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DCC concepts ADS-2fx solenoid decoder


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Hi all,

 

I bought my first ADS-2fx solenoid decoder I was after the AD-S8fx but the shop only stocked this version.

 

The ability to have a toggle switch and DCC control is perfect along with the extra led and frog polarity switches although I think I will keep my indicator board led's wired to the point solenoids so I now that they have changed. 

 

I have wired it up to fire 2 Seep pm1 point motors from decoder #1 and the relay is clicking but the pint motors do not fire? 

 

This is a new install so everything is new but I have tested the point solenoids with a Gaugemaster CDU and on-off-on switch just to make sure. 

 

I have now swapped the wiring to decoder #2 and it works so my question here is what ould I have done wrong?

 

I was careful not to short any wires, I didn't turn it on until it was all wired and none of the magic blue smoke has escaped!

 

I have emailed DCC concepts but I thought I would ask and here too just in case anyone has ha the same issues?

 

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  • RMweb Gold

I have 2 ADS - 8fx units and on one of them one of the decoders behaved exactly as you describe.  As I didn't need all 8 decoders on that particular board I just decided to let it go. 

It may be a quality control issue or both of us might be just unlucky.  I have heard though that DCC concepts are very good at dealing with faulty products and returns.

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Hi

Have you tried just one Seep motor on that original output?  If so, did that work as expected or not?  If not have you programmed the AD-S8fx correctly for the first port?  Try re sending its address setting again with its dedicated switch in the Set or Learn position 

Does it operate one and then two Seeps when the Push Button control is tried rather than the DCC console operation?  Allow a couple of seconds to elapse between each operation to ensure the on board capacitor has time to fully recharge.

Edited by Brian
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Thanks for the response I haven't had any time today to test a single solenoid on decoder #1.

 

I have already tried both dcc and switch input in to the decoder and both times you can hear the relay but the out put doesn't change.

 

I will update this once I have tested

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I have wired up a new point motor to decoder #1 and I get the same result the switch and DCC controller make the relay click but the solenoid doesn't move...

Does the clicking noise occur when you power up / switch on the DCC system?

Does the clicking noise occur once you process the Address number for the point motor?

 

I have a similar problem with JMRI/SPROG/ADS-2FX

It got so bad I disconnected everything, disconnected from the track connecting the ADS-2FX only

The ADS-2FX clicks twice when I switch on the equipment

There is no response when either trying to set or use the Address

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Sorry, very new here (model railways and this forum).

 

Found this thread whilst searching with the same problem - I have 1 x ADS-8fx plus 1 x ADS-2fx - and tried swapping the DCC power connectors on the ADS-8fx (um, maybe I read that on a different post), but it didn't help me. I'd been using a multi-meter to confirm that the LED lines were switching and it was "just" the solenoid that wasn't firing. I also had one solenoid "ticking".

 

Tried running some temporary cables from the decoders to the points solenoids (just in case I'd used too thin wire), also not change (phew, I had tested things earlier so I'd done all the wiring and didn't relish rewiring!).

 

Not sure what made me do it, but I slackened off the screws holding the solenoids to the base board and that sorted it - guess I overtightened and put pressure on the solenoid.

 

I am also running a couple of the ADS-8fx outputs to a pair of solenoids (two solenoids connected to one output - 3 like that - not two ports using the same address) and they seem happy (well, now I slackened off the screws slightly ;) )

 

Got to lay and fix the track back now, so maybe I haven't actually won yet but hopefully we'll see over the next couple of days.

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  • RMweb Gold

I had the same issue.

Found there was a break in one wire to the point motor, so an easy fix.

Id50 has stated something I also had, try connecting the new point motor to decoder one, but leave the point motor hanging, that is don't connect it to the actual point itself and operate it then.

It could be just the point with the over centre spring being a little too stiff for it to move, as decoder 2 is operating both motors correctly I would guess everything is free though but worth checking.

If using the toggle switch to operate the point then it wouldn't be an addressing issue, which only leaves the accessory decoder itself, and seeing how many others have experienced a similar issue it might be on its way back to DCC concepts, at least they are in the UK now as well!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

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Does the clicking noise occur when you power up / switch on the DCC system?

Does the clicking noise occur once you process the Address number for the point motor?

 

I have a similar problem with JMRI/SPROG/ADS-2FX

It got so bad I disconnected everything, disconnected from the track connecting the ADS-2FX only

The ADS-2FX clicks twice when I switch on the equipment

There is no response when either trying to set or use the Address

 

Hi Mjkerr,

 

I can't be 100% sure but I think the ADS-2fx does click when I power it up the programming is successful and it responds to the DCC control the same on both decoders with no load attached.

 

Frustratingly I have wired the double point to the Gaugemaster CDU and it does not have enough to move them both but it is powered from a 12v source rather than the DCC bus I assume it will work on both?

