Class 205 in Conjunction with Kernow Model Shop

[Graham_Muz]

From this weeks Kernow newsletter

 

Production of our Class 205 Thumper unit has been switched from Dapol to Bachmann. Bachmann have gained a lot of experience when developing their excellent Southern EMU models and will use the knowledge gained to produce a high quality model. We are able to offer a DCC Sound fitted version and also reduce the price of the models to be released in the first batch.

 

If you have already placed a pre-order for any of our Thumper units you need not contact us as we will amend it automatically. If you wish to change your order to one of the above four models that will be produced first you can either call or email us. You can also place a new order through our website and add a note to the customer message field that you are replacing an existing order.

 

I will just re-iterate that you do not need to contact us about an existing order as we will amend it automatically.

 

In the next few weeks we will have updates on our Beattie Well Tank, Tiger Clay Wagon and D600 Warship models which are all progressing with Dapol as planned.

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

I think this change in manufacture is excellant and I'm hoping the detail of the Class 205 is to the same level as the 4-CEP!

 

If it is, I'll certainly be getting one!

 

Simon

[gillinghamgus]

They finished on the South Western division when the loco hauled was withdrawn in 1992/3 I got bowled out for one at Exeter Central in 1991 thought I was leaping from a class 50 onto another loco hauled and one of these came up the bank! Oh c**p down the pub then. (Don't get me wrong I liked these as units but not for haulage and not when the vacs were booked to go!) I think they slowly went off the area during the first batch of 159's in 1992/93? The Kenny O was electric by then and Basingstoke - Reading went over to Thames turbos that summer too and the last of the Hampshires and Sussex units were on the Brighton - Hastings - Asford and Oxted - Uckfield line.

 

Back on topic, My order for the NSE still stands and I can/will wait for the centre car, As for the blue grey 3H I will have at least 2 of those please when they go on to build em. As far as I know Kernow went with 2 cars as that's how the first sets were built and they didn't want to go all the way with 3 cars unless it was worth it?.... I am sure they now know the answer to that with the Bachmann 4 CEP sales surely?

 

Another advantage of Bachmann getting this work is once Kernow have milked this cash cow then may be the front ends can be converted to the Sussex class 207's with rounded cab ends, the 2 HAP is the other usage of spare moulds or restamped moulds?

[woodenhead]

Would be interesting to know the reason for the change in developer though.

 

Mention again about cost being lower with Bachmann, clearly their production system over Dapol and Hornby's is winning business.

[Gwiwer]

I think the fairly terse statement from Kernow is a good indication that we are not about to learn any more behind the reasoning for the switch of manufacturers. The original manufacturer, who is represented among our membership, has maintained a diplomatic silence on the issue here as befits a professional in the industry.

 

Kernow has previously indicated that about half the original production run of 7 variants had been pre-sold. With the new announcement that only three liveries are now coming in the first batch (still put at sometime in 2011) those who really wanted one of the other four may have to wait even longer. The addition of a sound-fitted one is welcome however and should shake the trestles as the EE power unit fires up at a few exhibition stands in due course! To hear one of those units start up at and depart from Portsmouth Harbour was a remarkable assault on the ears as the exhaust reverberated around the station and the heavy axle-loading thumped (in another sense!) the daylights out of the tracks out over the water.

 

I don't doubt that a 3H will appear sometime. I don't much doubt that Bachmann will utilise their skill to get the most out of the various SR toolings and consider a 2HAP / 4EPB though there are differences between electric and diesel vehicles. I have no doubts either that a blue-grey 3H will appear though not with an EPB driving trailer (which would make a 3T) but with the standard 3H centre coach. And I don't doubt Dapol will continue to serve Kernow and their customers well and I look forward to their Beattie well tanks later this year which are said to be progressing in time for the intended September release.

 

I also note above that we have a corroboration of the operation to Exeter of a 3H unit. Still nothing on whether it got as far as Barnstaple though there certainly were rosters in the days of 33 haulage down there which had those locos come down from Waterloo and take a train out to north Devon before returning later or even an other day.

[kintbury jon]

I'm just delighted to hear that they made it to Exeter. The only photographic references I have seen is the 'Hastings' units on the Brighton Serivices. Being a driver of 207203 at the S&CR i'd loved to have heard them leaving Exeter S tDavids for Exeter Central!

 

At £40 less I am certainly more tempted of a purchase though.

[Temeraire]

Definitely put me down for a three car NSE one, especially if there is evidence of a visit to Exeter, not that I wasn't going to justify one anyhow.

