is not in control, or someone is telling porkies.

[phil-b259]

Regarding the criticism levelled at Pete Wilkinson, at the DfT, he stated this when nearly new to the job:

 

But actually at stations and on trains I agree with you, I think there has always been a strong argument for not just a well-staffed railway but a railway staffed with very well-motivated people, so there is this genuine concern for passenger needs. Partly it’s a safety issue, and I totally support the trades unions on this point; I think they’re right about the risks of de-staffing railways and right to be concerned about the safety of passengers – particularly stations that are very crowded. There is always this slight anxiety and nervousness about getting on that train and you’re stuck in a crush of people. To be honest I want staff at platforms helping people and reassuring them ‘You know what, let it go. There’s another one just two minutes down the track so don’t rush, or crush and cool it folks’.

For me, front line staff are the heroes of this industry, they’re the people who make it work, not people like me in head offices and places; this is a nonsense, we’re just petty bureaucrats. The people who make the railway work every day are very modest, very ordinary people, often not terribly well paid, in parts of this railway that are incredibly congested. And the thought that we would have some agenda to take away, from a public service industry, that level of human commitment seems to me to be just wrong on every level.

 

Either he is not in control, or someone is telling porkies.

I'm sorry but when said person is actually recorded as telling his political friends he intends to "break the unions" and those who disagree can "get the hell out of my industry" - and refuses to retract said comments (in other words not regretting saying them, merely muttering something about them not being official Government policy) - anything he may have said in support of railway staff is total b*****ks.

 

As the saying goes I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

 

DOO is safe as a principle (the specifics will naturally vary from station to station, etc) - but that does not entitle the DfT to use the issue to pursue a neo-liberal agenda where trade Unions are to be crushed, regardless of the consequences.

 

While the RMT action over DOO may be unjustified, us railwaymen (and railwaywomen of course) are fed up of being a political punchbag, and we will not put up being treated like s**t - something Mr Wilkinson and his colleges need to recognise if they want the railway system to improve.

Edited January 28, 2017 by phil-b259

[royaloak]

Another issue for the DfT is that if Govia is actually in default (as opposed to just rubbish) and they don't do anything, it gives others TOCs a stick to beat them with if they are in default.

Govia have been in default at least twice before at Southern and the benchmarks were lowered by the DaFT on both occasions to make it look better than it actually was, but it didnt work and Govia/Southern just got worse and worse.

 

Other TOCs have been watching what is going on and have been making noises about double standards hence DaFT finally looking as if they are going to do something, they would much rather leave Govia in place but the heat from other TOCs is building up quite a lot.

 

The recent showing in front of the Transport Select Committee by certain individuals was deplorable and I would guess that if they had behaved like that in a Court of Law they would have been held in contempt.

 

You wont get a true picture of what is going on from our 'free' press simply because they are 'free' to print what they want or not print what they dont want, and bearing in mind how they destroyed their own Unions back in the 1980s do you honestly think they will give somebody elses Union a fair hearing?

 

I keep hearing a lot about the RMT need to get their message out to the general public so they can be sure about what the dispute is all about (it most certainly isnt about who presses the buttons) but how can they do that if the Press wont print anything the RMT put out?

[phil-b259]

A rumour doing the rounds today is that drivers have been offered a £5000 pay rise if they agree to DOO - and that is why ASLEF have suspended their action (including their very disruptive overtime ban) for talks with Southern.

 

As I said elsewhere, if the DfT strategy works (effectively bribing the drivers to accept DOO) then the RMT are screwed.

[royaloak]

there's been a Merseyrail guard on a suspended sentence for basically doing nothing wrong, but someone who tried to board as the train moved was dragged along, and no doubt there's a couple more in the offing. In the latter case, BT Police were actively against the guard, even though disciplinary process found he'd done everything by the book.

If its the one I am thinking of which has been adjourned again then it was actually the Criminal protection service oops I mean Crown Prosecution Service that instigated that prosecution not the BTP who were tasked with gathering the <lack of> evidence.

[royaloak]

A rumour doing the rounds today is that drivers have been offered a £5000 pay rise if they agree to DOO - and that is why ASLEF have suspended their action (including their very disruptive overtime ban) for talks with Southern.

 

As I said elsewhere, if the DfT strategy works (effectively bribing the drivers to accept DOO) then the RMT are screwed.

