Overseas railways worth modelling

[EddieB]

The Swiss RhB sold a fair number of their obsolete G4/5 loco's to Indochina/Thailand after the RhB network was extensively electrified. Some still survive! Bemo makes an H0m model of it

 

The ex-Rhaetian 2-8-0s went to the Royal State Railway, not the Maeklong Railway.  Twelve were supplied in 1926, followed by a further six in 1927.  Two survive in preservation (a third is suggested, but never confirmed).  There is a dimensioned side elation in Ramaer's "The Locomotives of Thailand" (as for many of the other RSR lociomotive types).   As whart57 says, extending the tender rails would be necessary to reflect the change from coal to wood burning.

[5944]

I'd love to model some of the Eritrean railway system. 950mm gauge, so 4mm scale on 12mm track wouldn't look too wrong. However, the thought of scratch building half a dozen 0-4-4-0T Mallets puts me off a bit!

[whart57]

You could try S scale on 16.5mm gauge track and see whether it is feasible to build those Mallets using commercial mechs

[modfather]

New Zealand metre gauge seems a bit left out, there's s scale using ho track or train using n track and some phenomenal modelling including a runnof kits designed by mr edge.

[Michael Edge]

NZ is 3ft 6in, not metre gauge, Kiwi modellers use a bewildering variety of scales. The largest I have done is 9mm:1ft which uses O gauge track, latest is 1:48th, using S scale track. We have done some etches in HO/1:87 which gives 3ft 6in with HOm track.

[modfather]

My mistake, I haven't yet found HOm but the kit in 9mm scale has been made into some beautiful models.

[Pacific231G]

It has been modelled by a few of our French counterparts but the metre gauge Tramways de Correze are very deserving and probably my choice for the lost railway I'd visit first if I could get my hands on the TARDIS just once.

The TC was a bucolic roadside tramway that threw itself over a river gorge on the breathtaking Rochers-Noirs "Gisclard" suspension bridge. When its last line closed at the end of 1959 it had been the last of France's rural steam tramways in general public service thanks to the diffiulties of road transport in this part of the Massif Central. It had also been one of the last to be built, with most of its lines opened in the two years before the First World War.

 

Until 1983 the viaduct was open to cars and as well as being dramatic it was a useful short cut. After 1983 It only open for pedestrians but even that ended in 2005.  

 

I did get as far as building an H0e (false metre gauge) model of one of the 060T Piguets that operated the line along with a few of its wagons but didn't get to see the one preserved example until four years ago at the Baie de Somme's 2013 festival of steam

 

 

A surprising amount of the line's infrastructure has survived including many of the station buildings - several now restored- a stone water tower the main loco depot a Le Mortier-Gummond (now a garage) and two viaducts.

 

There's film of the railway in action a coupe of years before it closed here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt4EhfaMupc

and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez4oIU67Z5E

 

and there have been several good books about the line

Edited August 22, 2017 by Pacific231G

[whart57]

For the really unusual and as an impossible challenge, how about a railway after a flood?

 

In 1953 there was severe flooding at many points around the North Sea. Canvey Island was badly hit and the Kent Coast line was breached. The latter would enable a modeller of Herne Bay station to operate it as a terminus. Worst hit though were the provinces of Zeeland and South Holland in the Netherlands. Whole islands in Zeeland disappeared and the death toll was only limited by the fact this was a rural area with a low population. Needless to say the railway from Bergen op Zoom to Vlissingen was washed out and being below sea level for much of the way was further flooded twice a day when the tide came in. However the local PW gang leader came up with a novel solution. As building an embankment was clearly out of the question, he suggested securing the track bed with a low dam. the line would still be covered at high tide but the dam would protect it from the scouring affect of the moving water as the tides changed. A low tech solution that could be achieved with the local workforce and locally available materials. This is what it looked like:

 

 

 

Once the work was done there was time to run a pair of goods trains at low tide. The trains were ready to go as the water dropped and as soon as the lines were clear a Sik (a light 4 wheel diesel shunter) was sent out to check the line and clear any debris. Then the single track was briefly open for goods trains. The island of Walcheren had been largely unaffected by the flood but the towns of Middelburg and Vlissingen needed coal and food supplies so this workaround was literally a lifeline

 

 

Some interesting pictures were made of trains apparently running over the water. And the 3700 class at the front is available in HO from Artitec ..........

 

More recently we have had trains running through the floods in Thailand

 

 

Modelling this could be messy though .....

 

 

[fezza]

Anyone for Sicilian metre gauge steam that lasted into the 1980s? The tracks were still there in many places when I last visited a few months ago. Great scenery, characterful stations, and varied stock... You can even buy some rtr if you look hard.

