LMS Push-Pull Coach Pipe and Jumper Colours

[TheSignalEngineer]

I am finishing off a couple of LMS Push-Pull conversions but have come up against a brick wall in trying to find out some paint colours.

 

I only have black and white pictures of the coaches involved, but the pipes for the push-pull equipment and RCH Jumpers for the Engine Bell are painted in a different colour to anything else. They are a light colour but don't appear to be white. I have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that they were yellow but can't find any reference to this. Any ideas?

 

Any help gratefully received.

 

 

[Jub45565]

The only colour photo I've seen without a loco in the way is here, and very unhelpful.

 

http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/images/pf-time-capsules/3507.jpg

 

There are a few colour photos of fitted locos,which I'd agree suggest pale yellow (straw? It's s bit light, but won't be white as that would clash with through piped, unless staff were expected to know locos and coaching stock would be unlikely to have a through pipe - they knew what they were working with, just clarifying which pipe was which?).

 

Photos I've looked at are in:

- Midland lines in colour, Chris Gammell

- The Last decade of British steam, Gavin Morrison (filthy loco pipes!)

- London Midland region steam finale, Michael Welch

 

Clearest photo, p18:

- British railways in colour, volume 1: the London Midland region, Alan Earnshaw & Kevin Derrick

 

That said, there are several photos including of stock in:

- The changing railway scene: London Midland Region, Derek Huntress.

 

These seem to suggest very pale colours,and the cleanest example has a red pipe on the train brake vac. Jumpers are red on this example, though in most photos they are just dirty...

 

 

HTH,

[TheSignalEngineer]

Thanks for that. The colour picture was the only one I had seen with the pipes clearly in view. 

I had seen B/W pictures on the net of M24460M which looks as if it has a red vac pipe. The PP pipe doesn't look the same shade as the white lettering on the coach end so could be yellow. The ends of the jumpers look a similar shade to the vac pipe.

 

In the case of M24425M the vac pipe stands out as a different colour to the black at the end. Again the Engine Bell jumpers look the same shade as the vac pipe, and the PP pipe looks very pale.

[jim.snowdon]

Two thoughts on the matter -

 

- were the fittings on the two vacuum pipes opposite handed? From a technical perspective, it is an obvious thing to do as it prevents cross coupling and is not difficult to achieve. If that was the case, colour becomes incidental.

 

- the reinforced rubber hose used for vacuum pipes doesn't stay black once it is out in the weather, which will complicate trying to guess the colour from black and white photographs.

 

Jim

[TheSignalEngineer]

Two thoughts on the matter -

 

- were the fittings on the two vacuum pipes opposite handed? From a technical perspective, it is an obvious thing to do as it prevents cross coupling and is not difficult to achieve. If that was the case, colour becomes incidental.

 

- the reinforced rubber hose used for vacuum pipes doesn't stay black once it is out in the weather, which will complicate trying to guess the colour from black and white photographs.

 

Jim

The hoses were both black, but in late BR days at least upright standpipes were different colours.