Southern Pride Models

[37114]

I have made a few SP kits over the years, Yes the ordering experience is a bit 198s but it is quick enough. Obviously the range is slowly getting picked off by mainstream manufacturers but models like the Newton Chambers car carrier are unlikely to get duplicated and are worth purchasing.

[Willie Whizz]

Oh I agree - but I’m pretty sure the ‘dormancy’ of this page of the SP website pre-dates the Bachmann announcement, let alone the Hornby one.

[ScRSG]

Just received an order from SP yesterday, so all is well!

[barrymx5]

I built a couple of their excellent BR coaches some time back, and found them relatively straightforward and with good instructions (certainly by typical model railway kit standards!); if you have built a reasonably advanced Airfix plastic kit, or something from Parkside more complex than a wagon, you should have no great difficulty.  The main challenge I found was protecting the finish on the sides while handling the coach to assemble it.

 

Sadly, Southern Pride seem to be a classic example of the typical small supplier found in the world of railway modelling, who undoubtedly produces a good product but lacks the will, skill, time, mojo, motivation or whatever to market it effectively.  There are any number of perfectly valid explanations (and some perfectly invalid ones) available as to why that might be - some positively like to keep things small and cosy and just deal with mates and kindred spirits; some have 'day jobs' or other commitments and genuinely couldn't cope with any greater level of demand; some seem to regard customers and their questions as just a bloo%y nuisance; some simply have no desire or aspiration to grow their business, or fear 'bigger' might mean less profit, not more; some are reluctant to put any more time and effort into developing their range or service but regard it as a small-scale 'cash cow' while it lasts ... and so on.

 

What really irks me is that quite a few of them seem not to embrace the Internet at all, instead relying heavily on an "old boy network" of skilled and committed (but often ageing) modellers for their custom.  And of those that do have some form of Web presence, quite a few seem to make no real attempt to use e-mail properly and promptly, nor to make their websites user-friendly or, especially, to keep them up-to-date.  Coopercraft is perhaps the best example of that (quite apart from the allegations on other threads about their business ethics, which I will not elaborate upon here, but to be fair I believe is otherwise very rare); but other examples are easy to find. 

 

Southern Pride too is something of an example of this; yes, there are very occasional updates to a few of the pages but others seem not to have been touched for years - I have been looking at the SR Bulleid Coaches page for several years now; and it still shows "these products have been withdrawn for improvements to the range" (or words to that effect).  Had they been available, over that timescale I'd certainly have bought 3-4, and Lord knows how many other sales have been foregone to other modellers over that period who are still waiting, waiting ... and if the "improvements" are indeed still even under development, at this rate of progress one of the major manufacturers will bring out R-T-R versions within the next few years before Southern Pride finish their work, and then he'll have lost his market and the investment put-in.  If there's no realistic prospect they ever will appear now, why not just say so at the front of the Site and delete the redundant page, for goodness sake?!

 

Such a shame because, as I said at the outset, the product quality is indeed excellent and the pricing fair.

I have just come across this post and agree with it completely. It is indeed sad that not only SP but so many other SME companies in our hobby fail on so many fronts. And so leave the way open to the “big boys” at least some of whom are not very professional at linking their production and marketing- surely a key element in any manufacturing business . So yes I am very grateful that there are now RTR products which I could only once dream about; but I did have to wait up to 7 years for their availability.

There are new(ish) companies out there who are bucking the trend and that is encouraging. DCC Concepts and Oxford Diecast come to mind; both have made some mistakes along the way but are innovative and keen to put things right if they make mistakes. And it is possible to run an efficient innovative business without giving up the day job - Youchoos proves that. Usual disclaimer for all companies.

[LongRail]

I have just come across this post and agree with it completely. It is indeed sad that not only SP but so many other SME companies in our hobby fail on so many fronts. And so leave the way open to the “big boys” at least some of whom are not very professional at linking their production and marketing- surely a key element in any manufacturing business . So yes I am very grateful that there are now RTR products which I could only once dream about; but I did have to wait up to 7 years for their availability.

