Wentworth Junction

[Barry O]

A few p.o. wagons have arrived for some "experimentation".

 

Couplings then...weathering....

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

An interesting article about operations on the bank in the August BackTrack, by Alan Whitehouse of 2mm scale Mini-MSW fame.

[Michael Edge]

I didn't see that one, the demise of Smiths in Barnsley has made browsing magazines a bit difficult these days. I've talked to Alan a lot about this although his direct experience is from a much later date than I want to run the layout at.

[St Enodoc]

I didn't see that one, the demise of Smiths in Barnsley has made browsing magazines a bit difficult these days. I've talked to Alan a lot about this although his direct experience is from a much later date than I want to run the layout at.

Mike, the article covers the whole period from pre-war (O4s then the Garratt) through to final closure, focusing on banking. I found it very informative.

[innocentman]

Mike, the article covers the whole period from pre-war (O4s then the Garratt) through to final closure, focusing on banking. I found it very informative.

Mike,

 

You will be please to know that Rossi's U1 has been seen and has been round Chapel under its own power to surprise of its owner 

[Barry O]

Mike,

 

You will be please to know that Rossi's U1 has been seen and has been round Chapel under its own power to surprise of its owner 

and others!

 

It is very, very clean however....

 

Baz

[innocentman]

and others!

 

It is very, very clean however....

 

Baz

I’m sure you can sort thar for him Baz

[Michael Edge]

and others!

 

It is very, very clean however....

 

Baz

 

Let me test it first! Certainly wants to be filthy, Mexborough was a good rival for Gateshead.

[Barry O]

Let me test it first! Certainly wants to be filthy, Mexborough was a good rival for Gateshead.

No problemo but the owner wants it to stay pristine..still we can wash activeweathering off afterwards

Baz

[Michael Edge]

While waiting for the baseboards to start on building WJ I've been building another loco for it. This is the ex GC S1 0-8-4T, after they were replaced by EE 350hp shunters at Wath and March the whole class was concentrated at Mexborough where they tried to find alternative work for them. Several were tried out as Worsbrough bankers and I have a photo of 69901 at Dunford Bridge (must have forgotten to drop off at West Silkstone Junction).

Starting with the frames, fixed axle at the rear where the motor will drive, 1st and 2nd axles are connected with the usual compensating beam, the third runs in a swinging arm and will be sprung. Small wire straps soldered over the beams to keep them against the frames. The motor is a Mabuchi (from Ebay - very powerful) on a High Level Loadhauler - I think about 60:1 ratio.

There are no frame spacers with this etch, it was designed to be assembled on temporary screwed (10BA) spacers in the etched holes seen here, with some of my "universal" L shape spacers where needed.

These are fitted along the frames, moving the screwed spacers (I only use two) around as I go.

Using a ruler to check that the frames are straight. There's no point in checking for twist, plate frames have very little torsional strength and can be easily straightened - or twisted out of true by the loco body once the boiler is fitted.

Motor and gearbox test fitted.

The spacers have one hole on the centre line, one used here for the bogie pivot.

The completed frame, spacer holes at each end to attach the footplate, slots for cylinder ends, motion bracket and footplate supports. The upward projections at the rear will carry the inner cab floor.

 

That's a couple of hours work, more tomorrow.

 

[iak]

There is something reassuring about big GCR engines!

Mind, GCR engines all have a certain robustness about them...

[Sandhole]

While waiting for the baseboards to start on building WJ I've been building another loco for it. This is the ex GC S1 0-8-4T, after they were replaced by EE 350hp shunters at Wath and March the whole class was concentrated at Mexborough where they tried to find alternative work for them. Several were tried out as Worsbrough bankers and I have a photo of 69901 at Dunford Bridge (must have forgotten to drop off at West Silkstone Junction).

WP_20181029_15_53_21_Pro.jpg

Starting with the frames, fixed axle at the rear where the motor will drive, 1st and 2nd axles are connected with the usual compensating beam, the third runs in a swinging arm and will be sprung. Small wire straps soldered over the beams to keep them against the frames. The motor is a Mabuchi (from Ebay - very powerful) on a High Level Loadhauler - I think about 60:1 ratio.

