Oxford announce 12T Tank Wagons

[Garethp8873]

Anyone heard any updates on these wagons at all? Nothing has been updated on the Oxford Rail website since the announcements...

[ColHut]

G'day all,

 

Whilst slightly off topic, can some kind soul tell me what the wheel bases are for the various 4 wheel OO gauge pre-nationalization "oil" tank wagons available?

 

I understand that there are Hornby, Bachmann, some old Mainline, and soon to be Oxford 12-14 ton tank wagons (And also the Dapol  Rectangular tank wagons not further considered.)

 

I am particularly interested to know the various wheel bases, and if known the tank dimensions.  This will help me decide what tolerance I will have for the various liveries.  I like the look of some of these wagons, but do not really want to end up with a vehicle with a 10'6" wheelbase where it should be 9', or one with an oversize tank.

 

regards.

[Butler Henderson]

The vast majority of OO RTR tank short wheel base tank wagons, like 5 and 7 plank private owner wagons, are interpretations rather than exact copies, although it does not stop people from using them. Wheelbase is usually 10ft.

[Dunsignalling]

The vast majority of OO RTR tank short wheel base tank wagons, like 5 and 7 plank private owner wagons, are interpretations rather than exact copies, although it does not stop people from using them. Wheelbase is usually 10ft.

Certainly in model form, though the real thing seems to have been more often 9' 6".

 

John

[Pteremy]

G'day all,

 

Whilst slightly off topic, can some kind soul tell me what the wheel bases are for the various 4 wheel OO gauge pre-nationalization "oil" tank wagons available?

 

I understand that there are Hornby, Bachmann, some old Mainline, and soon to be Oxford 12-14 ton tank wagons (And also the Dapol  Rectangular tank wagons not further considered.)

 

I am particularly interested to know the various wheel bases, and if known the tank dimensions.  This will help me decide what tolerance I will have for the various liveries.  I like the look of some of these wagons, but do not really want to end up with a vehicle with a 10'6" wheelbase where it should be 9', or one with an oversize tank.

 

regards.

 

 

To be honest there is no simple answer to this. This is because:

 

- tank diameter varied according to use. In simple terms 'Class A' tanks - for lighter, more volatile petroleum products, discharged from the top of the tank, had larger diameter tanks than those for 'Class B' products, which being heavier, and less volatile, were discharged from the bottom of the tank.

- the distinction between Class A and B also has implications for the discharge apparatus that has to be reproduced in any model.

- wheelbases varied. For example, the RCH 1927 standard went back to 9ft even though 10ft was already common, and continued to be used.

- overtime some tanks were undated e.g. to include walkways for those using discharge apparatus.

 

The existing RTR models (e.g. Bachmann) ignore these subtleties providing Class A and Class B liveries regardless of the features modelled on the tank. But you can find examples of models where the livery and the tank features are a reasonable approximation to prototype - but each one needs to be considered on its own merits.

 

From the diagrams published on line the Oxford models look to be based on RCH 1911, and - potentially the key point - with saddle mounts rather than the Bachmann cradle mounts (which are not quite right). If so they are potentially a significant release, particularly for pre war builds, which continued in use post nationalisation. But, but, but...each one will  need to be considered on its own merits.

[Wickham Green]

Having finally persuaded myself to look into this topic*, I can say that - based solely on the drawings linked to earlier - the proposed model is probably of a 10'6'' wheelbase wagon ( guesstimating the w.b. from an approximately 3'1'' wheel diameter ) so likely to be a '1907' type BUT updated with RCH standard oil axleboxes and disc wheels at some time ............. so it's probably based on a prototype that lasted into the seventies and survives in preservation somewhere   -   whether it ever carried any of the proposed liveries is, perhaps, as debatable as the 10T liveries carried by Oxford's 1923 mineral wagons !!?!

 

*rather than simply waiting for Oxford to produce a model to their own 'standards' and THEN make my judgements ( or listening to others )

[Garethp8873]

Asked Oxford Rail on their Facebook page about the tankers. Had a reply;

 

 

 

CAD is complete and we are in the process of producing the tooling. Updates will follow with images of any samples which arrive.

[Garethp8873]

Update on Oxford's FB page today...

 

 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Garethp8873 said:

Update on Oxford's FB page today...

 

 

 

You beat me to it !

 

I would be particularly interested to learn of any authentic liveries that can be applied to this model.

 

I will, of course, produce transfer sheets for such liveries as can be positively identified, if the sources are quoted.

 

Would Paul Bartlett be kind enough to comment?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

You beat me to it !

 

I would be particularly interested to learn of any authentic liveries that can be applied to this model.

 

I will, of course, produce transfer sheets for such liveries as can be positively identified, if the sources are quoted.

 

Would Paul Bartlett be kind enough to comment?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

Looking at the two David Larkin books, Non-Pool Freight Stock 1948-68, there seem to be several tanks which are close, if not identical.