There are new(ish) companies out there who are bucking the trend and that is encouraging. DCC Concepts and Oxford Diecast come to mind; both have made some mistakes along the way but are innovative and keen to put things right if they make mistakes. And it is possible to run an efficient innovative business without giving up the day job - Youchoos proves that. Usual disclaimer for all companies.

 

Barry I dont see how SP fail in any way the products are excellent and not made by other manufacturers, you cant pay electronically but that is not the end of the world and the products make up for that 

[cctransuk]

Barry I dont see how SP fail in any way the products are excellent and not made by other manufacturers, you cant pay electronically but that is not the end of the world and the products make up for that 

 

If the current website and trading practices generate the level of trading that the owner can handle, and there is no aspiration to generate more trade volume, what possible incentive is there for the owner " to market it effectively"?

 

As I have said before - as a small supplier myself - just because the customer would find it easier if websites and trading practices were 'all-singing, all dancing', is not a reason to condemn the business.

 

Customers who seek out these niche products, and are prepared to incur a bit of inconvenience to obtain them, are generally capable of using them without support.

 

Sadly, the same cannot always be said of those of the 'I want it yesterday' persuasion! The correspondence which ensues with such types - both before and after the purchase - is simply too time-consuming to be viable.

 

So - unsophisticated trading practices are not always the product of indolence; they can serve a useful function in 'sorting the wheat from the chaff'.

 

The voice of experience speaks!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited January 26, 2019 by cctransuk

[barrymx5]

If the current website and trading practices generate the level of trading that the owner can handle, and there is no aspiration to generate more trade volume, what possible incentive is there for the owner " to market it effectively"?

 

As I have said before - as a small supplier myself - just because the customer would find it easier if websites and trading practices were 'all-singing, all dancing', is not a reason to condemn the business.

 

Customers who seek out these niche products, and are prepared to incur a bit of inconvenience to obtain them, are generally capable of using them without support.

 

Sadly, the same cannot always be said of those of the 'I want it yesterday' persuasion! The correspondence which ensues with such types - both before and after the purchase - is simply too time-consuming to be viable.

 

So - unsophisticated trading practices are not always the product of indolence; they can serve a useful function in 'sorting the wheat from the chaff'.

 

The voice of experience speaks!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

John

I am always willing to listen to the voice of experience and am very interested in your comments.

What I find sad (and I am speaking generally rather than of SP) is when ANY business fails to meet its full potential.

[cctransuk]

What I find sad (and I am speaking generally rather than of SP) is when ANY business fails to meet its full potential.

 

.... from whose perspective, though?

 

A business can fulfil innumerable objectives, profit being only one - and not necessarily the greatest. I would be willing to wager a very large sum that profit and gross volume potential are way down the list of most model railway small suppliers.

 

Many (most) will be akin to me. I was motivated to find an alternative supply of transfers by the trading demise of Woodhead Transfers - in its time the epitome of model railway transfers.

 

I researched the possibilities of home production, and found that there was a range of printers that were within the budget of many modellers, and that could print white - a prerequisite of transfer printing in order to obtain white lettering and opaque colours.

 

I went ahead and bought one of these printers; (Alps Microdry - now extinct); and produced my own transfers. Being somewhat elated, I wrote to the editor of MRJ and recommended these printers to other modellers, and the letter was duly published. Coinciding with the publication of my letter was the demise in the UK of the Alps Microdry printer range.

 

Needless to say, I was inundated with requests to supply transfers to the wider modelling fraternity - hence Cambridge Custom Transfers ( https://www.cctrans.org.uk/ ). I have supplied transfers that I need myself to other modellers for twenty years now, but at no time did I intend to do so; I simply produced something for my own use that other modellers were willing to buy.

 

Being a small supplier is a two-edged sword. It seriously eats into your own modelling time, but it generates funds which allow one to obtain models and tools which might otherwise be beyond one's budget. Above all, it is a delicate balancing act between developing the range and customer base, against the impact that would have on what was always intended to be a model railway hobby.

