L'heure bleue: a new French layout

[Fat Controller]

That cast-iron bridge  sings 'France' to me; they turn up in the most out-of-the way locations, such as from the D385 at Letra towards my friends' house on the opposite side of the Azergues valley.

[Mike Storey]

The only fault in his work for me, is that he has not done any typically southern/Mediteranean architecture, as it is an area ignored my most of the model manufacturers.

Had forgotten about the Artitec models. To be fair, many of their kits are suitable for some French buildings, pity they are again mainly northern Europe, not southern.

Having said that, I am happy to design my own buildings for 3D printing.

 

I think Southern France/Italy is ignored by practically all of them! I have seen this layout in the flesh (or one extremely like it) and all the buildings were scratchbuilt. I had aspirations to reproduce the station and level crossing at Pietra Ligure at one time (the holiday home town of my wife's Italian side of the family), but I soon realised it would be a life's work...

 

http://www.datrains.eu/2011/11/plastico-litoranea-ligure/

[Andy Hayter]

While I accept the general premise that it is easier to model region 2 (Nord) than 5 or 6 (Sud-Ouest, Sud Est), it is not entirely hopeless.

 

http://82.240.92.237/dev2000/WebPagesGB/acceuil_fer.html&&2wxBSk6c662aNxMopLGoxlCoh24ckTWak6TakT6a

 

https://www.regionsetcompagnies.fr/media/catalogue/2018/catalogue-maquettes-carton-regions-et-compagnies-2018_web.pdf    - only as far south as Bourgogne

 

http://www.boismodelisme.com/store/ho:-1:87eme/architecture

 

http://patrick-gazel.fr/index.php?page=catalogue&echelle=ho    - a bit twee for me but can certainly be used.

 

http://www.architecture-passion.fr/index.php?item=&action=page&group_id=20000017&page=2&lang=FR   - good range of Southern railway architecture

 

 

Of course you have to be picky and an alpine chalet will look wrong on the coast (west or south).

[Mike Storey]

While I accept the general premise that it is easier to model region 2 (Nord) than 5 or 6 (Sud-Ouest, Sud Est), it is not entirely hopeless.

 

http://82.240.92.237/dev2000/WebPagesGB/acceuil_fer.html&&2wxBSk6c662aNxMopLGoxlCoh24ckTWak6TakT6a

 

https://www.regionsetcompagnies.fr/media/catalogue/2018/catalogue-maquettes-carton-regions-et-compagnies-2018_web.pdf    - only as far south as Bourgogne

 

http://www.boismodelisme.com/store/ho:-1:87eme/architecture

 

http://patrick-gazel.fr/index.php?page=catalogue&echelle=ho    - a bit twee for me but can certainly be used.

 

http://www.architecture-passion.fr/index.php?item=&action=page&group_id=20000017&page=2&lang=FR   - good range of Southern railway architecture

 

 

Of course you have to be picky and an alpine chalet will look wrong on the coast (west or south).

 

Some great links there, many thanks.

 

But having reviewed them all, admittedly quickly,  I see no buildings, other than the odd chalet and farm house, that are not simply railway buildings, suitable for south of Lyon? But the PLM railway buildings are very good.

 

Any attempt to model anything outside of the railway boundary, between Perpignan and Menton, will require significant scratchbuilding, or a very rural setting, as things stand. Meanwhile,back to gay Paris?

[br2975]

If this project is as impressive as Cogirep, you're creating another mini masterpiece Al.

[Andy Hayter]

Gazel is probably the best bet for non railway, non alpine models but they tend to be rural rather than urban.

 

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=25

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=224

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=42

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=10

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=236

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=75

 

are all models that could grace a layout based on Ardeche-Drome and probably large bits of Gard and Vaucluse.

[Mike Storey]

Gazel is probably the best bet for non railway, non alpine models but they tend to be rural rather than urban.

 

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=25

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=224

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=42

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=10

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=236

http://patrick-gazel.fr/pages/produit.php?prod_id=75

 

are all models that could grace a layout based on Ardeche-Drome and probably large bits of Gard and Vaucluse.

 

Very nice - I particularly like the Bastide.

 

By coincidence, I have found some further, artisanale suppliers, which are new to me but maybe not to you or others (as listed in Loco-Revue 849, by the builder of the Damyville-en-Caux layout, on which I did not readily recognise the buildings):

 

http://www.train-modelisme.com/index.php?goto=recherche.php

 

http://www.abe28.fr/fr/33-villes-et-villages

 

http://www.abe28.fr/fr/33-villes-et-villages

 

None are really suitable for Southern France layouts, bar one or two structures, but the ABE range looks particularly good for Northern or Mid France locations. I have shown them twice, because there is a different selection in each, despite the address being the same - strange......He still used Auhagen and Decapod for detailing though!

