Egypt

[d&h]

Saw this on the BBC web site today, a "tramway" from moving the finds from King Tutankhamun's tomb.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44636774

 

Could make for a very unusual model

[EddieB]

The Greeks have something similar on top of the Acropolis, Athens.  A large gantry is used to raise stone blocks onto skates, which are then moved manually about the site. 

 

[Nile]

I think there was an entry for the Dave Brewer challenge at ExpoNG a few years ago inspired by this. I might even have a photo of it, but can't find it right now.

[Nile]

Not sure this is the one I was thinking of, but this is what I found tonight.

[Dava]

Has anyone modelled the Egyptian Delta Light Railways? Sentinel heaven...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Delta_Light_Railways

 

Dava

[TonyA]

This one featured on the Carl Arendt website.

 

http://www.secondintention.com/pleasure/tanis/

 

Tony

[jamie92208]

Some years ago we went to Egypt and did a 2 day trip to Luxor which included the Valley of the Kings.   There were no tracks there but I did find a cache of Hudson track and wagons just outside the main temple at Luxor.   I've got some photos somewhere but they're not digital.  As I lived in the same village as Robert Hudson's factory for nearly 40 years it was of great interest to me. Not sure that my wife was interested though.   The sugar cane railways along the Nile were fascinating.

 

Jamie

[fezza]

Would love to find out more about the Delta system. There is very little in the ESR archive in Cairo - I checked last year. Apart from a few annual reports, a map and a rule book I have found very little - and I found all that stuff in the UK. Amazing that such an extensive system left such a limited record.

 

A couple of sugar cane railways still operate near Luxor.

 

There is no railway at Tanis in case anyone is wondering.

 

Just about the only other narrow gauge left is a very short stretch of the Heliopolis Tramway - and I'm not sure that sees any public services although I saw a tram moving earlier this year.

[fezza]

Has anyone modelled the Egyptian Delta Light Railways? Sentinel heaven...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Delta_Light_Railways

 

Dava

When I lived in Egypt I started modelling a private cotton estate line that interchanged with the EDLR. I used Roco feldbahn stock as the starting point. Then it was abandoned in a move...

 

Baldwin WW1 locos made it to Egypt on military railways - it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine Bachmann's new model ending up on the Delta system or one of the similar French owned lines in Egypt.

[009 micro modeller]

Not sure this is the one I was thinking of, but this is what I found tonight.

DBC_01.JPG

Ah yes - Temple of Pfalocos (as in an anagram of foolscap). I was next to this at Expo. It was a great idea and the figure on the top line actually moved on a sort of belt to push the wagon, but I think on the day he had a slight problem with the lift. Edited July 12, 2018 by 009 micro modeller

[chrisd]

Ah yes - Temple of Pfalocos (as in an anagram of foolscap). I was next to this at Expo. It was a great idea and the figure on the top line actually moved on a sort of belt to push the wagon, but I think on the day he had a slight problem with the lift.

I had lots of problems with the lift unfortunately. It was made out of old Airfix girder bridge sides and plastic strip off cuts! Precision engineering it was not! Just the act of closing up the box file twisted the structure enough to stop it running.

 

In hindsight, I wish I’d used some brass strip and used a hand turning motion rather than trying to motorise it. Still have plans to try again on a larger scale.

 

The chap with the skip (half a chap as he was cut off mid-thigh) was attached to a Delrin chain mounted on about 20 sprockets. He was a bit more successful.

 

Thanks for posting the pic. Think I’ve lost all mine.

 

Chris

[009 micro modeller]

I had lots of problems with the lift unfortunately. It was made out of old Airfix girder bridge sides and plastic strip off cuts! Precision engineering it was not! Just the act of closing up the box file twisted the structure enough to stop it running.

 

In hindsight, I wish I’d used some brass strip and used a hand turning motion rather than trying to motorise it. Still have plans to try again on a larger scale.

 

The chap with the skip (half a chap as he was cut off mid-thigh) was attached to a Delrin chain mounted on about 20 sprockets. He was a bit more successful.

