The case for CIWL Night Sleeper Coaches

[47137]

If not then I think we'll be seeing a big rise in the secondhand prices of Lima Mk.2s 

I have a substantial private holding.

 

- Richard.

[truffy]

I have a substantial private holding.

 

- Richard.

 

Oooer matron!

[Oldddudders]

I have a substantial private holding.

 

 

TMI.

[47137]

Sorry.

 

 

- Richard.

[Wickham Green]

If you really want to apply rule #1, Senlac was a Dieppe-Newhaven ferry, reproduced in 1/100 scale as a train ferry. Don’t believe the 1/87 scale claimed. The actual dimensions are 1/100.

 

https://www.regionsetcompagnies.fr/produit/846-ferry-boat-a-quai/

..... then we'll have to get Hornby Triang to do the Night Ferry stock in TT .......... at least they've already done a Merchant Navy !

[Covkid]

I think the Type F coaches would be a marvellous project for Hornby - one design for 1936 to 1980 with several liveries to offer. But I do think they should tackle at least one of the SNCF vans to go with them. This would be an extremely niche product ('Continental 00'?), so perhaps the coaches and van would be best marketed together as a train pack.

 

- Richard.

 

Ideal accompaniment to the Hornby Class 71 then

[47137]

Ideal accompaniment to the Hornby Class 71 then

I've made the suggestion to Hornby, because I think they would be a popular model. There are very few prototypes with such a long period in service, and they cover the post war through to late BR periods which so many people enjoy.

 

I shall enjoy my three from LS Models (which I tracked down on eBay quite recently), and look forward to a fourth one hopefully coming from the shop in Carlisle.

 

- Richard.

[eb1]

I have the LS Models coaches. They are fantastic models and can be run with a Heljan Class 33 without looking too odd. I have also adapted some Fleischmann fourgons but they are a compromise and are not prototypical. However, there is no chance to run an OO Mk1 composite brake with them as per the prototype in the late 70s.

 

I would love to have proper scale OO coaches and fourgons. I totally agree that if Hornby are making Class 71s and other locos that fit these coaches a Hornby Type F coach pack would be a very welcome addition.

[47137]

I had a phone call earlier today, the new batch of the LS Models coaches has arrived at the model shop in Carlisle.

 

(I've ordered one, so I can add this to my existing three to make a minimal representation of the Night Ferry)

 

- Richard.

[Mike at C&M]

Set 49123      3 x 1st Class Type F sleeping cars, in 1968 livery, CIWL lettering and UIC numbers

49128            a single Type F, description as for set 49123

LS_49128.jpg

 

Set 49124      3 x Type F sleeping cars, in 1974 livery. No CIWL logos, 2 coaches with SNCF 'lozenge' logo

49125            a single Type F, description as for set 49124, with SNCF 'lozenge' logo

LS_49125.jpg

1 of each left at C&M Models in Carlisle. Single coaches are £70.90, triple packs are £212.55, plus postage

[brushman47544]

If you really want to apply rule #1, Senlac was a Dieppe-Newhaven ferry, reproduced in 1/100 scale as a train ferry. Don’t believe the 1/87 scale claimed. The actual dimensions are 1/100.https://www.regionsetcompagnies.fr/produit/846-ferry-boat-a-quai/

Remember the Senlac well when it started new on the route to replace the Falaise, operating alongside the Valencay and Villandry. That model must be some sort hybrid or something though, as the Senlac was not a train ferry.

[sncf231e]

I have found a very useful link which contains a PDF listing many/most of the CIWL cars ever made (Altaya did the LX type so won,t have been seen in the UK).

 

http://traincollectors.co.uk/ciwl-in-miniature

 

Scroll down the link to the PDF, open the Link, takes you to a place with many PDFs, click on the CIWL one.

 

I noticed this pointer to the e-book (.pdf) I made on CIWL cars, including the F(erry) type sleeping cars. The newest version of this book can always be seen and/or downloaded (for free, i.e. at no cost of course!) from my website (http://sncf231e.nl/) or directly: http://sncf231e.nl/ciwl-carriages-by-fredsmall/. 

 

Another interesting book (I think) is a book on models of Non-CIWL luxury trains, which includes a couple of British luxury trains, some of them in 00 gauge (and some of these again by Hornby). It can be seen here: http://sncf231e.nl/non-ciwl-luxury-trainssmall-2/

 

There are more e-books I made on my website; one on models of LNER Pacifics  might also be of interest: http://sncf231e.nl/lner-pacifics-and-nyc-hudsons/

 

Regards

Fred

[PrestburyJack]

With 2019 announcements not far away is it time to resurrect this thread?

[47137]

Here are some fresh photos of the Night Ferry:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6794513/Vintage-photos-reveal-night-train-London-Paris-used-loaded.html

 

- Richard.

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, 47137 said:

Here are some fresh photos of the Night Ferry:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6794513/Vintage-photos-reveal-night-train-London-Paris-used-loaded.html

 

- Richard.