Edited April 11, 2018 by Mike Storey

[rue_d_etropal]

 

 

http://patrick-gazel....php?prod_id=25

http://patrick-gazel...php?prod_id=224

http://patrick-gazel....php?prod_id=42

http://patrick-gazel....php?prod_id=10

http://patrick-gazel...php?prod_id=236

http://patrick-gazel....php?prod_id=75

Nice buildings, but not exactly cheap, compared to the large range of plastic kits for northern Europe. Easier to chop up a kit only costing half the price of one of these.

Granted the market is not as big, and Italeri did dip their toe in the market, but strictly speaking they are 1/72. I did find some resin buildings from a wargaming supplier. I was actually looking for 1/100 scale, but some were slightly bigger, more suited for HO when I get around to doing another layout. models of French colonial buildings can also be found, aka Vietnam.

 

The French market does seem to have moved more towards laser cut and pre printed card. Pity as Redulux, marketed by Loco Revue in France, combined with simple laser cut is used in the Train in a Box package, and at least offers a better(to me) 3D effect. I still prefer kits I can modify, and weather using my mucky wet techniques. Even Provence is not that clean!

Edited April 12, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[Barry Ten]

I'm confident that the buildings will look nicely weathered and in keeping with the overall scene once they're embedded. My rule is a little weathering at a time - apply it, live with it, revisit if necessary - because it's always easier to add more than to remove some. The weathering on Cogirep (which uses plastic, resin, stone-cast and card structures) was done very gradually, over several years. As for the market being skewed toward structures more suitable for northern France, that's never really been a problem for me as my first experiences of French railways were around Calais and Paris (even though my wife's from the south), and that's always been the ambience that fascinates me the most. However, the location of this diorama will be intentionally loose, not necessarily being anywhere in particular other than somewhere on the Nord system.

[rue_d_etropal]

 

The weathering on Cogirep (which uses plastic, resin, stone-cast and card structures) was done very gradually, over several years

Partly because I get bored if a project takes too long, I tend to build my small layouts over a very short period, and I use weatheing techniques that are quick to apply.  Anything made of paper or card would not stand up to my methods. Unfortunately  see far too many layouts with totally un-weathered buildings, not helped with card kit buildings which have been printed with a gloss finish.

My aim is to design suitable buildings for 3D printing. One difficulty is lack of drawings of buildings, and lack of bricks in many to estimate size. Otherwise Google map is a good source of inspiration.

My first steps into France were also the northern ports, not the cleanest places , and the drainage systems had not been updated at the time! Now that might be an nteresting special effect at an exhibition.

[Oldddudders]

 

My first steps into France were also the northern ports, not the cleanest places , and the drainage systems had not been updated at the time! Now that might be an nteresting special effect at an exhibition.

 

I was under the impression that some punters, and the occasional exhibitor, were already doing their best on that front.....

[Barry Ten]

Glimmerings of progress:

 

Around the river/canal area, I've begun facing the walls with concrete blocks, using Wills

sheets fixed to card backing, which is in turn fixed to the foam sheets using PVA and left

to dry very securely. I'll add some railings here and there, as well as some different

materials to mix it up a bit and suggest repairs and improvements over time.

 

 

To add a bit more interest to the road surface, I've cut away sections of it and inlaid some Wills

cobbles, strategically situated to avoid any interference with the Faller vehicle as it trundles

around. I've also distressed the road here and there, using a cutting disk to gouge and disfigure

the surface.

 

 

 

Track laying is well and truly underway. For once, I've wired up a layout for DCC-only, with no provision

for DC operation. I would have been a bit nervous about doing so ten years ago, but after operating

numerous DCC layouts at exhibitions, my own and friends', I'm perfectly happy with the reliability

of both controllers and engines. To that end, I've used frog-juicers to wire up the points and double

slips, which proved straightforward to install and operate. The next step will be to run all the points

through an accessory decoder. Again, it's not something I'd have done in the past, but I really

want this to be a hands-off layout, where I can stand back and operate without needing to get in really

close to the action. With just four points (at present) I think it should be manageable and run little

risk of inadvertent short circuits. As a further DCC provision, all track is live at all times, so that

even if a point is set against a siding, a loco could still sit on the track and burble away, providing

some ambient sound.

