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Modern Traction Kits


andyman7
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As a youth MTK kits held out the promise of lots of exotic diesel and electric locos and multiple units unavailable elsewhere, but unlike Airfix kits prices were more expensive than RTR and you needed to buy extras such as motor so I wasn't able to afford them.

 

Later on I started coming across various MTK efforts and realised just how basic the kits were. Ironically though, their very crudeness I actually find quite appealing as they fit very well within the make do/mend/bodge approach required in the past of the 'average' model railway person who had progressed beyond the limited confines of RTR. This species has been rendered almost extinct by the the array and quality of off-the-shelf models of the last 20 years that mean the kind of Blue Peter efforts that many of us struggled with in the past are now confined to the exotic outer limits of the hobby.

 

My interest was rekindled recently by the acquisition of a Class 456 EMU that had been assembled using at least some MTK bits - although the chassis was not MTK. This is currently undergoing rebuilding into a passable model that will be a fraction of the cost of the Bratchell Models version. However, further searching brought me this week - for £16 + postage - a built up but partly in bits MTK GWR Railcar. This is pure MTK - kit, bogies, chassis and mechanism, with the original box and paperwork. The thing is it has been rather beautifully made, the finish and lining are a super period job. So I've decided to start a thread here in the 'collectables' column to see if anyone else has anything to share about these models.

 

Anyhow, after sticking all the detached bits back on, here is the Railcar:

 

post-549-0-73751000-1545520925_thumb.jpg

Edited by andyman7
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Some MTK kits were unbuildable. The 3mm scale Mk1 coaches with cast parts ripped off from Kitmaster plastic mouldings and a narrow gauge range branded 'El Crappo' come to mind.

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I know he did a lot of different things, but I didn't know he did any Narrow gauge, other than the G scale American stuff he did.

 

Any details on this ?

 

Some of them are still available through the current owners of MTK:

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/nnk-mtk-narrow-gauge

 

Note the use of the word 'style' in all of the descriptions....

 

(I get the impression that Phoenix have a big pile of MTK moulds, from which they occasionally pick a few at random and make some castings). 

Edited by pete_mcfarlane
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These were made by Colin Massingham (RIP) who I knew quite well who was quite a jovial character. A lot were done at his house or shed in the garden and I went to his house a couple of times. When I was making some models for BR in the 80's I provided Colin with some drawings for him to produce cast ends or other parts.

 

Yes, they were quite basic but at the time gave a lot of different options, and sometimes parts did not always fit altbough what he did for me was fine.

 

Hi Ell Crappo kits were 0 gauge and he used to put on the box lid "There is no guarantee this kit resembles the prototype" or words to that effect. I never had any kits as such only specials he made for me but heard both positive and negative comments about them. They cannot have been too bad as he was still making kits until his untimely death.

 

I have no idea about 3mm, American or narrow gauge products of his.

 

I certainly miss him as a friend.

 

Garry

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Never tried one, heard mixed reports about them. Similar to reports about K's. I found K's doable and with more experience than I had at the time I'd find them a doddle. It's a pity that such things aren't widely available these days, although Finecast are bringing back a number of the kits which ended up under the Nu-cast banner. Overall K's were more complete that I believe MTK were.

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I have had one success with an MTK Bulleid diesel, although it was labelled as 10203, the side grille details are wrong and better suit 10201/2. This one had etched brass body shell with white metal end castings and cab roofs. The latter took an awful lot of filling and filing to get them to blend in, but I got there in the end. The chassis is now what lets it down (not MTK's fault), with a drastically pared down Mainline Peak chassis fitted.

I also have an MTK Bulleid 4 SUB (class 405), but that never progressed much beyond the aluminium body shells being painted.

As for K's, I was able to build quite respectable bodies and tenders, but I could never get their motors to run properly or the chassis to build into anything runnable. The Bulleid Q1 0-6-0 went through several attempts to get it running, even to fitting a tender drive, before I tried again with Markits' wheels, and a decent motor and gears with a two-stage Comet gearbox. It now runs well and can almost pull the side out of a house. I have not converted it to DCC though, as that might be tempting fate with a white metal body and not much spare space inside! The less said about my attempts with the Lord Nelson and the Merchant Navy, the better! The LN still doesn't run properly, and the MN is on a Hornby Flying Scotsman chassis of uncertain vintage.

26486942889_e1e7ab6df9_b.jpg
Bulleid 10203 MTK kit - 2 cropped by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr
 

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I have no direct experience of MTK kits so I have nothing to add on these, but as Keysers have been brought in....

