Class 116 diesel multiple units

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks to Doodaa, Stationmaster, Rivercider and Philip for today's contributions.  The expression "uphill struggle" comes to mind.  No, there isn't a groan button.

 

Seriously though, it never occurred to me to look in the sectional appendix for gradient data, which is pretty silly of me as I have the 1950 and 1960 editions!  Can't see the wood for the trees sometimes ...

 

Philip, do you happen to know how steep the gradient was between Nantyglo and Brynmawr?  It was of course used by dmus for just over four years.  The units from Newport used to terminate in the wooden bay at Brynmawr.

 

Chris

 

The steepest gradient noted in the GWR Appendix is a 31 chain stretch1 in 45 between Nantyglo and Machine Sidings, I suspect that anything further towards Brynmawr might have been in LMS documents and i haven't got any WR information for the line after they fully took it over.    There were stretches of 1 in 48, 1 in 51, and 1 in 60 between Blaina and Nantyglo totalling 1 mile 25 ch and 2miles 55 ch worth of 1 in 51, 1 in 60, and 1 in 67 between Abertillery and Blaina.

 

Incidentally 'Drive End Trailer', usually abbreviated to DET, was the standard terminology on the operating side on the Western being used no diagrams and notices as well as conversationally (and also definitely used in the London Division M&EE office and their paperwork) and had presumably been adopted to avoid any chance of confusion with Motor Trailer Second.  In fact on the WR I never came across anyone who referred to them as anything other than a DET (not that I had any sort of involvement in the West of England until the 1970s.  And of course what became Classes 121 and 122 were always referred to as SPCs - Single Power Cars.

[chrisf]

Also another line that was not given DMUs - I've always wondered why, Pontypool-Neath, had a 1 in 47 from Pontypool Road to Hafodyrynys.  

 

regards

 

That is an interesting question, Philip.  I've just been trying to make sense of the timetable and it seems to consist largely of workmen's trains with relatively few services travelling the whole line.  I suspect that the economics were on the suspect side.  There was, as I think has been mentioned already, one dmu working.  This was the 8.10 am Aberdare HL - Cardiff Bute Road which used the spur between Nelson and Llancaiach and Ystrad Mynach and reached its starting point via the connection from Aberdare LL.  This had also been a 1.34 pm from Aberdare HL to Cardiff Queen Street but this was a victim of the cuts of 30th June 1958 and I'm not at all sure that it lasted long enough to be worked by a dmu.

 

Thanks for the info on gradients.

 

Chris 

[br2975]

Incidentally 'Drive End Trailer', usually abbreviated to DET, was the standard terminology on the operating side on the Western being used no diagrams and notices as well as conversationally (and also definitely used in the London Division M&EE office and their paperwork) and had presumably been adopted to avoid any chance of confusion with Motor Trailer Second.

 

 In fact on the WR I never came across anyone who referred to them as anything other than a DET (not that I had any sort of involvement in the West of England until the 1970s.  And of course what became Classes 121 and 122 were always referred to as SPCs - Single Power Cars.

 

Sorry Chris, slightly O/T (not quite Cl.116 related) but I couldn't resist this one.

.

"Drive End Trailer" - not too common in the Principality; but Canton had one.

.

In the early 1970s, this was W56293 which, allocated to Canton, spent most of its' life at Maliphant, Swansea form where it worked a most unusual diagram (as "Set No.160"), a daily round trip on the Central Wales route.

.

The 1971-1972 WTT and DMU Diagrams show it as follows;

.

Swansea D.S.....  18:25

Swansea ...........  18:30 - 18:50  with Set 125

Llanelli................ 19:08 - 19:17  with Sets 125 + 140

Shrewsbury........  22:37 - 22:40 with Set 140

Abbey Foregate.. 22:47 with Set 140

.

Abbey Foregate.. 03:39 with Set 143 ( previous day's Set 140 )

Shrewsbury..........03:xx - 03:51 with Set 143

Swansea............. 08:10 - 08:15 with Set 143

Swansea D.S......08:20 with Set 143 (Fuel & Inspection ....and yes, I know, how do you refuel a DET ?)

.

Swansea to Shrewsbury in a vehicle with no lavatory facilities ?.

.

The 03:39 ex Salop saw the DET used for parcels / mails and news traffic serving the isolated stations and halts along the Central Wales route

.

