Dapol's new Class 68 locomotives

[newbryford]

From wiki:

The CAT engines meet European Stage IIIA emission standards, and can be modified to meet 2012 IIIB emission standards by replacing the exhaust silencer with a diesel particulate filter

 

From Vossloh's own website

The EUROLIGHT complies with all relevant environmental standards: UIC and EU stage IIIA and update to IIIB

 

As the UKlight is powered by the same CAT175 lump, then I would expect it to meet the same specs.

 

Somehow, the emission regulation doesn't sound feasible to limit a new design at such an early stage in it's history. Why would a builder design a loco that was going to fall foul of regulations so soon?

 

What may be the case is that DRS are supposedly having 41x 68's and this has clouded the issue somewhat.

 

On a slightly related note - emission regs are preventing more 66's being produced after the current run of 23.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Tase]

Thanks for that explanation Mick. I did wonder why the manufacturer would go to all that bother and expense just to produce 41 engines!

cheers

[valeofyork]

According to the current Rail magazine, the engines used in 66s, 70s and 68s cannot be used in new builds for the UK (and presumably all of Europe) after the end of this year due to changing emission regulations.

[dann1997]

The wnxx forum is even worse than RMweb for froth, rumour, counter-rumour and complete speculation. DRS always seem to generate more than their fair share of interesting stories. e.g.  20309 was rumoured to be going to Brush for a "special project" after it failed last week. It certainly looked and sounded fine trundling through Carlisle yesterday with 37423 in tow.

 

Getting back to the 68's, Dapol have issued a press release updating lots of projects across three scales, but no mention of the 68.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Strange that the Class 68 wasn`t mentioned. I thought this would be one of the main projects for Dapol.

[dann1997]

Talking to Neil McNicolas last Friday at a talk, I enquired about the Class 68 model. He immediately emailed away to get an answer. He later confirmed Dapol are to produce the Class 68 under exclusive rights and were due to visit on-site this week to take photos and measurements (I dont know did this actually happen). A slight tangent he also mentioned due to EU regulation of engine emissions, only 41 Class 68s can ever be produced. He also confirmed that the Class 68 shall not be in Northern Belle livery, but he expects more Class 47s to be placed in that livery to live out their days. I think the Class 68 model is a long way off! (But we might also find it in a certain silver and grey livery )

 

Looks like its pretty certain that their won`t be any 68s brought into Northern Belle Livery then. Yes I suppose DRS could repaint another Class 47 to match 790 in Northern Belle Livery. I certainly don`t think the model will be arriving this year. I would expect late 2015 or 2016.

 

Nothing to stop them painting another 47 in NB livery though, is there!

 

I don`t suppose their is really.

[newbryford]

According to the current Rail magazine, the engines used in 66s, 70s and 68s cannot be used in new builds for the UK (and presumably all of Europe) after the end of this year due to changing emission regulations.

 

66's certainly can't meet the emission regs, which is why the last ones are being delivered later this year.

 

Vossloh have stated that the CAT 175 can meet these regs. Even when the regs change, there is a "sell-on" period which is normally two years.

 

Then again - it's in Rail, so it must be correct..........

 

Cheers,

Mick

[valeofyork]

Then again - it's in Rail, so it must be correct..........

 

Yes, that's why I made sure I quoted the source!

 

Don't usually buy it but this edition had an article on the rebuilding of 73s with new engines which I was interested in.

[Traksy]

Apparently the class 68 has a EU IIIA-compliant engine while the class 88 has EU IIIB engine (which should be ok).

[Class 74]

Two nice pix of the class 68:

 

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

[159220]

Good to see the Class 68 confirmed in the catalogue. Dapol very friendly said the 68 shall be out in 2015. No RRP prices in the price sheet which was on the stand at Alexandra Palace. 

 

Also great to see that the IDA SuperLow 45 wagons shall be just the wagons and not with containers. I don't know about others, but I prefer to buy my containers separately, so good news. 