[Gwiwer]

The Brighton - Exeter working was 6B+6L for a couple of years, reducing to 6L in the winter. This was possible as it had been cut back to Saturdays-only after the end of loco-haulage and the demu stock was spare at weekends. The train ceased to run altogether after summer 1973(?) and was reinstated using Hastings demu's the following year. Having travelled on that working quite regularly I'll confirm that the place to be was in the rear unit as it left St. Davids (which should have been the 6B but wasn't always) and in the declassified First Class compartment which was always labelled for use of Second Class passengers. Quite a stirring sight (and sound) all the way back to Brighton but especially so up from St. Davids to Central.

 

A 3H on the bank will have had a fairly similar power : weight ratio but only one engine instead of four of course.

 

But for those of us modelling in that general area we can legitimately place one of Kernow's models alongside WR stock of the time. These units also replaced WR stock on Bristol - Weymouth turns on occasions and I am trying to locate a verified reference to one having been appropriated at Reading for an all-stations to Bedwyn working on one occasion.

[gillinghamgus]

My only encounter at Exeter Central was due to the very poor situation of traction in the summer of 1991 they did work the first 2 Yeovil Junction to Waterloo services on Sundays but I am only aware of a couple occasions through to Exeter in 1991 and again in 1992.

 

Barnstaple is very doubtful? The 205 i avoided was an out and back service returning to Basingstoke, I should known something was wrong when it was announced as terminating at Basingstoke! as for 33's working to Barnys yes they did but during the 1980's there was a Barnstaple - Paighton service usually 31 or 33 hauled but not off a Mule service. there was also a Barny - Penzance train but again with loco and GUV in consist. unless anyone knows different I doubt 3H's went there apart from a tour? I think a Hastings went that way or Meldon?

 

1990 did see the daily (M-S) use of a Hampshire from Portsmouth to Bristol Temple Meads and back again this was replaced in 1991 by 108DMU. There was an increase in Hampshire units on the Salisbury - Waterloo stoppers but they reconfigured the timetable to accommodate these on Salisbury Basingstoke's and cut the through service to accommodate the lack of maintenance to Laira class 50's in Feb 1991... ohh ouch.

 

Yes they did cover some Weymouth - Westbury services late 80's also!

[woodenhead]

I think the fairly terse statement from Kernow is a good indication that we are not about to learn any more behind the reasoning for the switch of manufacturers. The original manufacturer, who is represented among our membership, has maintained a diplomatic silence on the issue here as befits a professional in the industry.

 

Wasn't actually expecting to learn the reasons for the change, though I would imagine it would likely be related to production slots and/or cost over a quality issue. From a consumer perspective the new deal brings about a cost reduction and the preparation for sound fitting, but I would now think an N gauge example will be a lot further off, Dapol I think being more likely to champion such a model from the tooling over Farish who have lots of other models to be getting on with before a 205.

[Ian J.]

Wasn't actually expecting to learn the reasons for the change, though I would imagine it would likely be related to production slots and/or cost over a quality issue. From a consumer perspective the new deal brings about a cost reduction and the preparation for sound fitting, but I would now think an N gauge example will be a lot further off, Dapol I think being more likely to champion such a model from the tooling over Farish who have lots of other models to be getting on with before a 205.

[speculation warning]

 

You never know, the deal for Bachmann to take over the production of the OO model (presumably using the scanning and CAD work done by Dapol), might include a clause that means Dapol retain rights to produce an N gauge version. I'm not an insider so certainly can't say this is anything other than speculation though.

 

[/speculation warning]

[DJM Dave]

Hi everyone,

 

Can i just clear this up for you all.

 

Dapol were comissioned to produce the OO class 205 'thumper' unit by Kernow.

 

Development of other products for Kernow took a slight priority until last November when in conversation with Bachmann, Kernow found out that Bachmann were about to announce this model as part of their range.

 

Knowing that this would 'kill' Kernow sales in its tracks, Chris offered Bachmann the laser scan file we produced for him, and they struck a private deal which involved the laser scan going to Barwell.

 

Dapol, having paid for some of the laser scanning still intend to produce the 205 in N gauge, and this has now 'jumped the queue' for production and should be with us in a short time scale.

 

Never did Dapol have problems with Kernow regarding the Thumper in OO, and our relationship remains strong and is cemented further by new 'secret' projects still to be announced.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Dapol Ltd

 

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

What an eminently sensible outcome for all concerned. And thank you Dave for setting your side of the record straight. From all the comments and announcements it never once in any way appeared that there was any disharmony between Dapol and Kernow and it is encouraging to learn that despite the obvious competitive side to the business that some sensible compromises are also reached which can work to everyone's advantage.

[cromptonnut]

I see the NSE one appears to have been quietly dropped from the first batch of releases?

