Oxford announce 12T Tank Wagons

[Fredo]

Thanks Dunsignalling/John for the updates, much appreciated, Fred.

[Dunsignalling]

55 minutes ago, markw said:

'Oil On The Rails' has a photo of the aftermath of the 1953 floods, only 2 of the 10 wagons where the number is visible have the SM prefix.

 

'Petroleum Railtank Wagons' has new build wagons without SM prefix

5706 Mclellan Jan 48

6397 Cambrian Jun 48

And 4886 a 1947 repaint with 'for repairs advise petroleum board'

 

So I think the SM prefix was only applied to Shell BP liveried repaints at around the end of the petroleum board in June 1948 probably for no more than a few months.

Thanks, on that basis, the 1949 pic I mentioned, along with a similarly dated one of Class B tank No.511 (also ex-works) in 'Petroleum Railtank Wagons of Britain' depict very late/final applications of the prefix.

 

The absence of it from most of the wagons it in the photo you cite suggests a rapid programme of repainting over the ensuing four years.

 

Oxford's model therefore represents a wagon repainted post-WW2 but no later that 1948. I think I'll need to rid mine of the SM prefixes for my 1958-1962 time-frame.

 

John

Edited June 21, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green too]

My SHELL/BP wagon has just arrived .................. WHAT AN ABSOLUTELY STUNNING MODEL ! - Thanks, Oxford.

 

Apart from the usual problem of non-standard wheelsets - WHY ? - and a slight blemish on the tank mould line I see only one slight 'issue' : Oxford have, understandably, used the same wagon for various types of tanker so the bottom outlet is incorrect for Class A traffics - it's easily snipped off ( fortunately the siphon tube was inside the dome at this date so that's invisible ).

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Thanks, on that basis, the 1949 pic I mentioned, along with a similarly dated one of Class B tank No.511 (also ex-works) in 'Petroleum Railtank Wagons of Britain' depict very late/final applications of the prefix.

 

The absence of it from most of the wagons it in the photo you cite suggests a rapid programme of repainting over the ensuing four years.

 

Oxford's model therefore represents a wagon repainted post-WW2 but no later that 1948. I think I'll need to rid mine of the SM prefixes for my 1958-1962 time-frame.

 

John

Afternoon John. With your 'history hat' on, might I have ever seen any of these through Seaton Junction between 1958 - 1964: Oils for 72A perhaps? I think I have maybe only one photo of a goods, south of Yeovil Jn, with any Fuel  Tanks in it.

Cheers, 

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

56 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Afternoon John. With your 'history hat' on, might I have ever seen any of these through Seaton Junction between 1958 - 1964: Oils for 72A perhaps? I think I have maybe only one photo of a goods, south of Yeovil Jn, with any Fuel  Tanks in it.

Cheers, 

Phil

Hi Phil,

 

Axminster definitely received both Class A and B tank traffic, (IIRC both from Shell-BP and Esso) but probably only two or three wagons a week, hence the scarcity of photos. I'm unsure where the traffic originated, but the layout at Axminster was such that only down trains normally shunted there, so SJ should have seen them either coming or going.  

 

I'm also unsure what other stations between Yeovil and Exeter (if any) handled such traffic, but Crewkerne rings a bell and UD at Chard Junction may have received fuel oil (Class B) by rail. I think the Express Dairy at SJ was coal fired, but am prepared to be corrected.

 

John

Edited June 21, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Mallard60022]

I suspect Bog Cart fuel for 72A came up from St Davids and any for North Devon and Cornwall on the SR. However I have seen Tankers on the Plymouth Line going both ways from Friary; maybe shunted at Okehamton or Yeoford for Barnstaple/Okey? Just trying to find an excuse rather than an actual train!.

[TheSignalEngineer]

@Mallard60022 I have seen a picture of a Class A Esso tank in a train at Meldon Viaduct. Also there was a fuel depot at Barnstaple Victoria Road GWR station.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I like that half and half BP/Shell wagon quite a lot! Was trying to make sense of the past couple of pages of comments, did we establish it's in pre 1948 condition? 

Edited June 21, 2021 by GreenGiraffe22
Typo

[Dunsignalling]

10 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

I like that half and half BP/Shell wagon quite a lot! Was trying to make sense of the past couple of pages of comments, did we establish it's in pre 1948 condition? 

Yes, but post-war (silver tank) and the red buffer beams would have become black under BR.

 

John

[markw]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

Yes, but post-war (silver tank) and the red buffer beams would have become black under BR.

 

John

I think the buffer beams would never have been red.

[GreenGiraffe22]

54 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Yes, but post-war (silver tank) and the red buffer beams would have become black under BR.

 

John

Ah so a narrow 1946/47 sort of time frame? BR is of no interest to me , I wondered if it was suitable for late 30s but perhaps not.

[phil_sutters]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I suspect Bog Cart fuel for 72A came up from St Davids and any for North Devon and Cornwall on the SR. However I have seen Tankers on the Plymouth Line going both ways from Friary; maybe shunted at Okehamton or Yeoford for Barnstaple/Okey? Just trying to find an excuse rather than an actual train!.

Maybe people with better eyes than my good one can tell whether these are what you are looking for

Edited June 21, 2021 by phil_sutters

[Porcy Mane]

6 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Apart from the usual problem of non-standard wheelsets - WHY ? - and a slight blemish on the tank mould line

 

Plenty of the RCH Shell/BP 10 ton tanks ran with split spoke wheels till scrapping. Shell/BP also hired 10 ton tanks that were used for both A & B traffics from Charles Roberts into the late 1960's.