 

A tragedy that it closed... imagine if the Lynton and Barnstaple had lasted until the 1980s only to be shut for good in 1985.

Edited August 31, 2017 by fezza

[brack]

Look here:

http://scottpages.net/SpiritiNgAway.html

 

For a layout of the tram from spirited away running through water - it is possible to run DC powered trains through water. Pure water is a very poor conductor, especially at the low voltages/currents we use, it's the dissolved ions in most water that makes it conductive, so deionised or distilled water is what you need.

Not sure I'd try it with DCC mind.

[whart57]

The Thai railway photo above shows the train headed by a loco that had been withdrawn from SRT service and sold or leased to the contractor doing line doubling work. The SRT had to borrow them back. They also had to press into service another class that had been laid aside. But then I suppose that those Krauss locos and the metre gauge version of the DB V160 in the photo, being diesel hydraulics, were better suited to "swimming" than the diesel electrics.

 

After the floods receded the track needed proper testing before trains could run at normal speed and there is a photo of the SRT using a dead steam engine as a mobile weight. Lord knows where they got that steamer from though, it wasn't one of the preserved steam fleet.

[whart57]

... imagine if the Lynton and Barnstaple had lasted until the 1980s only to be shut for good in 1985.

 

But you can be sure Lynton station would have received a fresh coat of paint in 1984 ........

[EddieB]

After the floods receded the track needed proper testing before trains could run at normal speed and there is a photo of the SRT using a dead steam engine as a mobile weight. Lord knows where they got that steamer from though, it wasn't one of the preserved steam fleet.

Do you have a photo, a link or any details of the steam loco?

[whart57]

Try this:

 

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/381524/

 

I might be wrong about them not being in the preserved fleet, looking at the picture more closely the two locos might be Japanese built C56s without tenders and a couple of those are theoretically steamable.

 

What a train eh? Double-headed with a couple of GE UM12C diesel electrics, a dead steam loco, 3 or 4 four wheel vans, 3 four wheel brake vans and another dead steam loco. Note the red rag tied to coupling lifter bar to indicate the tail of the train.

 

A lighter engineering train is:

 

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/381353/

[Andy Hayter]

Look here:

http://scottpages.net/SpiritiNgAway.html

 

For a layout of the tram from spirited away running through water - it is possible to run DC powered trains through water. Pure water is a very poor conductor, especially at the low voltages/currents we use, it's the dissolved ions in most water that makes it conductive, so deionised or distilled water is what you need.

Not sure I'd try it with DCC mind.

 

Distilled water is not ion free.  Indeed it is not even pH neutral (7.0).

 

Surprised?

  I know I was.

 

In the condensation process, the water dissolves CO2 and creates carbonic acid (pH 6.5) with carbonate and primarily bicarbonate ions.

[brack]

Distilled water is not ion free. Indeed it is not even pH neutral (7.0).

 

Surprised?

I know I was.

 

In the condensation process, the water dissolves CO2 and creates carbonic acid (pH 6.5) with carbonate and primarily bicarbonate ions.

Yes - I actually teach science, the trouble with water is that it is a very effective solvent and it'll dissolve co2 and whatever it can find upon exposure to the air, but that's a lot less dissolved ions that rain or tap water, so distilled is certainly a far better electrical insulator (again, we say insulator but from a technical point of view there's no such thing, just poorer conductors) than using normal water (roughly about 1/1000 as conductive as typical tap water) particularly with a low current and voltage.

[dullsteamer]

Try this:

 

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/381524/

 

I might be wrong about them not being in the preserved fleet, looking at the picture more closely the two locos might be Japanese built C56s without tenders and a couple of those are theoretically steamable.

Definitely C56s. I think they have tenders,they're just hard to see due to the tele-lens distortion.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[whart57]

Distilled water is not ion free.  Indeed it is not even pH neutral (7.0).

 

Surprised?

  I know I was.

 

In the condensation process, the water dissolves CO2 and creates carbonic acid (pH 6.5) with carbonate and primarily bicarbonate ions.

 

Jeez that takes me back. In the 1970s I worked as a lab technician in a school and we made our own distilled water using a glass still. One day the subject for first year science was acids and alkalis, teacher (actually Head of Science) handed out the indicator strips along with a range of chemicals for the kids to try. All the kids reported water was acid. He decided they must have been messy workers and went to demonstrate water was pH neutral himself. Acid. Break time came to test a sample fresh from the still. Acid. Gave me a bollocking for not cleaning the still properly. I had descaled the still over the summer but surely after the gallons of distilled water produced since then any descaler would have washed out? Anyway, dismantled it, washed it through, sloshed ethanol around inside it to remove traces of the water that might be lingering with its acid components, put it back together, ran it for a while, tested a sample. Acid. This went on for weeks. Then one day I took a sample, heated it to boiling point and let it cool before testing. PH neutral. Still don't know why and what occurred but the next year I boiled all the water before giving it out to first year science to dip their indicator papers in.