 

The primary mistake many potential customers make is to assume that all suppliers wish to maximise sales - that is far from being the case in many niche businesses.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[barrymx5]

.... from whose perspective, though?

 

A business can fulfil innumerable objectives, profit being only one - and not necessarily the greatest. I would be willing to wager a very large sum that profit and gross volume potential are way down the list of most model railway small suppliers.

 

Many (most) will be akin to me. I was motivated to find an alternative supply of transfers by the trading demise of Woodhead Transfers - in its time the epitome of model railway transfers.

 

I researched the possibilities of home production, and found that there was a range of printers that were within the budget of many modellers, and that could print white - a prerequisite of transfer printing in order to obtain white lettering and opaque colours.

 

I went ahead and bought one of these printers; (Alps Microdry - now extinct); and produced my own transfers. Being somewhat elated, I wrote to the editor of MRJ and recommended these printers to other modellers, and the letter was duly published. Coinciding with the publication of my letter was the demise in the UK of the Alps Microdry printer range.

 

Needless to say, I was inundated with requests to supply transfers to the wider modelling fraternity - hence Cambridge Custom Transfers ( https://www.cctrans.org.uk/ ). I have supplied transfers that I need myself to other modellers for twenty years now, but at no time did I intend to do so; I simply produced something for my own use that other modellers were willing to buy.

 

Being a small supplier is a two-edged sword. It seriously eats into your own modelling time, but it generates funds which allow one to obtain models and tools which might otherwise be beyond one's budget. Above all, it is a delicate balancing act between developing the range and customer base, against the impact that would have on what was always intended to be a model railway hobby.

 

The primary mistake many potential customers make is to assume that all suppliers wish to maximise sales - that is far from being the case in many niche businesses.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Thanks John. Interesting. But I notice you do not regard yourself as a “business”.

“When my ability to print waterslide transfers became known, I was asked to make my sheets available to fellow railway modellers. This I was happy to do on an informal basis, but I had no desire to set up a business as such.”

 

Ok so Cottage industries can satisfy a need. But having been involved in several startups (not in model railways) an ambition is a common theme. And eggs and baskets are always a danger. But you recognise that with your foray into Japanese motors.

 

But I still maintain that the hobby needs more efficiency, sophistication and professionalism in tune with 21st Century developments. Your statement that you would like more time to spend on your modelling argues surely for greater efficiency in the non-business.

 

I don’t think we will agree on this. We start from very different viewpoints. It just leaves me to wish you good luck with your enterprise. You may even have found yourself a new customer!

[cctransuk]

But I still maintain that the hobby needs more efficiency, sophistication and professionalism in tune with 21st Century developments. Your statement that you would like more time to spend on your modelling argues surely for greater efficiency in the non-business.

 

The point, surely, is that the majority of small suppliers seem not to agree with you - and they speak from experience. Perhaps you could find a niche with which to demonstrate good practice in a small business?

 

As for myself, my efficiency comes from deliberately not encouraging the sector of the potential market that has proved itself not to be cost-efficient. Technology does not have a monopoly on market control and development!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited January 26, 2019 by cctransuk

[cctransuk]

..eggs and baskets are always a danger. But you recognise that with your foray into Japanese motors

 

Wrong again - Mashima motors became scarce and I looked for an alternative.

 

When I found one, I passed on the knowledge to other modellers - who asked me to supply them.

 

I like to share the benefits of my own discoveries - sometimes to the detriment of my own modelling.

 

It seems that we have totally separate perspectives on life - I merely wish to assist other modellers; you seem to regard all activities as business opportunities which should be exploited to the full.

 

Vive la difference!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited January 27, 2019 by cctransuk

[newbryford]

Wrong again - Mashima motors became scare and I looked for an alternative.

 

When I found one, I passed on the knowledge to other modellers - who asked me to supply them.

 

I like to share the benefits of my own discoveries - sometimes to the detriment of my own modelling.

 

It seems that we have totally separate perspectives on life - I merely wish to assist other modellers; you seem to regard all activities as business opportunities which should be exploited to the full.