To complete the above;

Set.125 was a Swindon Cross Country Cl.120 three car unit that detached and worked onward from Llanelli to Pembroke Dock

Set.140 was a Swindon Cross Country Cl.120 two car unit that commenced its day at Cardiff working 'parcels' to Neath, then on to Swansea !

Set.143 was a Swindon Cross Country Cl.120 two car unit

.

There, once upon a time, railway operations were interesting !

.

Brian R

Edited April 6, 2018 by br2975

[Clive Mortimore]

Sorry Chris, slightly O/T (not quite Cl.116 related) but I couldn't resist this one.

.

"Drive End Trailer" - not too common in the Principality; but Canton had one.

.

In the early 1970s, this was W56293 which, allocated to Canton, spent most of its' life at Maliphant, Swansea form where it worked a most unusual diagram (as "Set No.160"), a daily round trip on the Central Wales route.

.

The 1971-1972 WTT and DMU Diagrams show it as follows;

.

Swansea D.S.....  18:25

Swansea ...........  18:30 - 18:50  with Set 125

Llanelli................ 19:08 - 19:17  with Sets 125 + 140

Shrewsbury........  22:37 - 22:40 with Set 140

Abbey Foregate.. 22:47 with Set 140

.

Abbey Foregate.. 03:39 with Set 143 ( previous day's Set 140 )

Shrewsbury..........03:xx - 03:51 with Set 143

Swansea............. 08:10 - 08:15 with Set 143

Swansea D.S......08:20 with Set 143 (Fuel & Inspection ....and yes, I know, how do you refuel a DET ?)

.

Swansea to Shrewsbury in a vehicle with no lavatory facilities ?.

.

The 03:39 ex Salop saw the DET used for parcels / mails and news traffic serving the isolated stations and halts along the Central Wales route

.

To complete the above;

Set.125 was a Swindon Cross Country Cl.120 three car unit that detached and worked onward from Llanelli to Pembroke Dock

Set.140 was a Swindon Cross Country Cl.120 two car unit that commenced its day at Cardiff working 'parcels' to Neath, then on to Swansea !

Set.143 was a Swindon Cross Country Cl.120 two car unit

.

There, once upon a time, railway operations were interesting !

.

Brian R

Hi Brian

 

Refuel the heater?

[Clive Mortimore]

Seriously, DMU trailer cars were fitted with a diesel fired heater. Unlike hauled coaches that had steam heating or electric power for the heating from the locomotive all DMU cars had their own heaters. The class 122 had S. Smith & Sons (England) Ltd combustion heaters.

[br2975]

Seriously, DMU trailer cars were fitted with a diesel fired heater. Unlike hauled coaches that had steam heating or electric power for the heating from the locomotive all DMU cars had their own heaters. The class 122 had S. Smith & Sons (England) Ltd combustion heaters.

 

Yes Clive, I was aware.

.

Brian R

[Clive Mortimore]

Yes Clive, I was aware.

.

Brian R

Hi Brian

 

I knew you would be knowledgeable on such matters but there are many on this forum who wouldn't be. 

[The Stationmaster]

That is an interesting question, Philip.  I've just been trying to make sense of the timetable and it seems to consist largely of workmen's trains with relatively few services travelling the whole line.  I suspect that the economics were on the suspect side.  There was, as I think has been mentioned already, one dmu working.  This was the 8.10 am Aberdare HL - Cardiff Bute Road which used the spur between Nelson and Llancaiach and Ystrad Mynach and reached its starting point via the connection from Aberdare LL.  This had also been a 1.34 pm from Aberdare HL to Cardiff Queen Street but this was a victim of the cuts of 30th June 1958 and I'm not at all sure that it lasted long enough to be worked by a dmu.

 

Thanks for the info on gradients.

 

Chris 

 

I think the reason the Vale of Neath - Pontypool Road was never dieselised was partly down to the fact that it wasn't expected to last as a passenger route but in any case DMU resources had to be concentrated on the Cardiff and Newport Valleys.  

[The Johnster]

So far as 116s were concerned, the lack of toilet facilities may have been an issue as well.  The route was in serious decline as a through service by then, as Mike says, but the steam hauled stock for such through trains as still ran was corridor gangwayed, presumably to allow access to toilet facilities owing to the 2 hour plus journey times (this also occurred on the Newport-Brecon trains). The GW and WR seem to have regarded 2 hours as the limit that passengers could contain themselves for.  The Cross Country sets would have been suitable, of course, but neither Neath nor Pontypool were ever allocated these AFAIK, and there may have not been sufficient available anyway.