 

 

It's not all layout building, as some time also has to be put into locomotives and rolling stock. While I've

got a reasonable selection of diesel era items for use on Cogirep, which will be equally suitable for this

layout, there will be more steam-outline equipment in service, such as this USA tank from REE. It's

been weathered, but I still need to order some coupler adaptors to enable it to be fitted with Kadees.

 

 

That's it for now!

[rue_d_etropal]

I am always wary of anyone who says they are now happy to do something like wiring up layout just for DCC. It does not take much effort to install breaks in rails and a few switches, just in case. Who knows what will be the norm in a few years time, but then some are less bothered in the future.  If I was offered a layout to buy, and it was DCC only then I would have to decline, however nice it was.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I'm as old-fashioned (luddite, non-tecchie) as anybody.

 

But any future developments are surely going to involve control systems that don't involve switching on/off sections of track.

[w124bob]

I remember seeing your first layout in Continental Modeller(which one?) and thinking I could move that across the Atlantic! This new layout looks good, funny how I always cone back from France with several model railway magazines despite not being that fluent with the lingo. Keep us posted.

[Barry Ten]

I am always wary of anyone who says they are now happy to do something like wiring up layout just for DCC. It does not take much effort to install breaks in rails and a few switches, just in case. Who knows what will be the norm in a few years time, but then some are less bothered in the future.  If I was offered a layout to buy, and it was DCC only then I would have to decline, however nice it was.

 

But we weren't talking about the re-sale potential of my layout. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Barry Ten

[Pacific231G]

But, since we weren't talking about the re-sale potential of my layout, I'm struggling to understand the remote relevance of this comment. 

What's the opposite of future-proofing-  heritage proofing? 

I'm unlikely to move away from DC but if I was starting from scratch I'd be very inclined to go down the DCC route.  I recently started work again on an H0m layout that's been in storage for some time and it took me quite a while to figure out the wiring. It's not so much the underboard wiring but the hideous number of conductors in the control panel umbilical and that's for a layout with just five motorised points and no sectioning ! 

We all know that DCC involves more than just attaching two wires to the layout but how much simplification of wiring are you getting from using frog juicers?  

 

Personally, if I didn't have so much "heritage" DC motive power I'd be looking not just at DCC but toward some kind of radio control of autonomous locos with little or no power transmission through the rails.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Pacific231G]

Some great links there, many thanks.

 

But having reviewed them all, admittedly quickly,  I see no buildings, other than the odd chalet and farm house, that are not simply railway buildings, suitable for south of Lyon? But the PLM railway buildings are very good.

 

Any attempt to model anything outside of the railway boundary, between Perpignan and Menton, will require significant scratchbuilding, or a very rural setting, as things stand. Meanwhile,back to gay Paris?

I could be wrong but my impression has always been that,apart from roofs with their different materials- zinc, slates, tiles or roman tiles- and pitch, there's not a lot of difference in the basic architecture of many urban buildings  across most of France.  I'm sure I've seen similar nineteenth century buildings in Dax as in Chartres. Older and particulatly rural buildings are far more vernacular but the areas around stations, which is what we tend to be interested in,  were usually developed after the railway arrived so don't cover such a range of architectural epoques as say ancient city centres. You do see more bricks and distinctly Flemish styles in the far north, a certain amount of half timbering in Normandy and some stone buildings in Brittany that look rather British  but a lot more seem to have the same basic features. French buildings are distinct from British, German or Dutch buildings but apart from some regional specialities within France there seems to be a lot of commonality.

I've got some files on French urban buildings that I've used to find appropriate buildings for my own layouts so I'll look again to see what regonal differences are apparent.  

Edited May 10, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Barry Ten]

I remember seeing your first layout in Continental Modeller(which one?) and thinking I could move that across the Atlantic! This new layout looks good, funny how I always cone back from France with several model railway magazines despite not being that fluent with the lingo. Keep us posted.

 

It was in 2010 I believe, but I don't remember which issue. The photos were taken at Camrail the preceeding year. I always felt it would have looked OK in a North American context with only a few changes, representing a brewery or something similar.

 

I keep a French dictionary by my bedside for reading Loco Revue, etc, and my wife's never far away if I get really stuck.

[Barry Ten]

What's the opposite of future-proofing-  heritage proofing? 

I'm unlikely to move away from DC but if I was starting from scratch I'd be very inclined to go down the DCC route.  I recently started work again on an H0m layout that's been in storage for some time and it took me quite a while to figure out the wiring. It's not so much the underboard wiring but the hideous number of conductors in the control panel umbilical and that's for a layout with just five motorised points and no sectioning ! 