 

Vive la difference!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I once got an etch made for my own purposes to convert a coach. To offset the cost of the producing it, I decided to get a few extra made to cover the cost of developing the etch (and make a few quid for other models) and offered them for sale. Before long, I had a "wishlist"of etches for other coaches.

Although I could have made a bit extra as a "business", I quickly decided that I would not go down that route as it would seriously diminish my already precious modelling time.

 

I have had many offers for my (mostly yellow) models - or to build duplicates of them, but have always resisted. Preferring to provide the means to others to build their own via my threads or modelling demos at shows.

 

Basically, I make models for me and if I can cover the costs of doing so, then I will.

 

Having said that, I'm now looking at another etched project............ I will follow the same business model as above.

i.e. It will hopefully part-fund some of my other modelling projects.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[37114]

An example of why we need providers like SP, I doubt we will see ones of these any time soon from an RTR manufacturer. Some XP64 coaches are on the "to be purchased"list as well...

 

[royaloak]

If the current website and trading practices generate the level of trading that the owner can handle, and there is no aspiration to generate more trade volume, what possible incentive is there for the owner " to market it effectively"?

 

As I have said before - as a small supplier myself - just because the customer would find it easier if websites and trading practices were 'all-singing, all dancing', is not a reason to condemn the business.

 

Customers who seek out these niche products, and are prepared to incur a bit of inconvenience to obtain them, are generally capable of using them without support.

 

Sadly, the same cannot always be said of those of the 'I want it yesterday' persuasion! The correspondence which ensues with such types - both before and after the purchase - is simply too time-consuming to be viable.

 

So - unsophisticated trading practices are not always the product of indolence; they can serve a useful function in 'sorting the wheat from the chaff'.

 

The voice of experience speaks!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

100% agree with this, remember RT Models have 'had a holiday' as it, and the day job, all became too much for the sole proprietor to handle, sometimes we need to be thankful for what we have instead of complaining about what could be.

 

SP obviously find it easier to deal in cheques so if we want to deal with the company that is what we have to use.  

[Willie Whizz]

As I did say in my original post, some months back:

 

"Sadly, Southern Pride seem to be a classic example of the typical small supplier found in the world of railway modelling, who undoubtedly produces a good product but lacks the will, skill, time, mojo, motivation or whatever to market it effectively.  There are any number of perfectly valid explanations (and some perfectly invalid ones) available as to why that might be - some positively like to keep things small and cosy and just deal with mates and kindred spirits; some have 'day jobs' or other commitments and genuinely couldn't cope with any greater level of demand; some seem to regard customers and their questions as just a bloo%y nuisance; some simply have no desire or aspiration to grow their business, or fear 'bigger' might mean less profit, not more; some are reluctant to put any more time and effort into developing their range or service but regard it as a small-scale 'cash cow' while it lasts ... and so on."

 

Fair enough.

 

But what remains inexcusable is those suppliers - thankfully fairly few - who say they communicate by certain means, and/or offer offer certain payment methods - but in practice simply don't.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Willie Whizz

[Oldddudders]

It is odd, isn’t it, that in a hobby that reveres the past, and olden times ways of living and working, the attitude to business practices in 2019 are the subject of dispute if not distinctly C21.

 

Perhaps, like his religion, his politics or his choice of football club, a man’s business practices are his own affair?

[Siberian Snooper]

I have met the owner of SP, when I did a cash transaction. He's knocking on a bit. I don't think he's too worried about making a fortune, he just needs something to occupy him, so long as he covers his costs.

[Mike Storey]

One other issue that deters cottage businesses from expanding beyond a certain turnover (although I am not up to date with current values) is a fear of additional costs if they move up a notch - both from possibly having to pay commercial rates, if their operation occupies more than a certain percentage of area of a domestic dwelling, and going past the VAT threshold., which then becomes a nightmare.

[sjp23480]

Reverting back to SP products, I am contemplating buying a couple of their more unusual BR MK1 coaches in blue/grey livery. 