 

A lot of 'maybe' here, and I am not claiming any of this as fact, just suggesting it!

[philip-griffiths]

The taff vale extension does fascinate me i must admit. Mike and The Johnster make good points. It was a long journey, but most tended to be for short sections of the line. Did people regularly travel the full distance like they would have from the valleys to Cardiff or Newport.

 

I am not going to take this further as it would be off topic but having been back the correct side of the Irish Sea for a funeral last December i was gobsmacked by the cars on the A472 at Crumlin and Pontypool. If ever a line was needed today.......

 

Anyway lets return to Chris’s fascinating thread on the 116s.

[chrisf]

Morning all

 

Here is a snippet dating from early 1959 [Trains Illustrated, January issue] that does not really fit anywhere:

 

"A new multiple-unit arrival in the Cardiff Valleys consists of cars W50086, 59438 and 50128, and is branded with words indicating that it has a special form of final drive.  It is reported to be restricted to a maximum speed of 55 mph and to wear a blue square code overpainted with a wavy cream stripe."

 

Now this set is one of the Newport ones but with a Bristol trailer.  How long this temporary formation lasted is not known but I suspect that the regular trailer, 59036, soon returned to the set and the set soon returned to Newport, where the 55 mph speed limit would have been less of a hardship.  59438 belonged with 51128 and 51141 but whether they were ever reunited is another good question.  59438 ended up at Tyseley and the power cars at Reading formed with a 118 trailer.

 

On the Bachmann 117 thread has appeared a photo of a set at Marlow including at least one 116.  I will look into this but not before breakfast!  There are limits ...

 

Chris

[robertcwp]

116 at Marlow from Tom Burnham's Flickr site:

Marlow station in 1972 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr

 

A view at Bourne End from the same source:

Bourne End station in 1972 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr

 

And Maidenhead:

Maidenhead station in 1972 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr

 

And one at Stourport-on-Severn:

Stourport-on-Severn station in 1969 (3) by Tom Burnham, on Flickr

[Phil Bullock]

Oh wow Rob - Stourport on Severn - not many photos there from this era! Many thanks fro sharing

 

Phil

[chrisf]

Thanks, Robert.  I'm now puzzled as to why the set is in 2-car formation.  It seems to have escaped the eagle eye of the Royal Corps of Train Spotters.  The coach that is not 50083 could well be a driving trailer.

 

Perhaps an hour or so in the garden removing weeds will help my brain function.

 

Chris

[brushman47544]

Thanks, Robert.  I'm now puzzled as to why the set is in 2-car formation.  It seems to have escaped the eagle eye of the Royal Corps of Train Spotters.  The coach that is not 50083 could well be a driving trailer.

 

Perhaps an hour or so in the garden removing weeds will help my brain function.

 

Chris

It may be my imagination, but it looks to me as if the “the coach that is not 50083” does not quite match in terms of weathering. Could it be an odd pair created temporarily for working in the London area?

[Pteremy]

The comments with the second photo include 'Unit L360 comprised W50083 and driving trailer W56285, the latter being non-gangwayed and locked out of use'

[chrisf]

The comments with the second photo include 'Unit L360 comprised W50083 and driving trailer W56285, the latter being non-gangwayed and locked out of use'

 

Good call - thank you!  That I had not thought to look where you looked bears out my contention that my brain is not functioning well today.  50083 has a bit of a history of working with driving trailers but more of that anon.  Note to self: tonight's bedtime reading will be several volumes of the Railway Observer.

 

Chris

[89A]

Did any of the Newport allocation make it to Brecon? I recall DMU service trains running in 1959 between Dowlais Top and Pant (Glam)on the Brecon & Merthyr,and also to the terminus at Dowlais Central. I'm not sure beyond Pontsticill.

[chrisf]

I don't believe they did, but, as you say, units from the Cathays allocation made it as far as Pant.  I'm rather doubtful about Dowlais Central since it closed in 1960 but as I have the winter 1960-61 WTT handy here are the workings:

 

4.15 am passenger and parcels Queen St - Ystrad Mynach [unadvertised], 5.12 am Ystrad Mynach - Fochriw [unadvertised Ystrad Mynach - Bargoed], 6.35 am Fochriw - Penarth

 

Sats only: 10.10 am empty Queen St - Bargoed, 11.35 am Bargoed - Dowlais Top,12.47 pm Dowlais Top - Queen St

 

12.55 pm empty Rhymney - Bargoed, then on Saturdays only 1.34 pm Bargoed - Pant and 2.30 pm empty Pant - Bargoed, Sats excepted 1.38 pm Bargoed - Fochriw and 2.39 pm Fochriw - Bargoed, 4.35 pm Bargoed - Dowlais Top, 5.30 pm Dowlais Top - Bargoed, 5.55 pm empty Bargoed - Queen Street

 

Note the empty running and the fester of an hour and a half at Bargoed.

