An LNWR Type 4 size J all wooden Signal Cabin

[SHMD]

Francis William Webb – 1836 to 1906

 

 

 

   Francis William Webb started his career as an apprentice at Crewe Works, in Drawing Office, under Francis Trevithick.

   Was CME for the LNWR for 32 years.

   Pioneered the use of steel for frames, engine bits and boilers in the UK.

   He recognised savings in economy of scales by using standard components in mass production.

   Had an 0-6-0 loco built in 25 and a half hours flat – no doubt benefiting from standard components and mass production.

   Aspinall, Ivatt and Gresley were trained under Webb at Crewe Works.

   Webb abandoned the 0-6-0 design 20 years before other railway companies.

   Was Vice-President of the Institution of Civil Engineers and the Institution of Mechanical Engineers.

 

 

   He was involved, as a CME would be, in many aspects of railway design, development and engineering and, although some of his compound locomotive designs were not successful, was recognised as a good locomotive superintendent.

 

..but it is his work on standardised signalling, that interests me here, in particular his LNWR Type 4 Signal Cabins.

 

 

So I am going to build an LNWR, Type 4, size J, 40 Lever Tumbler Frame, all wooden Signal Cabin - to 5” gauge.

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

I have already started work on the CAD for the Signal Cabin and producing the drawings has allowed me to change things, as I went along, as the drawings revealed that there was not enough space, or that I was missing detais, or, or, or.... the list (still) goes on and on!

The electronic control system, (to my own designs), is complete and proof tested.

This work has been detailed in a number of threads that also show the contruction tequniques that I will be using:-

 

"Tenbione" - my under construction automated 00 gauge layout.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87910-tenbione/page-1

 

"A Ground Frame for a Plank!" - a small working 5-lever ground frame.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/104582-a-ground-frame-for-a-plank/page-1

 

"Tenbione Jn. Signalbox" - the start of my Signal Cabin design and construction featuring, mainly, the electronics.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129483-tenbione-jn-signalbox/

 

 

For references I have/am using the Web (www obviously), RMweb and some Books.

 

There is an excellent thread, or two, by beast66606 on signalling including this one:-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/134940-beasts-photos-ongoing-last-update-19-july-2018/page-1

 

The three main reference books I am using are:-

"A Pictorial Record of L.N.W.R. SIGNALLING" by Richard D. Foster. 1982. SBN 86093 147  1

"LNWR PORTRAYED" by Jack Nelson. 1975. SBN 900586 45 1

"SIGNALLING ATLAS AND SIGNAL BOX DIRECTORY" by Peter Kay & Derek Coe. 2004. ISBN 1 873228 25 2

"A pictorial survey of LONDON MIDLAND SIGNALLING" by David Allen & C.J. Woolstenholmes. 1996. ISBN 0-86093-523-X

 

 

If you have any other useful info - books, websites, photos, etc - I will be very grateful.

(..but still suspect a lot of guess work will be involved!)

 

 

Kev.

 

Edit history:-

290718 - Another book added to the list.

Edited July 29, 2018 by SHMD

[SHMD]

The current cleaned up CAD drawings of front elevations of all four sides of the box.

 

The steps, landing and loo will be separate items and so are not shown in this view.

 

The rear of the cabin has windows to allow the signaller to see the road approaching the level crossing as he operates the crossings gates via the cabin gate wheel.

 

 

These cross-sections are still a work in progress but they really help high light areas that need further research.

 

Detail of the cabin's cladding and the lever position detail.

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

Paint!

 

I hate it. It hates me. It's always a disaster.

I need to learn.

So, some test pieces are required before I ruin a whole box.

 

I am using standard sizes "available" stripwood for this project. That means compromises. The Cabin's external Tongue and Groove should be just under 13.5mm. The nearest size is 10.5mm (or just under 4.7" instead of 6"). 

I glued 3 pieces together after using a Rasp to mimic the distinctive groove on the cabin's horizontal lines.

 

The rough faces were lightly sanded to see if 80years worth of use/weathering could be mimicked.

 

 

Grey undercoat was applied - to both sides...

 

...and then some old white gloss was applied to mimic 80years worth of painting over. (I'll probably need another coat.)

 

 

Do I have enough wood - not nearly enough yet!

 

 

I'll let it dry and see the results tomorrow.

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

More testing...

 

The first test piece with 2 coats of one coat!

 

A simple, quick but variable way to produce tongue-in-groove effect facias..

 

The original test piece plus another in the sash clamps and a third ready to be assembled but not clamped.

 

finished painted results.

The two left "one coat" pieces look good for inside the locking room.