 

K's kits were a bit hit or miss. The wagons and coaches were basic (no floors!), but I have most of them (4mm) running, if not completed. The locomotives were expensive, so I only have a few, bought secondhand . All are in various states of 'part assembled'. I jabe a couple of their tender drives. One runs beautifully and the other is a bit stiff, but probably will improve with running in. My 44xx has a Mk I motor (as used in the tender drive), but this lacks a worm, which is a problem as the chassis has the first type wheels firmly fitted to their axles. (I have five of the later plastic type for her.) A broken connecting rod does not help! Somewhere I have an H2PM which seens to run OK, but has never actually powered anything, at least while in my possession. Seeing its rather plasticky construction, it will probably stay that way.

 

Wills kits were rather better but even more expensive. (Must finish that 94xx! )

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I forgot to mention, the K's Merchant Navy wheels were absolutely useless as most of them were not even concentric. The tender wheels were so far out they would have been better on a clown car.

I've heard that too - and in the context of the main forum ths would be A Bad Thing. But for the purposes of vintage/collectable, it represents A Challenge  :sungum:

I've got a part built Kitmaster Battle of Britain with the Arby 'Perfecta' motorising kit (utilising metal 'tyres') for the plastic wheels and the original plastic valve gear). I'm going to give it a go one day...... 

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I've heard that too - and in the context of the main forum ths would be A Bad Thing. But for the purposes of vintage/collectable, it represents A Challenge  :sungum:

I've got a part built Kitmaster Battle of Britain with the Arby 'Perfecta' motorising kit (utilising metal 'tyres') for the plastic wheels and the original plastic valve gear). I'm going to give it a go one day...... 

I successfully motorised an Airfix (ex-Kitmaster) Battle of Britain using a Triang Princess chassis with Triang Bulleid wheels installed. I also still own a Merchant Navy made from two Airfix BoB bodies, a Wrenn/Hornby Dublo tender with scratchbuilt brass sides and a Wrenn/HD West Country loco chassis with the valve gear cut down (that's almost sacrilege except I didn't do the cutting down myself!).

 

Sorry if this is taking us away from the MTK topic a bit.

 

24460610898_68ae69817f_b.jpg

Merchant Navy 35015 Blue - 1 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr

 

Edited by SRman
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As a youth MTK kits held out the promise of lots of exotic diesel and electric locos and multiple units unavailable elsewhere, but unlike Airfix kits prices were more expensive than RTR and you needed to buy extras such as motor so I wasn't able to afford them.

 

Later on I started coming across various MTK efforts and realised just how basic the kits were. Ironically though, their very crudeness I actually find quite appealing as they fit very well within the make do/mend/bodge approach required in the past of the 'average' model railway person who had progressed beyond the limited confines of RTR. This species has been rendered almost extinct by the the array and quality of off-the-shelf models of the last 20 years that mean the kind of Blue Peter efforts that many of us struggled with in the past are now confined to the exotic outer limits of the hobby.

 

My interest was rekindled recently by the acquisition of a Class 456 EMU that had been assembled using at least some MTK bits - although the chassis was not MTK. This is currently undergoing rebuilding into a passable model that will be a fraction of the cost of the Bratchell Models version. However, further searching brought me this week - for £16 + postage - a built up but partly in bits MTK GWR Railcar. This is pure MTK - kit, bogies, chassis and mechanism, with the original box and paperwork. The thing is it has been rather beautifully made, the finish and lining are a super period job. So I've decided to start a thread here in the 'collectables' column to see if anyone else has anything to share about these models.

 

Anyhow, after sticking all the detached bits back on, here is the Railcar:

 

attachicon.gifIMG_20181222_215854a.jpg

 

  

Saw this on eBay but have too many projects on the go. If like either the EMU's or cast loco bodies can be built after a fashion, doubts on them being accurate and the motor bogies fit for the bin only. Did but an AEC railcar from Alistair (NNK) before his death and did buy some vac formed DMU/EMU seats years ago from W&H  

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Like others I have been drawn to MTK kits, probably because they are so awful, though I bought a static professionally made SR (class 73 ?)with a lot of added extra detail. Many years ago (30+ years ago) I built a few when my modelling skill were still at the very basic level, I have two or 3 DMU's which run poorly as they tend to waddle along and about the same in diesels, but struggled to make working chassis for the diesels 

 

At that time I became interested in railcars, initially fostered by the Airfix model, I built one on a Harrow Models chassis and a second on a scratch built unit (not worthy of being called a chassis). Then I think from either W&H or Puffers I got a Waggon und Maschinbau railcar

 

post-1131-0-04593500-1545734791.jpeg

 

Built as per instructions (still waiting for instructions) which on reflection I would not now follow