 

Thanks for posting the pic. Think I’ve lost all mine.

 

Chris

Can I ask a bit more about how you made the lift? And also although I saw it at the exhibition I can't quite remember the track plan and how it is operated.

[Nearholmer]

It ain't easy to find good information about the EDLR, but if you can find a copy 'Pioneer Irrigation and Light Railways' by Mawson and Calthrop (the latter of Barsi and Leek and Manifold fame) published 1904, contains some information, including photos. I think there is a copy in the NGRS library at Apedale, and there is definitely one in my book stash.

 

This is not the same book as the one by Calthrop that was produced in facsimile by Plateway Press, and the only copy I can currently find for sale is £120 ...... which is rather a lot of money!

[chrisd]

Can I ask a bit more about how you made the lift? And also although I saw it at the exhibition I can't quite remember the track plan and how it is operated.

As far as I can remember and using your photo as a clue, it was Delrin chain (again) running up and over sprockets at the top and counter balanced using small nuts (as in nuts and bolts, not cashew). The top sprockets were turned by a complicated spiders web of shafts and gears that linked down to a motor hidden under the raised temple area on the right. Over complicated and doomed to failure. There was one hand held controller with a three way switch to power either the track coming in from a fiddle stick on left, the lift itself, or the guy pushing the skip. That guy could actually pass through the lift shaft (once the platform with skip had descended) spin around 180 degs and then wait just to the left of the shaft opening to wait for another skip to be brought up in the lift. But he had a long wait!

 

Track plan was very simple, mainly due to the width available in a box file turned onto its side. Single track at ground level on left. Single track on upper level to right. Overlapping in the middle where the lift shaft was. There was a little hatch built into the top edge of the file on the right side, so that skip loads could be exchanged, hidden by the small tin shed.

 

I remember the whole project was a fun way to drive yourself insane!

 

Chris

[009 micro modeller]

As far as I can remember and using your photo as a clue, it was Delrin chain (again) running up and over sprockets at the top and counter balanced using small nuts (as in nuts and bolts, not cashew). The top sprockets were turned by a complicated spiders web of shafts and gears that linked down to a motor hidden under the raised temple area on the right. Over complicated and doomed to failure. There was one hand held controller with a three way switch to power either the track coming in from a fiddle stick on left, the lift itself, or the guy pushing the skip. That guy could actually pass through the lift shaft (once the platform with skip had descended) spin around 180 degs and then wait just to the left of the shaft opening to wait for another skip to be brought up in the lift. But he had a long wait!

 

Track plan was very simple, mainly due to the width available in a box file turned onto its side. Single track at ground level on left. Single track on upper level to right. Overlapping in the middle where the lift shaft was. There was a little hatch built into the top edge of the file on the right side, so that skip loads could be exchanged, hidden by the small tin shed.

 

I remember the whole project was a fun way to drive yourself insane!

 

Chris

Thank you - it isn't my photo though

[EddieB]

Information on the Egyptian Delta Light Railways is indeed sparse, equally so the Faiyum Light Railway (also of 750mm gauge). 

 

I'm unfamiliar with the book Kevin mentions (and likely to remain so, given prices for surviving copies), but wonder whether it is the Faiyum Liht Railway that is described and illustrated therein, Calthrop being appointed as an engineering advisor to that system.

 

Both 750mm systems get a brief mention, loco lists and a few photos in "Middle East Railways" (Hughes).  I'm also aware that there was an official locomotive diagram book for the EDLR produced in 1919.

 

There may be magazine articles - there was comprehensive coverage of the Egyptian Government Railways' locomotives in "Locomotive Magazine" by EL Ahrons (and something, perhaps similar, in "Railway Magazine") during the first decade of the 20th Century - but I haven't located anything specific to the 750mm gauge systems.

 

There is an interesting article on sugar cane railways in Egypt on-line here: http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/34782/InTech-The_role_of_light_railway_in_sugarcane_transport_in_egypt.pdf

[Nearholmer]

Hmmm ....., may be it is Fayoum.

