LNWR Signal Box at 1:24

[Tricky]

And a very temporary mock-up of the walls on the base.

[SHMD]

That looks really good.

(I might use some of these photos as reference for my build!)

 

 

Kev.

[Tricky]

I wouldn’t if I were you - I make it up as I go along!!

[SHMD]

I wouldn’t if I were you - I make it up as I go along!!

 

...I know the feeling...

 

 

Kev.

[Tricky]

Coming along nicely, turned a corner (no pun intended) by getting the walls in place. Internal skirtings and trims can now be fitted as well as top coats inside and out. Next up, staircase...

[Tricky]

Plus my copy of 'LNWR Portrayed' conveniently positioned in the background...!

[Gravy Train]

Hi tricky, that's the biggest box I have seen in model form, except for the gauge 3 lads, great job too, very well done with that.

Peter A L.

[Tricky]

I wonder if I might canvas opinion:

 

My thoughts are turning to the interior and in particular the 25 levers.

 

Do I:

 

a/ put 25 levers in of a reasonably representative assortment of colours - if so, what ratio of colours would be reasonable in a box of this size?

b/ make an attempt to model the exact combination of levers as put in Beeston Castle box? And if so, does anyone know what levers there were?

 

I'm yet to decide if this is an exact model of Beeston. It is so far, but I'm hedging my bets! Plus I don't know what colour levers represented signals, points, etc.

 

I suppose the same scenarios a/ and b/ above also apply to working out what instruments would have been (or likely to have been) on the shelf above the levers.

 

The obvious risk in making an exact model of Beeston is the likelihood of someone actually knowing what levers and instruments where there, so I quite like the idea of hedging my bets still. The only problem here is that I can't really put a name board on it because it won't have a name!

 

Your thoughts gratefully received and please excuse my ramblings...!

[Spitfire2865]

Hi tricky, that's the biggest box I have seen in model form, except for the gauge 3 lads, great job too, very well done with that.

Peter A L.

Someone on here is doing an LNWR Box in 5" gauge.  Of the LNWR contest entries, Im following this and that one very closely.  

[SHMD]

Lever colours are a mine field!

(You have too many blue ones and the stripy black and white ones didn't come in until....)

 

Just resign yourself to getting it wrong not getting it exactly right.

Draw the diagram, (as you need to hang this in the box anyway), and then number the signals and points etc from start of the up line and return back down the down line.

 

Here is an early attempt for my build. (Remember mine will actually work the railway so I need to get the functions all there!

(There's another 28 levers not shown here! ..and I really should tackle this job whilst I am away from my workshop.)

 

 

Kev.

[Tricky]

That’s a very useful starting point - thanks.

[Tricky]

Been working flat out on the box as I’ve realised it’s only just over a month to the closing date, with Cxxxxxxxs in between...! Externally almost finished apart from a roof for the loo, soffits and gutters. Internally, roof purlins and a small matter of some levers etc etc.

The two sides of the roof are removable so all the innards will be on show.

I’m contemplating the layout and type of levers still. I may use a layout from another prototype box of 25 levers and make up a name for it. Hopefully thus avoiding those more knowledgable than me pointing out my glaring errors!

[Tricky]

I also have a question: how would the box name have been displayed in say 1900? Style, colour etc? I’ve had a quick look in my signalling book but may have missed it.

[Tricky]

The ballast ‘ground’ is wet by the way...!!

[bgman]

I also have a question: how would the box name have been displayed in say 1900? Style, colour etc? I’ve had a quick look in my signalling book but may have missed it.

 

 

" ARFUR" ......as in Arfur Box !

 

Joking apart you've done a superb piece of modelling with this.

[beast66606]

For an LNWR box generally the up signals start at number 1 and the down signals start at the highest number, so yellow, red, red and red,red, yellow at the ends of the frames. (unless it's LNWR period when the yellow would be green).

Then, generally again, up shunts reading in the up direction (including into sidings) with the point next to them and again at the highest end, down shunts with the points a lower number than them.

Throw in a couple of spares - white levers, and maybe some spaces - gaps and don't forget the frame came in girders so there are non numbered spaces after each 18 lever chunk. (This varied, sometimes it was 16 and sometimes 12)

[wessy]

I also have a question: how would the box name have been displayed in say 1900? Style, colour etc? I’ve had a quick look in my signalling book but may have missed it.

 

Tricky,

There are a couple of brief references to the painting in Foster's signalling book (they are in the index) and there is also a reference in the LNWR liveries book. The letters for the name were screwed on to the front of the box on the board just above the brickwork, never on the end in LNW days. They were painted white on a red background panel which was specified as the same colour as signals. From about 1900, the red panel had semi-circular ends.

[beast66606]

I also have a question: how would the box name have been displayed in say 1900? Style, colour etc? I’ve had a quick look in my signalling book but may have missed it.

 

DAS000799

Edge Hill

21/03/1981 (Wednesday)

Picton Road Junction signal box - impression left by LNWR Edge Hill No.16 letters

DAS000799 by Dave Skipsey, on Flickr

 

 

[wessy]

I wonder if I might canvas opinion:

 

My thoughts are turning to the interior and in particular the 25 levers.