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Sorry, very new here (model railways and this forum).

 

Found this thread whilst searching with the same problem - I have 1 x ADS-8fx plus 1 x ADS-2fx - and tried swapping the DCC power connectors on the ADS-8fx (um, maybe I read that on a different post), but it didn't help me. I'd been using a multi-meter to confirm that the LED lines were switching and it was "just" the solenoid that wasn't firing. I also had one solenoid "ticking".

 

Tried running some temporary cables from the decoders to the points solenoids (just in case I'd used too thin wire), also not change (phew, I had tested things earlier so I'd done all the wiring and didn't relish rewiring!).

 

Not sure what made me do it, but I slackened off the screws holding the solenoids to the base board and that sorted it - guess I overtightened and put pressure on the solenoid.

 

I am also running a couple of the ADS-8fx outputs to a pair of solenoids (two solenoids connected to one output - 3 like that - not two ports using the same address) and they seem happy (well, now I slackened off the screws slightly ;) )

 

Got to lay and fix the track back now, so maybe I haven't actually won yet but hopefully we'll see over the next couple of days.

 

Hi Thanks, I will try and slacken off the screws. I must admit have had a habit of over-tightening screw so that is a very real possibility

 

Nick 

Edited by nicolasgreenin
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  • 1 month later...

I wanted to update you all on the progress of this.

 

The kind chaps at DCC concepts in the UK have tested the decoder and there is a fault in the power output and they are sending out a replacement unit.

 

I have since bought and installed an ADS-8fx which works like a charm. 

 

I am still to test out the frog function as my test track only has Hornby points please see my layout post of updates on how the main layout is coming along. (when I get started)

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122082-brambleford-layout/

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I apologise if I am seen to be hi-jacking this thread but the OP's issue with the ADS 8fx seems to have been sorted. I have just bought one of these and am about to install it. Before I do I have a couple of questions.

 

1 Obvious (to me but maybe not to those who know better) point on the wiring diagram in the instructions. It shows the frog wiring taking the pos and neg wires to the point rails. My electrofrg points all have the rails wired into the bus so I am assuming I can take the pos and neg wires from the frog wiring terminals on the ADS 8fx straight to the bus wires which run close by. 

 

2 What thickness wires are people using to successfully fire the solenoids. I am using Peco PL10 solenoids which may be up to a metre away from the ADS 8fx.

 

3 Following point 2, how long can the wires from the ADS 8fx to the point solenoid be? My layout is 30ft long with some distance between some of the points.

 

4 Lastly (and a bit hopeful!) I see that the ADS 8fx only requires one feed from the bus to operate all 8 outlets but when you connect number one to the bus do all the other 7 "DCC/DC" terminals become live? I guess you can see where my thoughts are going here in terms of frog power!

 

Many thanks for any answers.

 

Cheers

 

John

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  • RMweb Gold

1.  Yes, I have taken droppers from the bus to the frog wiring terminals and everything works fine.

2&3 I use SEEP solenoids and so can't comment on wire needed or length issues  for Peco. I used 16/0.2 for the solenoids and have one that works 2 m away.  That's the max that I have.

4.  On my board there are not 7 other DCC/DC terminals just another 3 giving 4 in total. I think the 8fx is simply 4  lots of 2fx on the same board hence only 4 lots of DCC/DC terminals. 

I mounted the 8fx on a piece of plywood with linked terminal connector blocks/earth blocks so that one pair of droppers from the bus, via these connector blocks fed one DC/DCC terminal and all of the frog power feeds via short links.  the main bus is 32/0.2 and all links and droppers are 16/0.2.

 

Edit this connectivity may not work if you are splitting your layout into power blocks/districts in which case you may need to take connections  from the appropriate buses.

Edited by BoD
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All valid question John, and thanks BoD for answering as I have not enough experience with either the ADS8fx or the ADS2fx yet I am still in the planning stage of my main layout.

 

I brought some Gaugemaster Controls GM10  (7 strand 0.2mm 24awg) to wire the points on my test track and it works perfectly but the DCC guys recommended I use something a little heavier gauge so I was planning on using 20awg. 

 

Let me know how you get on John

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All valid question John, and thanks BoD for answering as I have not enough experience with either the ADS8fx or the ADS2fx yet I am still in the planning stage of my main layout.

 

I brought some Gaugemaster Controls GM10  (7 strand 0.2mm 24awg) to wire the points on my test track and it works perfectly but the DCC guys recommended I use something a little heavier gauge so I was planning on using 20awg. 

 

Let me know how you get on John

 

I have decided to play it safe and have ordered some 32/.2mm cable as recomended by DCC. I will be operating two sets of points from each of three of the outlets and the other five sets of points will be up to 2 metres away. When the c able arrives and I fit the ADS 8fx I will let you know how it goes. If it goes really well I will replace my Lenz LS150 with the Cobalt items.