 

post-1131-0-28133300-1545734799.jpeg

 

Chassis built from a sheet of Paxoline PCB, etched brass W irons, Romford wheels & gears and a DS10. Surprisingly it actually ran fine

 

post-1131-0-51857800-1545734809.jpeg

 

Interior used the vac formed seats I referred to earlier 

 

post-1131-0-43272000-1545734833.jpeg

 

4 types brought from somewhere

 

post-1131-0-30625700-1545734823.jpeg

 

Must build this Bristol railbus, a No Nonsense Kit version (now available from Phoenix paints) brought from Alistair before he died. Plan to use a High Level kits Pacemaker chassis and follow Alistair's recommendation for roof construction. May even P4 it

 

I also have both a Warship and Western diesels to build, (fond memories of standing on platforms at Paddington) so relish the challenge. Also have a DC kits class 80 for a similar reason as I watched the electrification of the WCML

 

And back on the railcar theme, I finally bought an Anbrico AC cars railbus made with an H0 rtr chassis but missing all the running gear

 

The purists will look on in horror, but then I find etched kits not much fun to make, and if you buy a badly designed etched kit they are far more difficult to build

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Waiting for dinner I dug out a couple of kits

 

post-1131-0-60301200-1545739740.jpeg

 

The unmistakable view when opening a MTK kit, this one being the Western

 

post-1131-0-32740200-1545739772.jpeg

 

Quality control a bit amiss, excess flash and misshaped castings 

 

post-1131-0-22543700-1545739781.jpeg

 

The Warship started off even worse (look at the original ends, thankfully new ones enclosed (perhaps from Alistair from the look of the quality) I guess to most the detail kit is worth more than the loco kit

 

But with a decent chassis and perhaps a few replacement bits, the power will be amazing, for a start the High Level Long Rider chassis could be used   http://173.254.28.51/~highlev3/chris/Pages/longriderpage.html

 

The question being, will these kits remain unbuilt this time next year. Perhaps this years RMweb challange should be "build one of those awful badly designed kits"

OR "silk purse from a sours ear challenge"

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Having been in the cast kits business form 1969 to about 1981 selling the GS Models brand bus kits, I got to meet with MTK many times.

 

At one stage I was planning to do 1938 tube stock either etched brass or pressed aluminium. someone in north London said they could do the aluminium stampings for the body, I paid them a deposit and the goods never materialised. Debt collectors retrieved my deposit, then Colin Massingham revealed he'd started on etched brass tube stock. wonderful I thought...until I saw them. He obviously didn't possess a straight edge to draw the artwork, the roof rivet detail was etched INTO the roof and so on. Quite how he expected to form the body shape is beyond me. I think I has about 200 etches from him which sat around for years before being consigned to the scrap metal merchant, they really were that bad.

 

I had a few of his diesel loco kits, a Peak and a 24 or 25. Both so heavy the motors he provided weren't powerful enough to move the loco along, let alone pull a train. I did manage to get a couple of the DMU kits nearly finished and running, eventually using Lima DMU bogies. I may still have some ends kicking around. The Cravens parcel unit made into a decent model. Somewhere around there's a Leyland Railbus with etched sided and cast ends waiting to be made if ever I feel like it.

 

Colin and his partner in the business had some good ideas and obviously the finance to produce these models, but lacked the expertise to make then into buildable kits.

 

As for Ks kits, they varied. I've got a couple of Black 5s with etched valve gear, one has a Portescap mechanism, the other a Triang X04. both are unfinished and lack some details which have been lost over the years. I've done a few other Ks products which were usually ok if you didn't use their motors and wheels. Incidentally, Ks done the moulds and mouldings for my VGA kit which came out in about 1985. I don't know where the moulds are now since Ks were taken over, but I have the receipt for them saying they are mine.

Edited by roythebus
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Many people seem cautious about whitemetal parts, waiting for 2 part glue to set without disturbing the joint seems or issue and the expectation that that will fit together like an Airfix kit is another. Over the years by re-assembling badly built kits has taught me both how to solder these things and rework castings, the second thing is badly designed chassis, which probably has caused the most disappointments

 

I was given a K's GNR Atlantic (well a set of bits) which looked like it had been rebuilt several times with some parts having been badly adapted. Well I had no instructions, nor a plan and did not know the prototype. The body was a labour of love, had to be soldered together then liberal use of filler to repair what had been done before. Had awful trouble with the chassis as the cylinders never fitted the chassis, until I found they were designed to fit the body !!

