Radstock - Midford Tramway at Wellow

[Tim V]

Interesting Phil.

 

But I've seen plenty of early pictures showing thatch in this part of Somerset. Bricks & tiles were very heavy, so the canal would have to be used to transport them. To get to the Wellow/Radstock area would involve by sea from Highbridge to Bristol, then via canal - not very likely for my model.

 

The railways would have widened the markets for the brick/tile producers - but that was much later.

 

Don't forget why Midsomer Norton was reputedly called that - could only be reached in the middle of summer, because of the chopped up roads. The turnpikes did little to alleviate this.

[phil_sutters]

Interesting Phil.

 

But I've seen plenty of early pictures showing thatch in this part of Somerset. Bricks & tiles were very heavy, so the canal would have to be used to transport them. To get to the Wellow/Radstock area would involve by sea from Highbridge to Bristol, then via canal - not very likely for my model.

 

The railways would have widened the markets for the brick/tile producers - but that was much later.

 

Don't forget why Midsomer Norton was reputedly called that - could only be reached in the middle of summer, because of the chopped up roads. The turnpikes did little to alleviate this.

I appreciate that. The photos are well after your period. I was really responding to the query about the tile making. My Highbridge Wharf project has widened my knowledge of the industries in the area. Much as I would like a brick works in my scene, I have enough with the timber yard, cattle dock and fuel brickette plant, actually in the wharf confines, which are all under way.

Edited August 26, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Tim V]

A picture of Wellow, where some of the roofs are thatched, be quick it's on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sa-155-Wellow-Somerset-Photo-/331847063274?hash=item4d43a056ea:g:aRMAAOSwLs5XKKjj

[Siberian Snooper]

A picture of Wellow, where some of the roofs are thatched, be quick it's on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sa-155-Wellow-Somerset-Photo-/331847063274?hash=item4d43a056ea:g:aRMAAOSwLs5XKKjj

Some tiles as well.

[Tim V]

Further research on the Bathintime site reveals:

 

thatched cottages:

 

http://www.bathintime.co.uk/image/236297/the-old-manor-house-wellow-c-1850

http://www.bathintime.co.uk/image/342926/dafnis-george-love-the-ford-at-wellow-c-1920s

http://www.bathintime.co.uk/image/375239/dafnis-george-love-the-ford-at-wellow-1892

 

Stone blocks:

 

http://www.bathintime.co.uk/image/803958/somersetshire-coal-canal-stone-sleeper-blocks-at-welton-radstock-c-1969

Some tiles as well.

 

Yes, but this picture is well after my period, merely shows that thatch used to predominate.

[BG John]

I know it's a bit outside the area, but when I was house hunting in South Somerset some years ago, I looked at a few thatched cottages, and quite a lot that obviously had been thatched originally. There are quite a lot in West Somerset, where I ended up, too, so thatch was certainly common in a lot of Somerset.

[Tim V]

A breakthrough? Found this drawing of a waggon at Norton Hill colliery. http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/18/NG_Wagons_7.htm OK, it's for a different gauge, and it's for edge rails, but it gives me a starting point.

[Tim V]

Finally got my hands, via inter library lending, a copy of Bertram Baxter's "Stone Blocks and Iron Rails". I read this more years ago than I care to remember - the Bath Reference Library probably about 1972.

 

Why is it that books like this in the Industrial Archeology series have not been reprinted/updated? Too obscure?

[Tim V]

Sent my form in today.

 

Closing date for entries is 23rd September - in case any other cameo layout competitors read this!

[Edwardian]

Sent my form in today.

 

Closing date for entries is 23rd September - in case any other cameo layout competitors read this!

 

And lead me not into temptation ...

[Tim V]

Progress has been made. The Tim Horn baseboards are in my possession, but not yet assembled. Some full size planning was made today. Looks like quite a few cottages to build.

 

Trying to decide if the siding would have been laid on the wharf, or beside the wharf. On the wharf would mean less infilling for the tramway builders. Plus an opportunity for a derelict barge, abandoned by the wharf. Barges were used on the canal, but at its closure they were offered for sale. It is inconclusive if they were actually sold.

 

I remember the derelict barges on the Kennet & Avon. Even saw a couple of derelicts recently near Tardebigge Top Lock.

[Tim V]

Made mock-ups of the tunnel and the bridge. Photographed here alongside a 13T open (1923 RCH 100 years later!) to give some sense of scale for avid thread readers.

For those who know the area, the S&D Wellow signal box was built (much later) in the space on the left.

 

 

[Tim V]

A real turn up, a convincing horse. If he can do it, so can I. I am certainly thinking about how to do it.

[Siberian Snooper]

That is some trick, I have not seen a gee gee do that before, can you please tell me where the prototype is.

 

Hat & coat and on me way to the door.

 

On a serious note, that is dammed clever.