 

Cheers

 

John

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  • 2 months later...

I have discovered another issue with my ADS-8fx I am now building my full layout with peco electro frog points and 2 of the points the frog polarity defaults to the wrong way once the point is thrown it resets back I have tried swapping the frog inputs around but this make the polarity wrong all the time? Has anyone else had this issue it only happens on 2 points out of the 5 that I have wired up so far.

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I only had this problem after a short or power down where the lack of memory defaulted the frog polarity to the base setting irrespective of the points position. The ADS8sx doesn't have this problem.

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I briefly has a ADS8fx which when I tested it was faulty and have arranged a swop for some Cobalt IP Digital motors - a pair of Train Tech point decoders replacing the ADS8fx. Before I tested it I had raised the issue of whether all 8 modules could be worked by a single push switch being aware of this issue with the frog polarity going out of sync when power was removed. The advice I got from DCC Concepts (and which I never had chance to try out) is that a diode should be taken from each 'momentary COM terminal' (the anode side of the diodes fitted to those terminals) . The cathode ends of the diodes being wired together and taken to the push switch. A further set of diodes wired anodes ends together to the push switch and the cathode ends taken to the requisite momentary L or R terminals.

 

Following this information I mused over whether this could be automated thinking of a simple pulse when the DCC power is switched on, then it dawned on me that as the CDUs will be charged all that it needs is for relay contacts to replace the push switch. The relay coil is wired (through a bridge rectifier) direct to the DCC supply such that when the DCC supply is live the relay contacts do not make a connection between the sets of diodes but when the power fails contact is made and the CDUs in the ADS8fx discharge changing all the points that need to be changed to sync the frogs when power is restored.

 

Now this can be even simpler with the ADS2fx as no diodes would be needed - you simply take the 2 sets of wires from the COM terminals and the those from the appropriate momentary L or R terminals to either side of DPDT relay.

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I wired another point t the ADS-fx8 yesterday and when I turned the system on it was constantly buzzing as if it was shorted out somewhere. I powered off and removed the point that I had just added and it still buzzed so I systematically removed all the points and powering on until the short was removed and I ended up with just 2 points remaining from the 5 that were working! I think the short was caused by a strand from a DC bus on the frog side shorting and the main issue is that the ADS-8fx is mounted upside down under the layout and the access is not great and some of the DCC bus wires were a little short and messy so I am now going to remove the unit and mount it on a section of ply so I can bench wire the DCC bus to all the frog inputs. I have 1x ADS-fx2 and 1x ADS-2sx to wire too so I will add them too. This will also give me a chance to solder the LED outputs to a junction board or something.

 

So I hope that I can wire all the points so the frog polarity is correct at rest.

 

Thanks

 

Nick

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I would certainly mount the ADS8fx on a piece of wood and pre-wire the frog feeds. I did this and it saved a lot of hassle. However, experience with these units has shown me (to my cost!) that any "shorts" or stray wires/screw drivers touching anything  when it is powered up can easily fry one or more outputs so that they don't work any more. Even if you get them wired up properly you will not solve the frog polarity problem due to the memory issue (see above posts).

 

If you find that one or more outputs are not working I would suggest you consider contacting DCC concepts who may be able to help. I have changed all mine for ADS8SX units - well worth it!

Edited by JST
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I would contact the supplier - its plainly faulty / not fit for purpose. IME something that too many of their products suffer from either through poor design or lack of adequate protection against users making a wrong connection. The problem with any CDU is that part of the circuit can be live way after the power is off and a stray wire (one of the 16 in a 16/0.2 wire for example) can easily connect with the wrong terminal. The Cobalt Point motors (the Digital IP ones at least) have a warning label stuck across some of the terminals - apparently if you mistakenly attach wires carrying power to them you will destroy the circuity. Obviously the same warning labels should have been applied to these. Makes me think too much cost cutting and some protection ought to be built in. Its not a problem I am aware of with any other make of DCC point modules.

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  • 4 years later...

I'm having related problem with my AD-2Fx decoders, though I can't for the life of me think why.  These were working 100% correctly a couple of days ago.  Because I was having a problem with a digital Cobalt IP, DCC Concepts recommended that I reset my Digitrax DCS 51 to factory condition, which I did.  The problem with the Cobalt IP seems to have gone away but now none of the AD-2Fx boards are working correctly.  As mentioned above, when attempting to change direction all that happens is I hear a light click from the point motor, a Cobalt analogue one.  I can change the address of the decoder without any problem as when I do the light click sound then moves to the new address.  It really is frustrating.  From a Digitrax source is the suggestion of resetting the AD-2Fx to factory condition, but as far as I aware this isn't possible.  I certainly cannot find any mention of such an instruction on the DCC Concepts site.

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