 

Do I:

 

a/ put 25 levers in of a reasonably representative assortment of colours - if so, what ratio of colours would be reasonable in a box of this size?

b/ make an attempt to model the exact combination of levers as put in Beeston Castle box? And if so, does anyone know what levers there were?

 

I'm yet to decide if this is an exact model of Beeston. It is so far, but I'm hedging my bets! Plus I don't know what colour levers represented signals, points, etc.

 

I suppose the same scenarios a/ and b/ above also apply to working out what instruments would have been (or likely to have been) on the shelf above the levers.

 

The obvious risk in making an exact model of Beeston is the likelihood of someone actually knowing what levers and instruments where there, so I quite like the idea of hedging my bets still. The only problem here is that I can't really put a name board on it because it won't have a name!

 

Your thoughts gratefully received and please excuse my ramblings...!

 

Although the station was known as Beeston Castle and Tarporley, the box, certainly in LNWR days , was just 'Beeston Castle' as recorded in the list of block posts in the 1909 working timetable. The lever frame had 25 levers. According to the Chester - Crewe section of the John Swift track plans produced by the Signalling Record Society, they were  allocated as follows in BR days, and probably in earlier periods as well. Working (and numbered) from the left they were: (The LNW painting specification for 1881 is in brackets)

1 distant (green)

3 stop signals (red)

1 detonator placer (not specified , possibly top blue, bottom black)

1 spare (not specified)

2 stop signals (red)

6 points (black)

2 stop signals (red)

1 point (black)

1 signal (red)

2 points (black)

1 signal (red)

1 detonator placer (see above)

2 signals (red)

1 distant (green).

[Tricky]

Tricky,

There are a couple of brief references to the painting in Foster's signalling book (they are in the index) and there is also a reference in the LNWR liveries book. The letters for the name were screwed on to the front of the box on the board just above the brickwork, never on the end in LNW days. They were painted white on a red background panel which was specified as the same colour as signals. From about 1900, the red panel had semi-circular ends.

Would you happen to have dimension of the board and letters?

[beast66606]

Although the station was known as Beeston Castle and Tarporley, the box, certainly in LNWR days , was just 'Beeston Castle' as recorded in the list of block posts in the 1909 working timetable. The lever frame had 25 levers. According to the Chester - Crewe section of the John Swift track plans produced by the Signalling Record Society, they were  allocated as follows in BR days, and probably in earlier periods as well. Working (and numbered) from the left they were: (The LNW painting specification for 1881 is in brackets)

1 distant (green)

3 stop signals (red)

1 detonator placer (not specified , possibly top blue, bottom black)

1 spare (not specified)

2 stop signals (red)

6 points (black)

2 stop signals (red)

1 point (black)

1 signal (red)

2 points (black)

1 signal (red)

1 detonator placer (see above)

2 signals (red)

1 distant (green).

 

Beeston was replaced in 1915 by an LNWR Type 5 with a 26 lever tappet frame.

The stop signals inside the running signals (first 4 and last 3) would be ground signals (except No.7 which is a main to loop arm), spare would be white and detonators possibly black/white chevrons pointing up or down. There should be a facing point lock (No.15) for the main to loop points.

[wessy]

Would you happen to have dimension of the board and letters?

 

Here is a photo of an LNWR box with the name shown. There was no separate nameboard as the letters were screwed on to the timber at the front of the box. As for the size, it does not seem to have survived but can be estimated from the photo and the ghost image on the Edge Hill photo.

[wessy]

Beeston was replaced in 1915 by an LNWR Type 5 with a 26 lever tappet frame.

The stop signals inside the running signals (first 4 and last 3) would be ground signals (except No.7 which is a main to loop arm), spare would be white and detonators possibly black/white chevrons pointing up or down. There should be a facing point lock (No.15) for the main to loop points.

 

So if the Type 5 box was opened in 1915, the painting of the King in the box should be George V!

I believe that the chevron painting on levers was an LMS innovation in the 1930s and certainly the other 'odd' levers such as gate locks and scotch block levers were painted blue /black in the LNWR spec. The track plan I have for Beeston shows lever 15 as a shunt from loop to up main, and doesn't show any facing points at all. So perhaps all in all, it would be best to have the model as another place. It doesn't have to be anonymous - 'Nelson Street' could make a reference to the source of the inspiration!

[Tricky]

Thanks for all your replies, most helpful. In summary what I think I’m going to do is make up a track plan and signalling diagram based on another box. My box whilst based on Beeston is going to be called ‘Monks Gate No 1’ and is depicted just after the turn of the last century complete with portrait of the newly crowned Edward VII. I love the last photo posted of Hademore Crossing and will base the lettering on that.

[Tricky]

Very nearly there, I’ve got the name letters to put on the side and a couple of lamps to make and hang. Then I think that’s about it. Although I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind there’s something missing...?