 

6 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I see only one slight 'issue'

 

You forgot to mention that the end baulks need shortening back, there are no racking plates and the end stanchions are L section instead of T. Mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130458-oxford-announce-12t-tank-wagons/&do=findComment&comment=4314397

 

and

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130458-oxford-announce-12t-tank-wagons/&do=findComment&comment=4096218

 

Still a good model though. I've bought a few that are currently being chopped into other guises.

 

 

6 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

( fortunately the siphon tube was inside the dome at this date so that's invisible ).

 

Whoa there tiger.

 

A good proportion of the Shell-BP class A 10 ton tanks (if not all) had vents and syphon tubes outwith of the filler shroud. The same with those hired from Roberts. There's plenty of phots of the Class A's that were later converted to class B, complete with transverse discharge pipe and valve with some also having a single flame tube installed in the tank. The upper vent and syphon tube were plugged just by hammering in wood plugs.

 

Here's SM-BP 2176 in 1963.

 

 

Preserved National Benzole (became part of Shell-BP in 1957) 174. Class A converted to Class B.

 

 

1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

did we establish it's in pre 1948 condition? 

 

A 14 ton tank was painted in this livery for the Shell-BP livery trials in 1959. There is a colour phot of it on the cover of Modellers Backtrack, Vol 3, issue  1. It was associated with the contained 14 ton tank article by Peter Fidczuk.

Quite recently there has been published other colour pictures of the wagons used in these trials but I can't for the life of me remember where.

 

P

Edited June 21, 2021 by Porcy Mane
Add missing word.

[bigherb]

1 hour ago, markw said:

I think the buffer beams would never have been red.

There is period photographic evidence of red buffer beams and sole bars on class A tank wagons.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I think that the SM numbers were definitely a wartime thing.

 

In 1944 the British Railways Press Office based at Waterloo published a booklet titled 'British Railways in Peace and War'. it has a section about how railways had been serving war factories with a picture of siding at one. In the foreground are some wooden open wagons then a siding of oil tanks with no ownership branding visible but the letters 'AA' above the number, presumably indicating that they came from the Anglo American Oil Co. Incidentally the picture demonstrates the spread and use of PO wagons after pooling. In a rake of empties there is an Emlyn Anthracite 7-plank from Swansea coupled to a 5-plank from Hamilton Palace Colliery in Scotland. Behind these is a mixed rake carrying scrap consisting of mostly 5-planks but with a 7-plank from PJ&JP.  

 

In 1945 they published a further booklet titled "It Can Now Be Revealed" continuing the story of the railway during wartime. There is a picture of an oil train being shunted. There are only two vehicles with any markings visible, The first is part of a 24T Toad on which I can't quite get the number but it may be a six-wheeler. The second is a tank similar to the Oxford models with "SM" visible on the manhole.

 

Tourret's book in the second edition shows on p29 a tank with what he describes as a "Shell-Mex and BP 1949 patent" flame heating device for bitumen wagons. The wagon is stencilled SM698 and looks as if it has 26/5/50 chalked on the solebar. Originally a lubricating oil wagon built by Hurst Nelson in 1943 and numbered AM2573 it later became (c1955)  8160 in the SM&BP list.

Edited June 21, 2021 by TheSignalEngineer

[Pteremy]

2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Also there was a fuel depot at Barnstaple Victoria Road GWR station.

There was - but it was serviced via the GWR line from Taunton. I think that you can be generous in terms of delivery via that route after the closure of Barnstaple Victoria passenger service in 1960 (for a couple of years - rule 1) but not in terms of delivery via the SR route.

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, phil_sutters said:

Maybe people with better eyes than my good one can tell whether these are what you are looking for

Thanks Phil. Always plenty of OIl going down  south Devon by 'the other' railway; I used to see quite a lot. However the SR route is a bit more of a mystery.  That's a great picture though. Thanks.

P

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

Plenty of the RCH Shell/BP 10 ton tanks ran with split spoke wheels till scrapping.  .......

 

Of course they did - as did zillions of other wagons.

 

My reference to non-standard wheels concerned Oxford's over-length axles so industry standard model railway wheels cannot be swapped in ......... the axle is actually a smidge smaller in diameter than Gibson's so switching the wheels, alone, will require superglue !

[Dunsignalling]

Gibson wheels are (or were) available with shorter (24.5mm) axles to enable them to fit Lima models.

 

Might be an idea to see if wheelsets with longer axles to suit Oxford Rail models can be made available.

 

John

[Porcy Mane]

20 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

the axle is actually a smidge smaller in diameter than Gibson's so switching the wheels, alone, will require superglue !

 

S'funny. I've put Gibsons P4 wheels on to the OR axle. No clag required.

 

I just found it a pity that the rear of brake shoes had to be relieved and the brake assemblies moved out by 0.75mm. No biggie as the brake moulding hadn't been glued in but you're right.

Things like that shouldn't need doing if you require a gauge swap.

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Ah so a narrow 1946/47 sort of time frame? BR is of no interest to me , I wondered if it was suitable for late 30s but perhaps not.

The style of lettering and silverette finish was introduced early 1939. There were some similar experimental liveries from late 1936. 
Paul

[GreenGiraffe22]

55 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

The style of lettering and silverette finish was introduced early 1939. There were some similar experimental liveries from late 1936. 
Paul

 

Tbh my layout can be anywhere between 1937-47 depending what I have running so it should fit in quite nicely 

[Cor-onGRT4]

Here some information about tankwagons and oil industries 

 

www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/petrol.htm

Edited June 22, 2021 by Cor-onGRT4

[Wickham Green too]

That page doesn't seem to exist  =  error 404

[Cor-onGRT4]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

That page doesn't seem to exist  =  error 404

Yes,I know , but sears the adress on google and you get the link