 

Chris   

[89A]

Thanks for that Chris.

I'll try and dig out a photo I've seen at Dowlais Central.

Mark

[chrisf]

Thanks, Mark.   I've just checked the summer 1959 WTT and the only dmu working up towards Pant shown in it is the first one on my list, ie the one culminating in the 6.35 am Fochriw - Penarth.  This topic is throwing up all sorts of surprises though so do carry on looking for that photo!

 

Chris 

[Rich Papper]

Hello. Can I just say a massive thank you to Chrisf and all other contributors to this thread. I don't have anything to add I'm afraid other than a vague recollection of a being on an NSE liveried 116 at some point in my youth, but am finding all of it absolutely fascinating. Love a DMU.

Rich

[dibber25]

Success at the end of an hour's searching! I have this photo in black and white (taken by my brother) but I was convinced I also had a colour version taken by me. Finally tracked it down. Apart from their obvious usefulness in helping to resolve painting issues, the little Kodak Enprints of that period have another usefulness. They have a date stamp on the back. I had a rough idea when this was, because I knew we spotted Savernake LL station from the May 9 1964 special with Pendennis Castle, and decided that we must visit this pretty station ASAP. So to the details:

The print is dated August 1964 - so the trip was during school hols (my brother was still at school). So the pic may be late July at the earliest.

The 116 is a two-car missing its centre coach, in plain unlined dark green with 'whiskers' but its one of the later type with head code panel rather than marker lights. By this time, I had stopped taking numbers, which I now regret.

It is also, evidently, a unit transferred from S Wales, as it still has Swansea/Neath mis-wound in the rear box.

From memory, it was a mid-morning Newbury-Westbury local. We had come from Egham-Reading, so would have changed at Reading and again at Newbury. I have a vague feeling Chris may have analysed this on my behalf through RMweb some years ago - my model of this train is numbered W51128, W51141 but I don't recall whether that's based on his suggestion or guesswork based on numbers underlined in my Abc. Don't know whether this photo adds anything to Chris's story but I thought I'd share it anyway - a nice DMU in a lovely setting, all now long gone. (CJL)

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

To say nothing of 1 in 36 from a standing start at Abercynon towards Quaker's Yard on the Taff Vale Main Line; a 3 car set could do this in 2nd gear.

 

I cannot help wondering if the Maerdy power twins were a result of low traffic only requiring 2 vehicles, but that seems pointless if there is no work elsewhere for the removed trailers.  I went up this branch with a 117 on a railtour in the 70s, and it managed perfectly well in 2nd gear, though no great speed was achieved; 25mph tops.  I cannot remember if this was the line speed; Stationmaster to the thread please, paging Stationmaster...

 

Canton guards didn't sign the Valley lines except those with passenger services, and even then we were not expected to be capable of working loose coupled freights which strictly speaking we should have been (if you sign the road you should be able to work any train over it).  I signed the Vale of Glamorgan, and the Aberthaw CEGB branch, and Aber Junction via Penrhos (we worked road salt trains up there every year) but never worked brake van over this route (had a few rides, though!).  The railtour (Gloucester Railway Club?) took me several places I was not wont to wot of with a Radyr pilot; Aberdare, Penderyn, and Maerdy, a very pleasant Saturday and fun for all.  I never understood why it wasn't manned by Radyr men throughout; I relieved a Gloucester guard at Cardiff Central and picked up the pilot at Radyr, as did my driver, and reversed the procedure on the return journey.

 

When I worked at Radyr the train prepairers at the Quarry always said they saved on shunting poles and brake sticks on the Main Line freights as the Canton guards didn’t know what they were.

[dibber25]

Here's an alternative view of that 116 at Calne that I posted earlier in this thread. It's dated August 1965. The branch closed just weeks later. It has prompted me to scan some more of my old Enprints of DMUs in the 1960s, which I'll post under a new heading in the Prototype Discussions section. (CJL)

Edited April 8, 2018 by dibber25