 

Did anyone manage to find out when the first one was repainted into NSE?

 

If I can justify running it, and the time fits the rest of my layout, and there is a sound fitted NSE one announced, then I quite likely will end up getting one.

 

It would help if the sound chip was available separately, so instead of having to offer standard and DCC sound versions of everything, those of us comfortable with DCC installation (or knowing a friend/club member/shop that will for us) could get the variant they want and add sound - which, I guess, is almost a certainty with this particular distinctive unit.

 

Unless, of course, someone like SWD is working with Bachmann again and is going to offer it as part of their normal range so we can just get the chip and stick it in ourselves.

 

I hope there's room for a smoke unit too -

[The Stationmaster]

The sound will certainly be interesting but I bet they won't manage to get that well known 'roll' as the engine starts and then settles down

 

Or indeed capture the way the power cars rolled at speed in traffic - a trip from Reading to Pompey Harbour in one of these was an 'interesting experience'

[steve1023]

I'm quite pleased with this development, especially as the one I ordered is still going to be produced and at a cheaper price aswell. I don't have any experience of any Dapol stuff, but the Bachmann stuff I have is truly good and hopefully the 2H will follow on from the 4CEP, although to be honest I'm not certain we'll see it 2011.

 

Steve

[Hastings Thumper]

Looking forward to this one - I think it will have to be a sound equipped version given my memories of these ticking over for hours on end at St. Leonards depot (a couple of streets away from where we used to live)

 

Sam

[Gwiwer]

to be honest I'm not certain we'll see it 2011.

 

Can't see why not. Half the work is already done, i.e. the laser scanning and CAD-CAMS. The whole project was aimed at release by April 2010 but was initially slowed by Kernow to prioritise other items they wanted by a particular date. So with the initial stages already completed all we need is for Bachmann to find a production slot and tidy up a few issues with the original layout such as fitting a motor bogie which isn't a full-coach locomotive-type unit. Shouldn't be hard.

 

I would expect the first batch within a year from now and the rest within perhaps 18 months so well within 2011.

[bmthtrains - David]

Having read Dapol Dave's comments on this, I must say I have to congratulate all concerned for how this clash was handled. It would have been too easy for everyone to keep to themselves and not co-operate, but I applaud both Dapol and Bachmann's approach. Presumably after Kernow's run is over, Bachmann will release this into the general market, but it was very encouraging to see both manufacturers support both Kernow and the hobby in general by coming to this arrangement. Full marks!

 

David

[Guest Phil]

I'd like to add my thanks to Dapol Dave for putting us right on the situation regarding the 4mm and 2mm gauge "thumpers".

 

It is indeed refreshing to see industry competitors working together for the greater good. Just imagine what the fruits of that may have been regarding the BR std 75xxx !!!!

[woodenhead]

Priority 205 in N -

 

Thanks Dave.

 

Edit:

Just dawned on me: Dapol have announced the first N gauge Southern unit, so with the new Mk1 from Farish can we expect Farish to follow suit and get a 4-Cep in N sometime in 2011.

 

Dig out your 73s.

[Ceptic]

What an eminently sensible outcome for all concerned. And thank you Dave for setting your side of the record straight. From all the comments and announcements it never once in any way appeared that there was any disharmony between Dapol and Kernow and it is encouraging to learn that despite the obvious competitive side to the business that some sensible compromises are also reached which can work to everyone's advantage.

 

Hear, Hear.

[Southernman46]

Hear Hear - good to see such co-operation between the parties involved.

 

Now Dapol Dave - get that laser scanner back out and go and do the Hastings DEMU PLEASEEEEE !!!!

[griffgriff]

Daft question... but why are there 2 prices for the '2H units'? (apart from the sound version that is) one at just under £110 and one just under the £150 mark... does that suggest a '3H' unit? Just I have not seen it mentioned???

 

Forgive me if this is just my wishful thinking

[gillinghamgus]

I am begning to think that also the £109 Units must be the first batch 2 cars and the £149 must be the later to come 3 cars? can Kernow or Bachmann confim this please?

 

Also thought I would amends my thoughts on future production on 207's it's more than front ends... But its a still a possiblity if they are up for it?

 

205 Units have a first class section and toilets in the non powered driving cars and the 207 has the first class area and toilets in the centre car with the open car in the non powered driving car.

 

205

http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p56617822.html

 

http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p62716834.html

 

1988 NSE 205...(Thats the one that I flagged at Exeter Cen)

http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p56617818.html

 

207

http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p56623226.html

 

http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p62839577.html

 

Photos from Dave Rowlands fotopic site.