Volume 2 has SMBP 2031(Class B), taken Oban 1962; SMBP  1061 (Class A), taken Axminster 1952; United Molasses 13, Spalding, 1969; SMBP 1275 Millerhill, 1960s. There are others.

Variations seem to be:-

Presence/absence of a ladder.

side to middle bracings meeting inside/outside solebars

Filler to solebar bracings replaced by horizontal bracing between end members.

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Garethp8873 said:

Update on Oxford's FB page today...

 

 

Looks very nice. It does seem to avoid the question of is it a class A wagon or a class B tank, as it seems to lack a top siphon discharge or a bottom discharge pipe. 

 

I bet if they do a Shell BP class B tank it will have the pre WW2 dashes either side of BP.

[Porcy Mane]

On 24/01/2018 at 12:16, Fat Controller said:

Might this wagon be a fictional livery, in the grand tradition of tank wagon models since Hornby '0' gauge days?

 

I've a pic of a Grahams Golden Lager tank wagon (No 23) in Alloa station dated 30th August 1958. It's a lagged tank with twin fillers on a 12 ft w/b underframe. It's copyright so can't post.

 

P

[hmrspaul]

12 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

I've a pic of a Grahams Golden Lager tank wagon (No 23) in Alloa station dated 30th August 1958. It's a lagged tank with twin fillers on a 12 ft w/b underframe. It's copyright so can't post.

 

P

HMRS have several thumbnails. mostly twin fillers but there is a single filler - althought a lot of differences to the proposed model, not least the very unusual auxilliary suspension

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs.html?private_owner=1660

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/grahams-lager-alloa-10t-ale-tank-no-115-op-1947-exwks-f3r-vacb-a-arrol-sons-graham-apos-s-golden-lager-see-also-aat629-for-no-112.html

[Porcy Mane]

10 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

HMRS have several thumbnails. mostly twin fillers but there is a single filler - althought a lot of differences to the proposed model, not least the very unusual auxilliary suspension

 Tank No.23 is similar to AAT328  (No.111). By 1958 the tank is a darker colour and much simpler livery. Graham's Golden Lager lettering is along the full length of the tank in a single line with lettering about nine inches high.

 

P

[Garethp8873]

 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Garethp8873 said:

 

The images do not show the liveries I would be interested in but the wagons look great. So out with the paint and transfers, we are modellers after all.

[Steamport Southport]

Watching with interest as the one thing I don't have is many tank wagons. I really should dig out the books.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[SP Steve]

On 25/06/2019 at 17:31, Fat Controller said:

Variations seem to be:-

Presence/absence of a ladder.

side to middle bracings meeting inside/outside solebars

Filler to solebar bracings replaced by horizontal bracing between end members.

 

Another subtle difference I've spotted is with horizontal rivet lines on the tank barrel - if you divide the tank into three zones with the central zone being the one with the filler then some have a line of rivets to each side of the central zone (which is smooth) whilst others have a single line on the central zone but are smooth on the adjacent zones.

 

I'm not sure what variant will eventually be released as the OR engineering sample image would appear to show the first style (rivets - smooth - rivets) whilst the livery sample images show the second style (smooth - rivets - smooth).

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by SP Steve
Addition of image

[Porcy Mane]

40 minutes ago, SP Steve said:

Another subtle difference I've spotted is with horizontal rivet lines on the tank barrel - if you divide the tank into three zones with the central zone being the one with the filler then some have a line of rivets to each side of the central zone (which is smooth) whilst others have a single line on the central zone but are smooth on the adjacent zones.

 

Fully prototypical on the same wagon.

Opposite sides of the same tank are assembled with barrel joints in opposition to each other. The other side of the tank should have the opposite rivet pattern. It's for strength and aid barrel sections sliding into each other. Welded tanks were the same.

 

 

P

Edited September 9, 2019 by Porcy Mane
Post the correct photo!

[Fenway Park]

Oxford Rail were at the Lydney Show today with a display of some of the 12 T tank wagons, Mobil, Carless, Benzole and Fisons. We were allowed to handle them. 

 

Excellent weight and detail and due in November, hopefully. 

 

I had had better get my order in to Derails.

[adb968008]

I’ve seen a covertly acquired photograph, smuggled out of dark quarters of the forbidden zone., by a guy in an anorak, hat, with one arm and eye holes in his rolled up newspaper..

 

they do look very nice indeed, having seen them they are on my shopping list now.

[Phil Parker]

[adb968008]

 Just want to say having seen these wagons today, they are fanstastic !

 

Really nice job...

[micklner]

What are the authetic liveries out the pictures above please ??

[cctransuk]

56 minutes ago, micklner said:

What are the authetic liveries out the pictures above please ??

 

I'd guess that answering that would need quite a bit of research.

 

Many tank wagons of a particular style looked similar, but tank lengths and diameters varied.

 

This was a problem with Bachmann's anchor-mounted tank wagons - some of the liveries that they produced should have had similar, but dimensionally different, tanks.

 

It all comes down to how pedantic you are about exact detail.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.