[dan1997]

Thank you for the information regarding the Class 68s.

 

I haven`t seen the new Dapol catalogue as yet but its good to hear that the DRS Class 68 is confirmed for arrival in 2015.

 

Regarding the DRS 47s I`m unsure as to what will happen now with locos to remain in traffic, to go into storage and their liveries. 802 and 832 are now both stored XHSS at Kingmoor leaving just 790 in traffic in Northern Belle livery. However 810 has just been repainted into the new Class 68 livery at Eastleigh Works.

[newbryford]

Thank you for the information regarding the Class 68s.

 However 810 has just been repainted into the new Class 68 livery at Eastleigh Works.

 

Keep up at the back Dan!

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77024-class-47-photos/page-13&do=findComment&comment=1505634

 

I wonder if Dapol will also do the 68's in silver/grey fro the Chiltern services?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Guest 43300]

It's mentioned in this month's Modern Railways that two of the 57/3s which DRS have just taken on from Network Rail might get Northern Belle livery.

 

Back on topic, Rail Express have a couple of photos of the first two 68s for Chiltern: https://twitter.com/railexpress/status/491518737812836353

[cheesysmith]

IIRC the situation with the Euro5 emission standards is that the diesel engine will require a exhaust treatment like adblu and a particulate trap to burn off the black soot smoke. The problems arise because we have a limited loading gauge to fit it into. The major engine builders have EU5 compliant engines or can make compliant engines, but it requires investment that may only have limited returns. At the moment the market in Europe for the big medium speed diesel engines in rail use is almost nil, most people are buying electrics with small high speed donkey/last mile engines, for which there is a ready made market and products available(trucks & busses).

 

There was a clause in the last EU emission reg that allow a limited number of follow on non compliant engines to be made, which is why you have the follow on orders for the 66 and the limit on the numbers of 68s.

 

Another effect of the EU5 regs is that the fuel consumption of the new engines has actually increased, and the smoothness gone down, whilst the noise has gone up due to the need for the peak cylinder pressure to rise more rapidly and a increase in temperature in the cylinder when ignition occurs. This has already happened in busses, where a EU5 bus with the same mass, better 7 speed gearbox, part time aux load equipment has almost half the fuel economy of a old EU2 bus with a bigger engine and only a 5 speed box.

[geoffwba]

Just to whet your appetites, here is the real 68004 Rapid, at the DRS Crewe Gresty Bridge open day on July 19th.  I think they are quite photogenic in the DRS blue livery, but as one DRS guy told me "they won't stay that clean for long!"

I am not so keen on the silver Chiltern livery though.

[steam-driven boy]

Hi,

Noticed this on the Dapol N Product Development page about a week ago:

 

Awaiting Information from DRS. An ETA on this model at this moment is imposible to determine.

I don't know how long it's been there, [glass half full mode 'on'] hopefully whatever the problem was might have been resolved and they haven't updated yet?

 

Regards, Gerry 8)

[Roy L S]

Given that they have secured exclusive rights to manufacture the model (and have held this exclusivity for quite a while now). I would have hoped they might be a bit further forward and pushing on an open door at DRS as far as get things moving is concerned? It appears then that they are now not even committing to a 2015 timescale?

 

The locos are even running on UK metals now and I would really have hoped and expected Dapol might be a little more dynamic given the opportunity they have to produce an exclusive model of a brand new loco in two scales.

 

Roy

[Guest 43300]

Given that they have secured exclusive rights to manufacture the model (and have held this exclusivity for quite a while now). I would have hoped they might be a bit further forward and pushing on an open door at DRS as far as get things moving is concerned? It appears then that they are now not even committing to a 2015 timescale?

 

The locos are even running on UK metals now and I would really have hoped and expected Dapol might be a little more dynamic given the opportunity they have to produce an exclusive model of a brand new loco in two scales.