The two right hand pieces look good for in the cabin, as I want a "many coats of gloss" look to it - but I will change to cream (smokers!).

(I think the outside should be brilliant white but dulled by weather - I shall try silk.

 

The same as above but a slightly different angle to try and show the surface texture.

 

 

Kev.

 

[LNWR lives on]

I might have missed the answer so if I have forgive me, I have seen this is 5 inch gauge but my question is how large will the end box be? This looks to be a very impressive entry

 

Best of Luck

 

David

Chairman LNWRs

[SHMD]

I think of it as "Dolls House" sized!

 

I'll post the overall dimensions tonight but I think it is 800mm long (not including Landing and steps).

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

Tenbione Jn. Signalbox has the following overall dimensions:-

 

800 by 325 by 643.

 

 

(Not including landing, loo, steps, drainpipes, distinctive decorative facia half way up, trunnions, chimney, window bars...)

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

Yesterday I formally entered the competition and started trying to clear find the workbench in my 'man-cave'.

What a load of junk, but I did find (A) a baseboard with laid track on (one of the Tenbione fiddle yards) and (B) that most of my stock wood for the walls is actually 11x15mm and not the 10.5x15mm that I have used to create the CAD drawings!

 

So, a redraw of the CAD work is to be done today, but I will still make the two locking room end elevation walls as they are simple and it starts the project off nicely.

 

As an aid to both the CAD work and actual construction, I have added the Timber Height Sizes & Numbers down the left hand side.

 

I'm also toying with a name change to "S.H.M.D. Jn." This might seem daft but no worse a name than the "O.A.G.B." Signal box, at Ashton Moss, where the OAGB Rly. (Joint GCR & LNWR) crossed the L&Y Manchester to Stalybridge line. (This is within 5 miles-ish of where I want to fictitiously base my box.)

 

O.A.G.B. = Oldham Ashton and Guide Bridge Rly.

S.H.M.D. = Stalybridge Hyde Mossley & Dukinfield Transport & Electricity Board.

 

 

Now where's my razor saw? I need to cut 19 off 283x11x15 mm timbers.

 

 

Kev.

 

[flyingsignalman]

I hope you don't mind me posting these photos of Bebington signal box on your thread.

They were taken by Billy Walker, a Signalman there, shortly before he went to Canning St North box in September 1959.

 

Ken Norman at the block shelf.

 

Billy Walker at the block shelf.

 

Jack Dyas at the top of the steps.

 

Billy's lad; note the block shelf doesn't extend the full length of the frame.

Another point to note is that the back boards (with lever descriptions on) didn't always run the full length of the frame either; if there were spaces left, the board had a space too. It can just be seen in one the photos I posted of Port Sunlight Sidings on Beast's thread (but shown below also).

Taken 27/1/1979.

Edited August 5, 2018 by flyingsignalman

[SHMD]

Gold, pure gold! I'm being spoiled.

How could I not mind! Look at all woodwork detail and the 'extras' you point out that I don't see.

 

I love the paintwork on the walls changing from where the levers start in the first photo behind the block instrument!

The details are brought out in good contrast and before a lot of later mods came along later.

What colour, do you think, was the darker colour on the was in the first photo?

 

I just have to (must) reproduce those lamps! Are they gas, I think so? I remember Greenfield was still lit by gas when I visited it.

The horseshoe WILL  be reproduced.

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

Well, I didn't get all the work I wanted today but I did make a jig for cutting the stripwood more accurately.

 

The Stripwood comes with quite rough ends, were you can see the results of cutting a much cleaner end with the razor saw.

 

Here is the resultant 18 timbers showing quite a good length correlation.

 

...but the top 9 timbers are 1mm wider than the bottom 9!

 

Here is 18x11mm stacked up, but wait...

 

That's not right!. The marked up 15mm by 11mm are actually 10.5mm - Doh!!!!

 

 

Kev.

 

[flyingsignalman]

The lamps in the Bebington photo are oil lit and gas at Port Sunlight Sidings.

In the first photo, above the Signalman's head is a hook on the cross member; I'm not sure what it's for but Port Sunlight Sidings had one also.

Edited August 6, 2018 by flyingsignalman

[SHMD]

Using the above jig, I finished cutting all the wood for each end of the Locking room. The jig makes repetative tasks easy, quick and without the need to measure each one whilst making them all the same.

 

(Even the saw dust is to scale! I might save that.)

 

The use of a razor saw is a must for these cuts.

 

Next task is to add the tongue&groove's to each piece.

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

Tonight I put the Tounges and Grooves into the wall and glued them together.

 

Gluing

 

One done another ready...