There are no frame spacers with this etch, it was designed to be assembled on temporary screwed (10BA) spacers in the etched holes seen here, with some of my "universal" L shape spacers where needed.

WP_20181029_16_04_35_Pro.jpg

These are fitted along the frames, moving the screwed spacers (I only use two) around as I go.

WP_20181029_16_20_38_Pro.jpg

Using a ruler to check that the frames are straight. There's no point in checking for twist, plate frames have very little torsional strength and can be easily straightened - or twisted out of true by the loco body once the boiler is fitted.

WP_20181029_16_12_18_Pro.jpg

Motor and gearbox test fitted.

WP_20181029_16_26_35_Pro.jpg

The spacers have one hole on the centre line, one used here for the bogie pivot.

WP_20181029_16_39_14_Pro.jpg

The completed frame, spacer holes at each end to attach the footplate, slots for cylinder ends, motion bracket and footplate supports. The upward projections at the rear will carry the inner cab floor.

 

That's a couple of hours work, more tomorrow.

That is going to be a Fearsome Beast!!!!

I'm looking forward to seeing this!!

Are you going to fit the booster engine on the trailing bogie? Or would it have gone in your period.

                                                                               Chris.

[Michael Edge]

No, the boosters went in 1943 and I'm working round about 1952-4 for this layout at the moment. It's a pity though, I would like to see just how much power you could get out of one of these with a motor bogie under the bunker as well - there's room for a lot of lead in this.

[Michael Edge]

Moving on with the frames the next job is to fit the cylinders.

 

Cylinder ends are etched but have to be aligned properly as they are fitted, this is the leading end with tube passed through and held with blutack over the driving axle centre. This isn't so easy to find without a fixed axle though.

 

Back end of cylinders fitted.

 

It's important to check the alignment in both planes.

 

 

Frames temporarily wheeled, tubes fitted for the piston rods and motion bracket in place (but not soldered in yet). I don't usually fit Gibson wheels at this early stage, preferring to fit them on the axles only once but these (4855L) are a very tight fit on the axles and won't be loosened by it. I need to wheel the frames to check that the compensation sits level and also to check it round the minimum radius of the layout, these spacers are quite wide, giving a width of 13.3mm over frames in 00 which doesn't leave much room for sideplay. I like to have no sideplay on the leading axle behind the slidebars and as little as possible on the trailing (driven axle in this case) one - maximum sideplay on the intermediate ones.

The footplate supports aren't on the etch although the frame slots are but they are a fairly simple shape to cut and fit - this will be done later with the footplate in place though.

 

Etched footplate components, splasher sides bend out of the footplate, angle fits in half etches at the sides. There are two vertical rows of rivets on the leading splasher/sandbox but 69901 only required one of these, the leading buffer beam is heavily riveted (at least by the layout date in the 1950s) the trailing one plain. There is a slight fault with the half etch at the leading end which needs to be filed or ground out.

 

Footplate built up and frames tacked in place with a small dab of solder on each end behind the buffer beams. After checking that the frame is central the small holes in the frames spacers are drilled out to take 10BA screws for body fixing.

 

Top view showing splasher sides folded up and nuts soldered on top, we always use steel screws and brass nuts for this job - makes accidental soldering up solid far less likely. After this the footplate supports were made and fitted between the angles but I don't seem to have a photo of this part of the job.

 

69901 was one of the three booster fitted locos, the two new build S1/3s had this from the start but this one was rebuilt to take it. The boosters were removed in 1943, having been out of use for some time but the special bogie remained. This had smaller wheels and originally flycranks and coupling rods for the booster drive, after removal the outside frames and axleboxes remained. I don't like using outside frames to carry the wheels so the etch incorporates these inner frames. The strecher didn't fit very well due to a miscalculation of the bend lines on it though - a combination of fold lines outside and thinning of the edges of the fold downs allowed it to just about fit. It does need to be central though as the pivot slot (for a 12BA screw) is etched in it. The frames are clearly marked T and L to show which way round it fits on the loco.