 

I would like to ask if anyone has any experience runnung these with recent Hornby/Bachmann coaches and how the two livery applications compare?  

 

If someone has a picture with the two products side by side, that would be really helpful.

 

Many thanks, 

Steve

[37114]

1 hour ago, sjp23480 said:

Reverting back to SP products, I am contemplating buying a couple of their more unusual BR MK1 coaches in blue/grey livery. 

 

I would like to ask if anyone has any experience runnung these with recent Hornby/Bachmann coaches and how the two livery applications compare?  

 

If someone has a picture with the two products side by side, that would be really helpful.

 

Many thanks, 

Steve

Please see below some comparisons. I take it you mean coaches with the pre-printed sides such as the TPO stock rather than some of the coaches like the XP64 stock which is in the Etchmaster range and thus needs spraying?

 

Below is a picture of an SP TPO next to a standard Bachmann MK1 (sorry I don't have any Hornby stock). The SP sides grey is a good match but the blue is darker. You will need to spray the roof but the railmatch roof colour is a good match for Bachmann

 

 

 

 

In this pic I have added part of a MK1 repainted with railmatch paints:

 

Personally I think the railmatch colour is the best of the 3 options, that said there were natural variants within rakes as carriages had been outshopped at different times. I have 3 SP coaches on my layout and there are a few pics on both my layout threads of them mixed with other stock, personally the colour difference has never jarred.

 

[Willie Whizz]

On 1/28/2019 at 7:24 PM, Oldddudders said:

It is odd, isn’t it, that in a hobby that reveres the past, and olden times ways of living and working, the attitude to business practices in 2019 are the subject of dispute if not distinctly C21.

 

Perhaps, like his religion, his politics or his choice of football club, a man’s business practices are his own affair?

 

I agree entirely - provided, as I say, that your hypothetical man's advertising and his website (if any) don't promise something he can't, or won't, do in practice.  If  such a chap will only deal with his customers by post or telephone, say for example, then fair enough, he has that right - but he should make that clear, and should not then show e-mail as a method of ordering or getting in touch when he does not monitor or respond to e-mails that are sent to him.  Working in such a way only serves inevitably to frustrate his would-be customers at best, and often to anger them - which surely should not be the object of the exercise?

 

It is - or should be - as simple as that.  Unfortunately there are enough periodic examples on this Forum to suggest that at times it isn't.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Willie Whizz

[Barry O]

well some one could always buy the range and run it "properly" to a high standard. 

easier than moaning on about it!

 

baz

[37114]

1 hour ago, Willie Whizz said:

 

I agree entirely - provided, as I say, that your hypothetical man's advertising and his website (if any) don't promise something he can't, or won't, do in practice.  If  such a chap will only deal with his customers by post or telephone, say for example, then fair enough, he has that right - but he should make that clear, and should not then show e-mail as a method of ordering or getting in touch when he does not monitor or respond to e-mails that are sent to him.  Working in such a way only serves inevitably to frustrate his would-be customers at best, and often to anger them - which surely should not be the object of the exercise?

 

It is - or should be - as simple as that.  Unfortunately there are enough periodic examples on this Forum to suggest that at times it isn't.

 

 

 

I emailed the owner last Sunday to enquire about availability of a kit I wanted via the enquiry page on the website, he replied on Monday answering the question I asked. The notes on the website provide a link to an order form which is clear. Yes he only accepts PO's, cash or cheque but he explains that on the website and it is easy enough to write a cheque, fill out the order form and post it. Yes the ordering experience is a bit 1980's but in the scheme of things it is easier than trying to make that obscure prototype coach from scratch. 

[Geep7]

Sent an order by post last Thursday along with a cheque, and my items have arrived today. That's fantastic service for mail order.

 

Takes me back to my earliest modelling days ordering from Taylor Plastic Models....

[Esmedune]

I've just come across this thread after two years, and I don't know if SP are still going, now that cheque book are confined to history, but everything I've looked at on the site had a big juicy red cross next to it. 

It appears I am doomed to wait for my eBay searches to come up with something, but I'd have loved some of his range