We all know that DCC involves more than just attaching two wires to the layout but how much simplification of wiring are you getting from using frog juicers?  

 

Personally, if I didn't have so much "heritage" DC motive power I'd be looking not just at DCC but toward some kind of radio control of autonomous locos with little or no power transmission through the rails.

 

Yes, I agree that - ultimately - radio transmission with on-board power is surely the way to go.

 

I'm not sure that the juicers reduce the number of wired connections, necessarily, but they do make the installation much quicker. And it would be a lot easier to swap a juicer, if one

failed, then a micro-switch buried under pointwork and ballasting.

[Mike Storey]

I could be wrong but my impression has always been that,apart from roofs with their different materials- zinc, slates, tiles or roman tiles- and pitch, there's not a lot of difference in the basic architecture of many urban buildings  across most of France.  I'm sure I've seen similar nineteenth century buildings in Dax as in Chartres. Older and particulatly rural buildings are far more vernacular but the areas around stations, which is what we tend to be interested in,  were usually developed after the railway arrived so don't cover such a range of architectural epoques as say ancient city centres. You do see more bricks and distinctly Flemish styles in the far north, a certain amount of half timbering in Normandy and some stone buildings in Brittany that look rather British  but a lot more seem to have the same basic features. French buildings are distinct from British, German or Dutch buildings but apart from some regional specialities within France there seems to be a lot of commonality.

I've got some files on French urban buildings that I've used to find appropriate buildings for my own layouts so I'll look again to see what regonal differences are apparent.  

 

That is certainly true of modern buildings these days, but even with them, and certainly older buildings, the roof pitch is the key difference across all regions, particularly between those which suffer heavy snowfall, and those that do not. In Poitou Charente, we have a very distinctive style of building, which is called Charentaise, where many old houses have very small windows on the first floor. This is because most houses here were built to have the living accommodation on the ground floor and used the first floor as a hay loft, or similar. The design of the barns is also very different form those in the north and east, and certainly the south. It is so rocky/stony underground, that these houses (including ours) were built by digging a big hole and using the rock/stone extracted from the hole to build the house and barn. This leaves a huge cellar, but most of these are below the water table and mostly useless.

 

The most common type of older house across all of France, is the Maison de Maitre, or town house, where wealth dictated the use of brick for decoration, and floors of a height where you did not need to duck under the beams. Many railways followed this style, to evidence a stability and assuredness of their permanence (mostly misplaced, as it turned out).

[w124bob]

Former railway property is fairly easy to find forsale, just search "vente de maison garde barreire". Some will test your DIY skills, I searched out one last year north of Angoulem which had been advertised in RailNews of all places. At £39k fully renovated and a decent sized garden I loved it. The short road is now a dead end but the busy line has now lost the TVG traffic. It's still on the market now with a well known agent. It had lost it's railway identity but I'm sure it would be easy to put a bit back with some research. By coincidence a French railway DVD catalogue came in the post this morning.

[Mike Storey]

Former railway property is fairly easy to find forsale, just search "vente de maison garde barreire". Some will test your DIY skills, I searched out one last year north of Angoulem which had been advertised in RailNews of all places. At £39k fully renovated and a decent sized garden I loved it. The short road is now a dead end but the busy line has now lost the TVG traffic. It's still on the market now with a well known agent. It had lost it's railway identity but I'm sure it would be easy to put a bit back with some research. By coincidence a French railway DVD catalogue came in the post this morning.

 

True, that will find you old level crossing keepers' houses normally. "Anciennes gares a vendre" will find you a few more. Trouble is the French have mostly wised up to the value, so bargains are much rarer these days.

[w124bob]

True, that will find you old level crossing keepers' houses normally. "Anciennes gares a vendre" will find you a few more. Trouble is the French have mostly wised up to the value, so bargains are much rarer these days.

Anciennes gares a vendre, now you've done it! If you're close to Civray the cottage I looked was at St Saviol.

[Mike Storey]

Anciennes gares a vendre, now you've done it! If you're close to Civray the cottage I looked was at St Saviol.

 

I am, and I think I know the one you mean!! Not for us - no garden to speak of - often the drawback with such properties. Friends here live in the old station at Villemorin-Contre, they have even tried to preserve the old ticket window, but they were lucky in that they could purchase a bit of land adjacent, otherwise they would just have had the old goods yard - one siding and a concrete apron.