[jjb1970]

The Rio Tinto mining railway in Spain has always struck me as a particularly interesting railway that'd make a great subject for a layout.

[brack]

The Rio Tinto mining railway in Spain has always struck me as a particularly interesting railway that'd make a great subject for a layout.

Absolutely, the Sierra Menera too - 4-8-0s, big NBL 0-6-6-0s and garratts. There's a load of Spanish metre gauge lines that have a lovely mix of British, German, French and Spanish built motive power but I've not seen much respresentation of them in model form, especially as its not that far away and some of these systems ran steam quite late on.

[Pacific231G]

Yes - I actually teach science, the trouble with water is that it is a very effective solvent and it'll dissolve co2 and whatever it can find upon exposure to the air, but that's a lot less dissolved ions that rain or tap water, so distilled is certainly a far better electrical insulator (again, we say insulator but from a technical point of view there's no such thing, just poorer conductors) than using normal water (roughly about 1/1000 as conductive as typical tap water) particularly with a low current and voltage.

I've seen a layout that included a section of AFAIR about half a metre of flooded track and it did just use tapwater. Though there probably were some electrical losses through the water (which would effectively create a parallel circuit to that through the motor) it didn't seem to be causing a signficant loss of power, probably less than the mechanical drag created by the water. Clearly a longer water section would have greater losses but it would be easy enough to experiment with a length of track and a bowl of water. 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Pacific231G

[whart57]

Absolutely, the Sierra Menera too - 4-8-0s, big NBL 0-6-6-0s and garratts. There's a load of Spanish metre gauge lines that have a lovely mix of British, German, French and Spanish built motive power but I've not seen much respresentation of them in model form, especially as its not that far away and some of these systems ran steam quite late on.

 

You won't see that unless someone has put the work in researching these lines. I'm building a layout based on Thailand and I would guess that 70% of the research is my own work. That's why it is set in the present day, I don't have a Tardis. You need loads of photographs, even more so if you don't have drawings, and not just the static posed shots of new locomotives. In southern and eastern Europe there were often restrictions on photographing railways as well. Just ten years ago transport police in Madrid made me erase a couple of pictures I'd taken of trains on the metro when they saw me take them. They've probably eased up now otherwise they would spend their days hassling people to erase selfies but restrictions in the past mean there is a greater shortage of pics than there might otherwise be.

[EddieB]

Catching up on this thread...

 

 

To kick this off, I suggest the narrow gauge steam tram lines of Gelderland (NL)

 

 

Where can I find information?

 

De Stoomlocomotieven der Nederlandse Tramwegen - S. Overbosch, provides descriptions and some drawings of the locomotives used

 

Very pleased to find a copy at one of the stalls at Old Oak Common yesterday!

 

Try this:

 

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/381524/

 

I might be wrong about them not being in the preserved fleet, looking at the picture more closely the two locos might be Japanese built C56s without tenders and a couple of those are theoretically steamable.

 

What a train eh? Double-headed with a couple of GE UM12C diesel electrics, a dead steam loco, 3 or 4 four wheel vans, 3 four wheel brake vans and another dead steam loco. Note the red rag tied to coupling lifter bar to indicate the tail of the train.

 

A lighter engineering train is:

 

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/381353/

 

Definitely C56s. I think they have tenders,they're just hard to see due to the tele-lens distortion.

Cheers,

Mark.

I'd say that they are C56s 715 (front) and 713 (inside), both operational at that time and based at Thonburi depot.  (713 retains its JNR numberplate on the smokebox door).

 

The Rio Tinto mining railway in Spain has always struck me as a particularly interesting railway that'd make a great subject for a layout.

There was a monograph written by Alan Sewell in 1991 which gives a very good account of this very British line.

 

Absolutely, the Sierra Menera too - 4-8-0s, big NBL 0-6-6-0s and garratts. There's a load of Spanish metre gauge lines that have a lovely mix of British, German, French and Spanish built motive power but I've not seen much respresentation of them in model form, especially as its not that far away and some of these systems ran steam quite late on.

As noted, less well covered - but there were illustrated articles in old editions of "European Railways".

[whart57]

I wonder how often those C56s get steamed. The pictures posted on the internet of steam runs in Thailand (generally on the King's birthday and the anniversary of the first line to be opened in Thailand) invariably show larger locomotives, a Pacific and a 4-8-2, coupled back to back as there are no turning facilities at Ayuttaya or the Bangkok depots.

[Neil]

Narrow gauge in the Italian Alps anyone?