 

Some kits are a pleasure to build, these basically are either simple prototypes or modern / reworked kits. Chassis are still a bugbear for some, trouble is at one time kits were cheap(ish) to obtain, now an expensive item once you have bought wheels, motor and gearbox

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Getting back to MTK, they did dabble in steam outline, I built a couple of BR standard 4 moguls , amongst the first of my soldered white-metal construction 30 odd years ago, but unfortunately sold them on about 20 years ago, and didn't take any pics of them. They weren't bad for their time.

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MTK did once do a very neat range of N gauge* coach and DMU kits. Sure the castings weren't great, but the basic plastic shell with one-piece bogies was good and the etchings, done in about 5 thou." brass were also rather neat. Apart from the castings the only real let-down were the wheels (two parts to push together to make a hopeless wheelset) and the couplings. These were a bit like the old Lone Star ones, though incompatible with them, of course. I replaced the wheels with Peco ones, just slight trimming of the pin-points needed while fitting a recovered Lima coupling pocket and coupling at one end and a simple hole that went with the simple wire ones I used on my other Farish N gauge coaches. The ends were a bit flat so I razor sawed from the back either side of the gangway and bent them to more realistic angles. Another refinement was to use Ronseal dark oak varnish on the inside of the windows to represent the 'Spectrafloat' tinted glazing on the saloon area, white paint on the toilets, but leaving the end door windows clear. Paint was Humbrol Authentic Enamels, air brushed with a simple, single action air brush, the lining applied after with a bow pen, the roof and underframe brush painted.

 

post-1877-0-55426300-1545842798_thumb.jpg

 

The range was later sold to Fleetline and eventually passed to B.H.Enterprises. Later MTK did some rather cruder conversion sides for Farish coaches, but in 10 thou." brass.

 

* like many so-called N Gauge kits of the period they actually scale out as 2mm scale 1:152 instead of 1:148.

Edited by BernardTPM
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have feeling that have a few N gauge bits in the moulds and I know that have few OO bits as well. Got a few odds and ends of gauge 1 as well.

I liked the idea for the O gauge having resin boilers. Discovered the masters were made from wood and for the big white metal parts were made from nickel silver sheet and paxolin backed with the odd bit of filler.

 

Michael

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Colin's efforts to stimulate the 'modern image' interest in the 1970s were to be welcomed. At the time, there was a straight choice of Hornby 08, 31, 35, 37 and 47 and Met-Cam DMU; Wrenn/ HD 08, 20 and a crude effort at a Deltic or the scarce Trix Hydraulics and 124 DMU. Nothing much else.

 

Colin perhaps tried to do to too much, a range which had something for everyone, and across three or four scales in the early years. Whilst the quality was variable, it did open the gates to the world of the contemporary scene with a huge range of locos, units and wagons that were representative of what was happening on the real railway at that time. Of course Airfix, Mainline and Lima were in the wings and Hornby upped their game to match, but without the stimulus Colin gave to the diesel and electric market, would they have paid as much attention to it at a time when most were still mourning the passing of steam. It should also be noted that Palitoy used MTK kits for the promotional models of their forthcoming peak so they must have been of some merit.

 

Perfection they most certainly weren't but MTK kits were buildable into something representative of the modern scene, at least equal to and perhaps more so than some of the proprietary items of the day. We have much to thank Colin for his efforts and for that, he deserves a place in the model railway hall of fame.

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I don't know if I was lucky living close to Puffers in Kenton and working near W&H in the late 70's but these were interesting times and there were many companies producing kits, As it happens I am better placed to build a working model from both the Cast and DMU kits now, then I would try and use the mechanisms sold by the company. Now there are both RTR and decent kit alternatives available, plus with the whitemetal kits I would solder them. However Keyser at the same time dabbled with plastic extrusion which also mainly failed

 

However producing a large range is not a good answer to either bad design or poor quality control. The instructions could have been better, but that could also be said about K's, Wills, GEM and a few other companies. Sadly too many prospective modeller makers failed early by attempting to build kits of this era due too either kits being difficult to build either through their complexity or bad design, that's why there are so many old un and part built kits available. I do agree though the amount of different prototypes was mind boggling, 

 

I recently looked at Worsley Works range which is very impressive in its numbers and very wide range of both prototypes covered and scales. However the quality I have found to be excellent, they clearly sold as scratch building aids, plus there now seems to be a decent range of both RTR and kit mechanisms and additional parts (castings etc) readily available on line. The surviving unbuilt MTK kits I have will be build as Scratch aids, where better items are available elsewhere I will use them, whilst trying to preserve the integrity of a 70's kit 

Edited by hayfield
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Living/working near to them would be lucky, but expensive!  :)

 

The D600 kit looks like it could be built into something reasonable, but without actually trying I wouldn't know for sure....

Edited by Il Grifone
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