 

Outside frames and end stretchers added, the rivet marks were left off the etched sideframes but aren't too complicated to add.

 

 

[Michael Edge]

Upper section of frames and splashers next.

 

The splasher/sandbox sides were folded out of the footplate, fronts are also etched (not all the rivets on these are needed). The upper sections of the frames fit between these, they are etched in one piece with cutouts over the wheels, might not matter for P4 but very necessary in 00. Frames bolted in for this operation to help keep the footplate flat.

 

The splasher tops are not etched and have to be formed from sheet, curved part fitted first to be trimmed off at the top. The bar left across the footplate between 1st and 2nd drivers will form the top of the motion bracket eventually, the next one will be hidden inside the tanks.

 

Tops added and all trimmed/smoothed off, most of the second splasher is inside the tank so not much needed here.

 

The tank side etch for the booster locos is a bit more difficult, the one for the original locos is in one piece with the bunker side so is much easier to locate. For this ex booster loco the tank sides are separate so I've started by soldering the front end to the side ands set it against the second splasher. The reason for the change is visible here, at the cab end the tanks were lowered to make room for the cab side windows and at the leading end the two S1/3s had tanks which sloped down at the front for better visibility when buffering up. Two alternative tank fronts are on the etch.

The booster locos also had the trailing sandboxes lifted up which led to the fillers being above the footplate in a recess in the tank sides. The bunker front is in temporary use to set the distance between the tanks.

 

Fitting the other side, using a square to ensure they are aligned correctly, bunker front again used to set the width between tanks.

 

 

 

[Michael Edge]

The parts of the tanks inside the the cab are a separate fold up etch, these need a little modification to clear the inner cab floor.

 

The tank tops are etched in one piece, the central bar to be removed later before fitting the boiler. This needs to be cut up and formed before fitting for the S1/2 or S1/3

 

The etch was designed to produce the original S1/1, for this the tank top, sides and bunker are in one piece as shown here. For the version I am building the bunker has to be fitted separately.

 

Bunker tacked in place using the handrail holes in the footplate to get the sides at the correct distance from the tanks. I fitted the vertical handrails on the back (.4mm wire) at this point because the top end of these coincides with the bunker top.

 

Bunker front and top fitted now, the coal door is a separate etch and can be fitted either way up for open or closed.

 

Now for some detail, I don't like etched beading, it always looks too flat and it's easy to add with wire. This is 30swg soft brass wire, stretched slightly to straighten it (don't let it snap when doing this) and soldered on. Run the iron along the top to do this, the solder will run through, clean up under the wire with a scraper and sand the top smooth. The wire is left long in the cab openings where it will form the top handrail support. For absolute accuracy this type of beading is usually T shaped, it is possible to repeat the process on the inside but for most applications I don't think it's worth the effort.

 

The end of the wire is formed into a loop round the handrail (.5mm wire), filled with solder and filed smooth on the top.

 

The same process at the front of the tank for the handrail here.

 

That's all for now on the S1, back to work building an EE1 this week.

[Iain Popplewell]

 Nice work Mike. Like the round bar dodge for aligning the cylinders. When you solder on the body holding brass 10BA nuts am I correct in thinking that you use the steel screw to hold the nut in place whilst soldering and it doesn't gum up solid? I always use a cocktail stick to align the nut but usually need to ream out the nut after soldering. If your dodge works the way I think you do  it, it sounds good.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Iain Popplewell

[Guest Bri.s]

Lovely work mike

 

 

Brian

[Michael Edge]

 Nice work Mike. Like the round bar dodge for aligning the cylinders. When you solder on the body holding brass 10BA nuts am I correct in thinking that you use the steel screw to hold the nut in place whilst soldering and it doesn't gum up solid? I always use a cocktail stick to align the nut but usually need to ream out the nut after soldering. If your dodge works the way I think you do  it, it sounds good.