 

The book is packed away while I shift stuff around at home, but I have a nasty feeling that I will be none the wiser when I unpack, because there are so few images of either railway with which to compare what is in the book.

 

The book cost 40p, about the same as a copy of The Railway Modeller at the time, from a shop near the city gate in Canterbury, 40+ years ago, not £120 thankfully.

 

PS: Wikipedia knows everything (!) and proves you right:

 

Fayoum Light Railway

Calthrop was appointed to advise on engineering matters for this 750 mm (2 ft 5 1⁄2 in) gauge Egyptian light railway, construction of which began in 1898. The railway comprised seven, mostly roadside, branch lines with a total length of 97 miles (156 km). The Fayoum Light Railway served an irrigation district south of Cairo, centred on the provincial capital of Medinet-el-Fayum. Calthrop used pictures of rolling stock from the railway to illustrate a chapter he wrote for the book Pioneer Irrigation and Light Railways.[3]

Edited July 17, 2018 by Nearholmer

[fezza]

Interestingly a map in a one of the current guidebooks to Egypt shows all the Fayoum lines in situ even though they were ripped up over 60 years ago! The only line operational is the standard gauge branch to Fayoum town. Usually a good thrash behind a Henschel diesel!

[Dava]

The invaluable book 'Sentinel patent locomotoves & concrete cases' [EP Publishing 1974, originally published 1931] has some interesting photographs and details of the Egyptian Delta Light Railways order for 50 x 100hp 'Railway' type locos.

 

The working photos as below show one loco, probably a demonstrator slightly different from the production type, hauling the same three coaches. The batch of production locos are shown in various works photos in the pdf scans from the book. It is not known how long they lasted in service.

 

Sentinel EDLR 1.pdf

Sentinel EDLR 2.pdf

 

I have just discovered another book, the ILS one on vertical boiler locomotives [vol 2] with a few more photos. Vol 1 has the Sentinel workslist.

 

Egyptian State Railways was also a customer.

 

Dava

 

 

[Dava]

A couple more EDLR Sentinels from the ILS book mentioned above. The thick book format and scanner impairs the image quality. The first photo and another  dated 'about 1945' so show the locos were still running after WW2 though some were apparently converted to Diesel engines. Baguley-Drewry also built one but it was less succesful than the Sentinels.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

My father saw parts of it still working as late as c1948/9. He was a wireless operator at the embassy in Cairo from sometime after withdrawal from Palestine  until c1952.

 

Photo above looks like British soldiers either driving or posing on the loco. I think that Peter Kalla-Bishop, who wrote several books about overseas railways, may have been stationed in Egypt at that time, as were a couple of other enthusiasts.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Nearholmer

[St Enodoc]

Nothing to do with Egypt (although it is next door...) but when I visited Leptis Magna in Libya in the mid-1990s you could still see the remains of the light railway/tramway tracks used by the Italians during the excavation of the site.

[Chen Melling]

Anyone interested in the railways of Egypt - standard or narrow gauge - is welcome to contact me either through these pages or by email - museum@rail.co.il.

 

While not an expert on this subject, I have been collection information for a long time, and am more than happy to share, e.g. the attached scanned pages from the official book about the railways of Egypt, by Wiener, published in French in 1932. This PDF containes the chapter concerned with the Egyptian Delta Light Railway.

Wiener - EDLR.pdf

[Nearholmer]

That is absolutely superb, the best info I've ever seen about the EDLR.

 

Huge thanks for posting that.

[Dava]

Anyone interested in the railways of Egypt - standard or narrow gauge - is welcome to contact me either through these pages or by email - museum@rail.co.il.

 

While not an expert on this subject, I have been collection information for a long time, and am more than happy to share, e.g. the attached scanned pages from the official book about the railways of Egypt, by Wiener, published in French in 1932. This PDF containes the chapter concerned with the Egyptian Delta Light Railway.

Wiener - EDLR.pdf

Fantastique! Lirez en Francaise au sujet des petits chemins de fer égyptien! Edited December 16, 2018 by Dava