What good is that £5K when you are stood in front of the man (or woman) in the funny wig explaining why you thought it was safe to dispatch your train when it obviously wasnt because little Timothy fell down the gap and had his legs removed?

 

Its good to see that ASLEF have listened to their members that it isnt about the money! 

This gives out completely the wrong message to the public and the ASLEF exec should hold their heads in shame, now where is that RMT application form!

 

Edit-

That £5k is only really £2.7K once you take into account the tax and National Insurance deductions.

Edited January 28, 2017 by royaloak

[phil-b259]

What good is that £5K when you are stood in front of the man (or woman) in the funny wig explaining why you thought it was safe to dispatch your train when it obviously wasnt because little Timothy fell down the gap and had his legs removed?

 

Its good to see that ASLEF have listened to their members that it isnt about the money! 

This gives out completely the wrong message to the public and the ASLEF exec should hold their heads in shame, now where is that RMT application form!

 

Edit-

That £5k is only really £2.7K once you take into account the tax and National Insurance deductions.

 

Please be aware its only a rumour - I am not a member of ASLEF neither is my colleague who raised it - he is however in a position to hear things going in in high places.

 

There is also the question of why exactly ASLEF decided to call off their industrial action for talks if something wasn't going on - the DfT / Southern have been clear DOO is a done deal and they will not be going back on that. The RMT can carry on striking all they want, - all it will do is cost their members money in lost wages for months, or even years if necessary.

Edited January 28, 2017 by phil-b259

[phil-b259]

Govia have been in default at least twice before at Southern and the benchmarks were lowered by the DaFT on both occasions to make it look better than it actually was, but it didnt work and Govia/Southern just got worse and worse.

 

Other TOCs have been watching what is going on and have been making noises about double standards hence DaFT finally looking as if they are going to do something, they would much rather leave Govia in place but the heat from other TOCs is building up quite a lot.

 

The recent showing in front of the Transport Select Committee by certain individuals was deplorable and I would guess that if they had behaved like that in a Court of Law they would have been held in contempt.

 

You wont get a true picture of what is going on from our 'free' press simply because they are 'free' to print what they want or not print what they dont want, and bearing in mind how they destroyed their own Unions back in the 1980s do you honestly think they will give somebody elses Union a fair hearing?

 

I keep hearing a lot about the RMT need to get their message out to the general public so they can be sure about what the dispute is all about (it most certainly isnt about who presses the buttons) but how can they do that if the Press wont print anything the RMT put out?

 

The RMT can put as many messages out as they like - the unpleasant truth that members don't want to hear is that after 9 months of disrupted commutes, never being at home to put their kids to bed, lost jobs, missed interviews, crippling extra childcare costs, stress induced heath problems, cancelled visits to see friends and family, etc. 90% of Southern users are just as mad with the RMT as they are with Southern / GTR / DfT.

 

True, at the start public opinion was largely behind the Guards / Drivers - but as the months wore on and the industrial action continued any goodwill has largely evaporated.

 

As one campaign group put it, they just want their daily life back to normal and they couldn't give a sod about how many staff may or may not be on their train - nor who may or may not press the buttons. Why do you think so many people took Southern's misguided posters advising travellers to complain to the RMT as an excuse to launch into verbal or physical assaults on staff?

 

Sure the RMT will always find a few willing supporters amongst the travelling public - but anyone who thinks that represents the majority of Southern users is severely deluded - regardless of how many leaflets / posters / newspaper column inches the RMT issue or have put up in their favour.

Edited January 28, 2017 by phil-b259

[njee20]

What good is that £5K when you are stood in front of the man (or woman) in the funny wig explaining why you thought it was safe to dispatch your train when it obviously wasnt because little Timothy fell down the gap and had his legs removed?

 

Its good to see that ASLEF have listened to their members that it isnt about the money!

This gives out completely the wrong message to the public and the ASLEF exec should hold their heads in shame, now where is that RMT application form!

 

Edit-

That £5k is only really £2.7K once you take into account the tax and National Insurance deductions.

You should write for the Daily Mail with that sensationalism.

 

Re: automation, IMO its naive to assume that because trains vary in weight they can't be automated. How many accidents are caused by a human? Not just rail, but Road, aviation, shipping. People are the weak link, and most certainly aren't infallible. Obviously you can't just stick the DLR 'software' into everything running on the WCML and call it done, but when everything is automated I bet we'll be running more trains at higher speeds with closer separation.