 

Yes, that's the reason why we put the same combination in our kits. I screw the nuts up tight, run flux round them followed by the soldering iron, very little chance of soldering the screw in at least with nuts from 14BA up to 8BA. I don't usually use any grease here although I might if the nut was being soldered to thick brass which would involve a lot more heat.

[Barry O]

It is certainly a beast. Probably far more powerful than the real things!

 

Baz

[Michael Edge]

A little bit of work on the S1 at the weekend.

I've added some detail at the front end before the boiler gets in the way. Sand fillers machined and fitted, there is some rodding on the etch but all the S1s had been converted to steam sanding so this isn't required. There are etched holes in the footplate for the original lubricators but these went as well. the centre hole is about right for one of the pipes from the new lubricator which will fit on the upstand soldered to the leading splasher. To fill holes like this put some flux on the top and bottom of the hole, then hold the iron underneath, the sodler will spread through and fill the unwanted hole. Mechanical lubricators were also added, these will sit on the brackets fitted to the frames. Small handgrabs by the steps added from .4mm wire, steps on the tank front and short lengths of 1mm angle between the tank front and the footplate. To solder these on put plenty of flux under the angle (it might need to be lightly tinned first if there isn't much solder here) and underneath the footplate. Hold the iron underneath until all the solder melts and you have a good clean joint.

[Michael Edge]

Next job is fitting the cab, again this is easier for the original version than the S1/2 or S1/3.

 

 

Etched parts for the side window cab laid out, all the window frames are fitted separately and it's easier to do this before assembly. The half etch bar across the opening in the side will be removed after it is soldered on to the tank tops. I've also fitted the back handrail and all the lamp brackets now while I can still get inside the bunker without difficulty.

 

 

There's nothing on the etch to register the position of the cab top and the turn down of the tank top makes this a bit hit and miss so I've assembled the cab top first. The ends fit in half etch rebates in the sides.

 

 

First assembly tacked to the tank tops and checked carefully to see that it is square across the loco, in the middle and at the correct length. The small tacks on the outside are easy to make and move if they are wrong, when the position is correct applying the iron from the inside will spread this solder along the joint to be cleaned up with a scraper.

 

 

Cab back fitted and bunker coal rails in place, I haven't put any detail inside the bunker, it will be well filled with weight and coal. Handbrake column is guesswork, it doesn't show in any of the photos I have so inside the frames on the left. I don't know what the inside of the cab looks like at all, presumably the backhead is the same as an O4 but what does the control for the steam reverser look like?

Roof still to be fitted, then the boiler is the next job.

[Guest Bri.s]

The S1 is coming on great Micheal,lovely work

 

 

Brian

Edited November 14, 2018 by Bri.s

[Michael Edge]

S1 assembled and parked for the moment.

 

 

Meanwhile we have a slight excess of Garratts in the fiddle yard.

 

 

Both built from the DJH kit, the nearer one by Andy Ross is powered with one motor in the hind unit, the other is one I built some years ago (with a DS10 motor in each end) which is back for minor repairs. Either of these will be available for use on Wentworth Junction.

 

 

The double motored one is parked on the banker return siding between the running lines of the fiddle yard.

 

 

No coal wagons out in the shed at the moment so all I could find as a trial train for the single motor Garratt to bank was this short parcels train with a Hornby 25 on the front. No problems round the curve into the fiddle yard.

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

I just found this thread, and it makes for fascinating reading.

 

I thought you might be interested that the GC used the spelling "Worsboro" on the signal box "Worsboro Bridge Crossing". I know this as one of the nameboards is on the wall in my model railway room, bought from Collectors Corner for the sum of £40 in 1983!

 

The Garratts are lovely models, and I never realised they had 16 spoke wheels rather than the 14 found on GC 8 coupled locos, one day I might do my DJH kit.

 

Is your S1 now available for sale as a kit/ set of parts?

 

John.