 

Roy

 

Indeed. How long did it take Bachmann to produce the Class 70 (again in both scales)?

Edited July 27, 2014 by 43300

[159220]

The page linked above has not been updated since 3rd June. I have found an update from 19th July on the Dapol's Facebook page where Dapol quotes that the project is underway and news shall be posted shortly on Facebook and their website. I hope this means drawings/CAD. Dapol also says on FB they are sincerely hoping for a 2015 release. Link (under posts to page): https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dapol-Ltd

 

Bachmann annonced the Class 70 on the 27th November 2009, and delivered the Limited Edition 70001 during early December 2010. I would suspect from reading the press statement that Bachmann had been working on the Class 70 before this announcement. http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pr1.php?id=246

Edited July 27, 2014 by 159220

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

I would also agree that I thought Dapol would be more dynamic with the new Class 68s.

 

They have been given exclusive rights to produce the models in not just one gauge but two! This will probably mean that their will be more then one loco in each gauge (different running numbers) available which I am sure will fulfil their selling potential seen as though each loco carries a name.

 

I was expecting a 2015 delivery as well. I did think that Dapol would be more dynamic so that the model would be available in both gauges ASAP. Purely because of how popular they are. I know for a fact that depending on how many running numbers are produced in 00 gauge that I will be having at least two probably more if they are released.

[Guest 43300]

Probably nothing to stop them doing the Chiltern livery either. As I understand it they would need an agreement to reproduce copyrighted company names / logos, but the Chiltern locos don't have this - the branding is all on the carriages.

[Clagmeister]

26 is the actual maximum number of Cat 175-16 fitted 68's.  The PU's have to be built by 31st December this year.  Nothing else as it stands will fit in a 68.  Anything built later would certainly sound duller anyway.  16-26 to be built from Nov 2015 onwards iirc.

[PenrithBeacon]

I saw one these today at Scout Green, light engine going north. I thought it was an attractive engine with an unusual sounding dieseasel.

 

Regards

[jjb1970]

I read the editorial in Rail the other day (its not a mag I normally buy but the cover on Hitachi's EMU caught my interest) and found it both tendentious and ill informed and pretty cringe inducing. My main area of responsibility is emissions from marine engines and I see all of the same arguments from the marine industry as expressed in Rail, its too expensive, we haven't had enough time, its unfair, modal shift etc etc but when you deconstruct all the arguments it basically boils down to not wanting to change. The electricity generating sector went through the same cycle of arguing that emissions abatement was expensive, not needed, it would be unfair, the sky would fall in etc etc and when they realised that it wasn't optional they just got on with it. There are all sorts of options for emissions abatement, and rail actually has a head start as by using 10ppm sulphur fuel it makes SCR operability an awful lot less problematic than if using high sulphur fuels. The new emissions tiers actually offer the potential to make engines more efficient as by fitting after treatment it removes the rationale for playing with timing to reduce NOx and balance CO, PM and you can tune the engine for maximum efficiency which is also generally better for CO and PM and then knock the NOx out in an SCR. And SCR is not a new technology, its been in use for decades. EGR is another option, pushing engines onto an extreme Miller cycle, fuel emulsification etc, there are various options. Longer term I believe in engine technology with very high pressure pulsating injection will be the best solution but that technology is not yet ready for these type of engines. Most industries play the game of delaying any efforts to comply with regulations and then argue that they don't have enough time which is not very edifying. There is also a chicken and egg situation in that manufacturers are not going to develop a product unless they're confident it'll sell and operators can't buy a product which isn't available to buy. I do have a lot of sympathy for the engine builders as a few of them have been burnt badly developing new technologies well in advance of implementation dates only to see customers wait until one minute to midnight before taking any interest. The entirely predictable consequence is that having been once burned they wait until the last minute themselves next time.

[Steve Williams]

If looking for a nickname for these locomotives, 'Chipmunks' seems most appropriate:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/14803934888/

Edited August 22, 2014 by Steve Williams