 

I think I will have to sand one, or both, sides smoother before I paint.

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

More done, but not as much as I had hoped.

 

The locking room door end wall carpentry was given to the apprentice (an idiot on his first day on the job) who thought that using a square was unnecessary! The rest of the time was spent trying to rescue the situation.

 

Doesn't look too bad but as soon as you start to butt things up to it then its shortcomings become apparent. 

 

The glue had already set - rock hard - but some sanding I was able to 'make it square' by creating a deliberate gap.

 

..same on the other side.

 

The finished - now square - end wall, with the top plank parallel and at the right height to the floor.

 

The plank ends are now straight up!

(My first "auto rotated" photo post - gawd I hate "smart" things!)

 

 

 

What's the easiest way to stop the annoying "auto-rotate"?

 

 

Kev.

 

 

 

[Ian Smeeton]

Use a different camera!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[MarshLane]

 

What's the easiest way to stop the annoying "auto-rotate"?

 

 

Kev.

 

 

 

I think the reality is that the image 'auto-rotates' on the phone so that it shows the right way up, but not on this and most other forums.

 

Your making great progress, despite the help of your 'apprentice'!

 

Rich

[SHMD]

I've been looking for fine "panel pins" - but without any luck.

I really wanted a selection of very small nails.

 

..and then I found the solution - Peco track pins SL14.

That's a 5pence piece which is 18mm in diameter (7/10ths of an inch).

(I guess the price has gone up since I bought these!)

 

The heads are too big but if I cut the head off, with a pair of very fine "electronics" side cutters, then they look pretty good once knocked in.

 

 

If I leave the heads on - AND don't knocked the heads flush into the wood - then the result looks like "coach bolts".

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

With my competition entry being 1:11.3 scale, this is close enough to the popular "Dolls House" scale of 1:12, not to take advantage of.

 

Thus, I have been searching a few dolls house supplies web sites...

I did find some useable stuff but steered well clear of all the doilies, frillies and the extensive range of tea sets available!

 

I was particularly pleased with a couple of pots, the very small hinges (I could not find elsewhere), and the skirting boards!

 

 

 

 

Although I agree that the chair is nowhere near “comfy” enough for the Signal Cabin!
 
 

Kev.

[SHMD]

I've looked at my results so far and they have produced in-consistant results for a lot of time and labour.

 

..so this week end I went out and bought some power tools. A combined disc and belt sander, a hand held square sander, and a mitre saw (which is too large).

These have speeded up production and, more importantly, produce consistant results - something Webb wanted to do 150 years ago!

 

 

These three photos show the build of the jig.

I'll say that glue really is strong and convenient!

 

The jig and 1" belt sander in action - just slide the work piece past at about 1"/second.

 

A close-up of the resultant chamfer.

 

The end result showing much more uniform cuts.

 

These two piles are the timbers required just for the planks surrounding the windows for the Locking room.

64 x 143mm plus 3 spares was 15 minutes (production) work. (Making the jig took a couple of hours.)

 

 

Kev.

 

[Tricky]

I've looked at my results so far and they have produced in-consistant results for a lot of time and labour.

 

..so this week end I went out and bought some power tools. A combined disc and belt sander, a hand held square sander, and a mitre saw (which is too large).

These have speeded up production and, more importantly, produce consistant results - something Webb wanted to do 150 years ago!

 

20180817_192335a.jpg

 

These three photos show the build of the jig.

20180819_190632a.jpg

20180819_190952a.jpg

20180819_190956a.jpg

I'll say that glue really is strong and convenient!

 

The jig and 1" belt sander in action - just slide the work piece past at about 1"/second.

20180819_191319a.jpg

20180819_191331a.jpg

20180819_191335a.jpg

 

A close-up of the resultant chamfer.

20180819_191422a.jpg

 

The end result showing much more uniform cuts.

20180819_192353a.jpg

 

These two piles are the timbers required just for the planks surrounding the windows for the Locking room.

64 x 143mm plus 3 spares was 15 minutes (production) work. (Making the jig took a couple of hours.)

20180819_192516a.jpg

 

 

Kev.

Great work. What you need is a router...

[SHMD]

The idiot apprentice has been at it again.

Talk about learning on the job.

 

For this panel I was aiming for a height of 209mm - not far out.

 

..more corrective action.

Although, the Lego was a good idea.

 

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

Some sense of size is begining to become apparant in these views...

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully the idiot apprentice is learning something as he goes along!

 

 

Kev.

 

[Argos]

The size really does impress.

Is there a layout to go along with this (presumably a garden line) or is the a one off construction?

 

By the way you've laid that interior laminate flooring really well..........