Wagon Identification Required

[TheSignalEngineer]

Trawling through magazines and books for wagons likely to have worked in the area of my layout I have come across a couple that I don't recognise and can't identify at the moment. Both date from the mid 1950s. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

The first was a rake of wagons in a train near to Nuneaton TV in 1953. They appear to be long wheelbase high sided wagons with no side doors and have a sheet rail. One wagon although of a similar type appears to be not so high.

 

 

The second in a train from the Banbury area in 1956. I regularly saw iron ore trains in the area from about 1960 to the closure of the mines but never saw any wooden bodied wagons on these. I was wondering if this one was of North Eastern origin. It has some lettering on the side, possibly Iron Ore, looks like a steel underframe, bottom door markings, no drop-down side doors and is about the height of a wooden wagon with coke raves. Any suggestions as to it's origin?

 

 

Thanks again for looking.

[Wickham Green]

Trawling through magazines and books for wagons likely to have worked in the area of my layout I have come across a couple that I don't recognise and can't identify at the moment. Both date from the mid 1950s. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

The first was a rake of wagons in a train near to Nuneaton TV in 1953. They appear to be long wheelbase high sided wagons with no side doors and have a sheet rail. One wagon although of a similar type appears to be not so high.

 

Nuneaton LWB Wagon.jpg

 

The second in a train from the Banbury area in 1956. I regularly saw iron ore trains in the area from about 1960 to the closure of the mines but never saw any wooden bodied wagons on these. I was wondering if this one was of North Eastern origin. It has some lettering on the side, possibly Iron Ore, looks like a steel underframe, bottom door markings, no drop-down side doors and is about the height of a wooden wagon with coke raves. Any suggestions as to it's origin?

 

Ore Wagon Southam.jpg

 

Thanks again for looking.

The upper wagons were what we'd now tern 'open box wagons' with no doors, carrying pulverised coal for - if I remember rightly - the British Electricity Authority : one or two are preserved at Foxfield.

The lower one, though it may not look like it, is a hopper wagon not unlike the NER family but without doubt Privately Owned in this instance : it may look to be carrying a far greater load than its neighbours but there's an awful lot of fresh air in that rectangular body as well as the hopper-ful of iron ore.

[31A]

To me, the upper ones look very much like LMS Soda Ash wagons (Diagram 2022 built 1939 nos, 689100-689149, "An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons", Vol. 1, R. J. Essery).  These had sheet rails and no doors, and had ladders for access towards one end of the side.  There was an earlier Diagram (2691 built 1936) but these had lower sides - one of these might be visible at the extreme left.  One of the pictures in the book shows a newly built wagon branded "Fleetwood to Silvertown", which ties in with passing through Nuneaton.

Edited March 29, 2018 by 31A

[Wickham Green]

To me, the upper ones look very much like LMS Soda Ash wagons (Diagram 2022 built 1939 nos, 689100-689149, "An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons", Vol. 1, R. J. Essery).  These had sheet rails and no doors, and had ladders for access towards one end of the side.  There was an earlier Diagram (2691 built 1936) but these had lower sides - one of these might be visible at the extreme left.  One of the pictures in the book shows a newly built wagon branded "Fleetwood to Silvertown", which ties in with passing through Nuneaton.

Now you mention it - yes - they're probably Soda Ash wagons ...... somewhat taller than the pulverised coal type - suggesting a less dense cargo.

[hmrspaul]

The wooden wagon appears to be one of the WW1 ex Ministry of Munitions which then went into Private ownership and became part of the P fleet of iron ore wagons.

 

History and drawings in

 

Fidczuk, Peter (1995a) Ministry of Munitions Iron Ore Wagons part 1 Journal of the Historical Model Railway Society Vol. 15 (part 6) pp 178 - 186.

Fidczuk, Peter (1995b) Ministry of Munitions Iron Ore Wagons part 2. Journal of the Historical Model Railway Society Vol. 15 (part 8) pp 254 - 265.

Fidczuk, Peter (1999) Ministry of munitions iron ore wagons. Journal of the Historical Model Railway Society 16 (part 9), pp 330 - 331.

 

Paul

Edited March 29, 2018 by hmrspaul

[TheSignalEngineer]

The upper wagons were what we'd now tern 'open box wagons' with no doors, carrying pulverised coal for - if I remember rightly - the British Electricity Authority : one or two are preserved at Foxfield.

 

The ones used for power stations that I remember were like a 'Felix Pole' 20T without any doors. The West Midlands Joint Electricity Authority had some which went to the CEGB. There was one still parked at Nechells power station in the early 1980s.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The wooden wagon appears to be one of the WW1 ex Ministry of Munitions which then went into Private ownership and became part of the P fleet of iron ore wagons.

 

History and drawings in

 

Fidczuk, Peter (1995a) Ministry of Munitions Iron Ore Wagons part 1 Journal of the Historical Model Railway Society Vol. 15 (part 6) pp 178 - 186.

Fidczuk, Peter (1995b) Ministry of Munitions Iron Ore Wagons part 2. Journal of the Historical Model Railway Society Vol. 15 (part 8) pp 254 - 265.

Fidczuk, Peter (1999) Ministry of munitions iron ore wagons. Journal of the Historical Model Railway Society 16 (part 9), pp 330 - 331.

 

Paul

Thanks Paul. It certainly looks quite old even in 1953 when the picture was dated. Ironically the train was hauled by an ex-ROD 2-8-0 from WWI

[MarcD]

I would agree with the the second wagon being a MoM ore wagon. As it looks to tall to be the Furness Railway version which pre-dates the MoM wagons by 7 years. Both were rated at 20t but the MoM type were 1 plank taller as the ore carried was less dense than that mined in Lancashire and Cumberland.

Marc

[Fat Controller]

The ones used for power stations that I remember were like a 'Felix Pole' 20T without any doors. The West Midlands Joint Electricity Authority had some which went to the CEGB. There was one still parked at Nechells power station in the early 1980s.

In the 1970s and early 1980s, these were still common around the Stoke area, working from the local pits to Meaford power station alongside BR 21-tonners. There were purpose-built, having neither side nor end doors.

[Mark Saunders]

The first one is showing the LMS Soda Ash wagons, based on the RCH 21 ton all steel mineral but these one had no doors and were much taller due to the low density of the load! There was also a build that were too the same height as the minerals.

 

The diagram is in Essery vol 1

 

Mark Saunders

[TheSignalEngineer]

In the 1970s and early 1980s, these were still common around the Stoke area, working from the local pits to Meaford power station alongside BR 21-tonners. There were purpose-built, having neither side nor end doors.

I spent a while in 1971/2 based at Glebe Street with the S&T Area Engineer and Supervisors. I remember a lot of 21T minerals going into Meaford when we relaid the main line connection there.