I am rather amused by the way in which passengers are referred to as 'commuters' in many of the captions.  It was a fun trip in many respects but not if you wanted a good night's sleep as the shunting at Dunkirk tended to be done in typical SNCF fashion, i.e. very noisily and not exactly gently.  But it did offer an arrival time in Paris which nowadays would mean a very early start from London if you wanted to do the journey by through train as even the 06.19 from St Pancras International doesn't get you to Gare du Nord until 10.32

[Philou]

I think the photo of 'commuters' in the restaurant are actually staff having a meal break looking at their dress. Went on it once as a child with my great aunt. I remember being very impressed by the loading of the coaches into the ferry - must have been about three at the time.

 

If anyone is interested, there was a scale HO model (slightly compressed) of the ferry that was for sale, based on the post-war ship. Looked good too. The only thing that I thought may have been wrong was that the BR double arrow was back-to-front i.e. the arrows placed as if trains were running German style (can't say French as they run the same way as UK trains - Alsace Lorraine excepted).

 

The model was in 'Le Train'. I'll see if I can find it should anyone be interested.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[truffy]

7 minutes ago, Philou said:

If anyone is interested, there was a scale HO model (slightly compressed) of the ferry that was for sale, based on the post-war ship. Looked good too. The only thing that I thought may have been wrong was that the BR double arrow was back-to-front i.e. the arrows placed as if trains were running German style (can't say French as they run the same way as UK trains - Alsace Lorraine excepted).

 

The model was in 'Le Train'. I'll see if I can find it should anyone be interested.

 

It wasn't the one linked to by mikeharvey22 on the previous page, was it?

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130389-the-case-for-ciwl-night-sleeper-coaches/&do=findComment&comment=3029413

https://www.regionsetcompagnies.fr/produit/846-ferry-boat-a-quai/

[Philou]

@truffy

 

Yes - that was the one. I only came in at the end of the thread - sorry.

 

But just to settle the argument in my head - is the double arrow on the funnel reversed?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[laurenceb]

The port side arrow was reversed on ships so that the top of the arrow was pointing forward 

[Philou]

Ah .......... now I understand. Thanks for that .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

[47137]

11 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I am rather amused by the way in which passengers are referred to as 'commuters' in many of the captions.  It was a fun trip in many respects but not if you wanted a good night's sleep as the shunting at Dunkirk tended to be done in typical SNCF fashion, i.e. very noisily and not exactly gently.  But it did offer an arrival time in Paris which nowadays would mean a very early start from London if you wanted to do the journey by through train as even the 06.19 from St Pancras International doesn't get you to Gare du Nord until 10.32

 

I was 18 when the Night Ferry ceased. It represents a railway I want to think I remember, but really these memories are from an Inter-rail card four years later. I've studied the type F sleeper at York a couple of times, and want to imagine illicit liaisons, the Cold War, a femme fatale, discussions going well into the night. But the reality sounds much more dull; some businessmen with early appointments in London and Paris.

 

- Richard.

[truffy]

2 minutes ago, 47137 said:

I was 18 when the Night Ferry ceased. It represents a railway I want to think I remember, but really these memories are from an Inter-rail card four years later. I've studied the type F sleeper at York a couple of times, and want to imagine illicit liaisons, the Cold War, a femme fatale, discussions going well into the night. But the reality sounds much more dull; some businessmen with early appointments in London and Paris.

 

Sometimes things are best left to our imaginations. Reality is no fun.

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

I was 18 when the Night Ferry ceased. It represents a railway I want to think I remember, but really these memories are from an Inter-rail card four years later. I've studied the type F sleeper at York a couple of times, and want to imagine illicit liaisons, the Cold War, a femme fatale, discussions going well into the night. But the reality sounds much more dull; some businessmen with early appointments in London and Paris.

 

- Richard.

Distinct paucity of businessmen in its later years - seemed to be mainly leisure travellers on the night I travelled (in 1975).  And notwithstanding the French connection the travellers in Second Class were booked to share with another of the same gender so the only way you'd find a femme fatale was to take one with you, and there wasn't even one lounging seductively in the buffet car.  But the rolling stock was rather nice.

[truffy]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

the only way you'd find a femme fatale was to take one with you

 

Rather defeats the point...

[47137]

On 19/03/2019 at 07:48, truffy said:

 

Sometimes things are best left to our imaginations. Reality is no fun.

 

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Distinct paucity of businessmen in its later years - seemed to be mainly leisure travellers on the night I travelled (in 1975).  And notwithstanding the French connection the travellers in Second Class were booked to share with another of the same gender so the only way you'd find a femme fatale was to take one with you, and there wasn't even one lounging seductively in the buffet car.  But the rolling stock was rather nice.

 

I think my best bet is to add some figures to one of my LS Models coaches. Nine compartments, so up to nine tiny little scenes. The Government courier being in the single compartment at the end. I'm sure my femme fatale is out there somewhere, I'll call her Mm Noch or Mm Preiser.

 

- Richard.