[BG John]

Any idea how he made it move like that? It doesn't look quite convincing to me, but I think it's pretty close.

[Tim V]

Ask him at Warley!

 

It was built for Ijsselstein, but he uses a steam tram now.

 

 

 

[BG John]

Ask him at Warley!

Rather difficult when I'll be at home in Wales!

[D869]

Just been belatedly reading some of these threads. Good luck with this project.

 

The horses are impressive from a mechanical perspective but I think the reason they look unconvincing is that they appear to be in trot rather than walk, albeit lacking the bounce that goes with trot. Trot is less difficult to do mechanically because the horse's legs move in opposing pairs. A trotting tramway horse is not impossible but walk would be the usual gait. Walk is more difficult mechanically because all four legs move separately.

 

You'll find plenty of equestrian videos online. Here's a dressage horse being lunged. It's still tricky to get your head around the dynamics of a horse in walk until you see it in slomo. Funnily enough horses seem to be able to do it without resorting to YouTube.

 

 

A decent slomo draught horse video may be more difficult to find. This one starts the slomo too late but the horse in the mid distance later on are better shown

 

 

I've seen film of BR shunting horses struggling like this, but you probably don't want to try this kind of action...

 

 

HTH, it's definitely not an easy problem that you have picked!

 

Regards, Andy

[Tim V]

An update, I have discovered a tithe map of the area from 1843 is available to view, guess where I will be going shortly.

[D869]

Is the tithe map available anywhere online? While handing the real thing in a record office is an interesting experience (they are not small - you will need to reserve a large table), paying money to see a decent scan online may be less logistically challenging. My interest is Cornwall so not sure what the situation is for Somerset.

 

Regards, Andy

[Tim V]

Unfortunately, no I have to inspect it at Somerset Records office. I'm expecting to make an appointment.

[D869]

I take it you checked 'The Genealogist' (https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/tithe/) ?

 

I got this reference from the national archives page

 

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/tithes/

 

I've never tried this site myself and I'm not sure if they have your parish or not though - it probably depends on whether TNA have a copy of the map for your parish (in theory both the county records office and TNA have a copy each, but it aint always so).

 

BTW, you may be able to do this without paying - I think they have a free trial period. You could also ask your local library and your local LDS (mormon) church whether they have subscriptions that can be used by visitors. I've certainly used ancestry.com at my local LDS church - they were very helpful people and didn't try to convert me.

 

If you do end up going to the county office then have fun and remember to book a big table. Getting decent photos (if they allow it) of such huge maps can also be very taxing on your arms.

 

 

Regards, Andy

[Tim V]

There are those detractors that think this is some great wind up! So I have to report that, as yet, I have not made my way to the Somerset Record Office, but I have seen a small extract from the map which is exciting. But I have been building, here is a mockup of a waggon, standing by a thatched cottage. Using 2mm association wheels, mounted on extended axles. OK, they're not right, but they are pretty close. This waggon is built in plastic, but I'm intending using wood for the production waggons, easier to stain and weather.

[Tim V]

It looks a bit small, so I did some investigation. On re-reading my information, the waggons carried 27cwt, which equates to about 59 cubic feet. One source says the waggons were 8' long, but that would make them 2' high.

 

I need to think about this. Pictures of plateway waggons show them to be quite high.

[Adam]

I take it you checked 'The Genealogist' (https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/tithe/) ?

 

I got this reference from the national archives page

 

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/tithes/

 

I've never tried this site myself and I'm not sure if they have your parish or not though - it probably depends on whether TNA have a copy of the map for your parish (in theory both the county records office and TNA have a copy each, but it aint always so).

 

BTW, you may be able to do this without paying - I think they have a free trial period. You could also ask your local library and your local LDS (mormon) church whether they have subscriptions that can be used by visitors. I've certainly used ancestry.com at my local LDS church - they were very helpful people and didn't try to convert me.

 

If you do end up going to the county office then have fun and remember to book a big table. Getting decent photos (if they allow it) of such huge maps can also be very taxing on your arms.

 

 

Regards, Andy

 

Slightly to my surprise, the Tithe award maps for the area now in BANES aren't on Know Your Place West: http://maps.bristol.gov.uk/kyp/?edition=banes - those for Wiltshire (as of last week), Somerset and Gloucestershire are and they're a seriously useful tool in my day job

 

The tithe maps for Wellow are indeed at Taunton  in two copies and a smaller, more convenient version for reference:

 

http://somerset-cat.swheritage.org.uk/records/DD/SAS/C2401/7 (Small)

 

http://somerset-cat.swheritage.org.uk/records/D/P/wlw/3/2/2 (Parish)

 

http://somerset-cat.swheritage.org.uk/records/D/D/Rt/M/303 (Diocesan)

 

That's a full house, with the apportionments as well, which is nice and relatively unusual.

 

Adam