TrainController UK price hike

[Andymsa]

On 24/05/2019 at 21:35, PeterCB said:

I have raised illegal discriminatory pricing with my local MP, what Feiwald is doing is illegal under EU law 

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm

 

My MP has writen back to me, this is what he wrote

 

 

Thank you for your recent email regarding the single market and member states charging different prices.

I have raised your case with the Minister at HM Treasury raising your query and asking for his response.

As soon as I have a reply I will let you know.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

I have also contacted The European Consumers Council 3 times and no reply. they appear to be useless.

 

https://www.ukecc.net

 

As soon as I find out more Ill let you know, I wouldn't purchase anything from this company, its now a matter of principle for me.

 

His practices have been previously reported to the EECc. On that occasion after there intervention he had to adjust his prices. He can't refuse to sell to the UK due to any actions taken by the EECC as again this would be discriminatory.

 

good move involving your MP

Edited May 27, 2019 by Andymsa

[NFWEM57]

So, I was looking to buy a Train Controller software but it would seem that some of our German friends are a bit bitter and twisted about Brexit and the fact that Germany now has to pay an extra 6Bn Euros to cover us pulling out of paying 40% of the EU budget.  I note that the USA, UK and  a few other countries are targeted for price hikes, the UK, a massive one.  Train Controller Silver is $420 in Ireland, $474 in USA, $549 in Lichtenstein and a whopping $639 in the UK; and that is before VAT and import duty which brings it up to $831.  Why would you bother now given that the apparent discrimination by Freiwald Software would probably extend to any form of support or future upgrades.  Utterly bizarre behaviour, but you can't teach pork can you..!

 

So, with Train Controller a non starter for many reasons, is their a viable alternative?  I have been seriously looking at iTrains, which has a UK distributor and does seem to be fairly priced for the UK market, but it is another EU product and, given the train controller issue, there is always the risk that something similar happens in the future.  Are there any other candidate products anybody has experience of?

Edited December 11, 2021 by NFWEM57
typo

[WIMorrison]

There is no danger that iTrain will stop becoming available in the UK and the author is fully committed to supporting his UK customers. He is also significantly younger than the Train Controller author.

 

iTrain is a fully featured product that has been developed by a railway modeller for railway modellers and is platform independent which means that it doesn’t suffer from

the limitations that developing in a very old Windows environment. The licensing scheme is also not restrictive for the modeller.

 

I can recommend it without hesitation.

[NFWEM57]

25 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

There is no danger that iTrain will stop becoming available in the UK and the author is fully committed to supporting his UK customers. He is also significantly younger than the Train Controller author.

 

iTrain is a fully featured product that has been developed by a railway modeller for railway modellers and is platform independent which means that it doesn’t suffer from

the limitations that developing in a very old Windows environment. The licensing scheme is also not restrictive for the modeller.

 

I can recommend it without hesitation.

Thank you for your response.

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, NFWEM57 said:

Thank you for your response.

talk about hand your business to your competitors, unfortunately his history is littered with odd behaviour. Between both programs at a basic level there is not much between them, as with any software there are good and minus points to both programs. As with niche programs they tend to be developed by one man bands and this is the Achilles heal of them, as Iain says the developer is much younger than the TC developer. For some time I have been concerned with the long term future of TC, Itrain is a much younger product compared to TC but does appear to be coming on in development where as TC has some more advanced features compared to I Train but there is hardly any development of TC these days, but I’m sure ITrain will get there In its development and to be honest only advanced users would use these features in TC in any case, so ITrain for an average user will be more than adequate if you don’t want the advanced features of TC. Another factor is screen resolution TC struggles with 4K screens where ITrain is ok. I have both programs and still learning ITrain so can’t really compare them together as I’m not experienced enough with ITrain but if I was starting out taking into all the factors involved especially price ITrain would be my route.

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

  I note that the USA, UK and  a few other countries are targeted for price hikes, the UK, a massive one. 

He previously stated he would not sell TC in any US state that voted Trump.

Utterly bizarre as you penalise non-Trump supporters in those states, whilst still selling to Trumpites residing in Democrat voting states.

His logic totally baffles me.

 

As others have said, Train Controller, although the Bees Knees in the Gold version is not IMHO worth his "Brexit Premium" now charged.

He claims it is because of the excessive costs now incurred, that is total bullsh*t as other German companies are still selling to the UK with not unduly large price adjustments.

 

I have Gold 9, won't be upgrading unless there is a free or very low cost upgrade and would not buy it as a newcomer.

I think his UK customer base will dwindle to next to nothing in the long term.

 

Stick to iTrain

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by melmerby

[Michael Hodgson]

7 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

So, I was looking to buy a Train Controller software but it would seem that some of our German friends are a bit bitter and twisted about Brexit and the fact that Germany now has to pay an extra 6Bn Euros to cover us pulling out of paying 40% of the EU budget.  I note that the USA, UK and  a few other countries are targeted for price hikes, the UK, a massive one.  Train Controller Silver is $420 in Ireland, $474 in USA, $549 in Lichtenstein and a whopping $639 in the UK; and that is before VAT and import duty which brings it up to $831.  Why would you bother now given that the apparent discrimination by Freiwald Software would probably extend to any form of support or future upgrades.  Utterly bizarre behaviour, but you can't teach pork can you..!

When you're dealing with one-man bands, the character of the individual is critical.

 

If you encounter that sort of attitude on the part of a supplier, even if you believed his product was better, what level of support you could you expect from him should you encounter problems, especially if your knowledge of his language is limited?  It doesn't matter whether the European court rules for or against his discriminatory pricing policy forcing him to change his pricing - I see the whole situation as being one which tells me to walk away from his product offerings. 

 

By contrast, I have found Xander Berkhout, the author of iTrain to be very helpful and constructive in his attitude.  Like so many educated Dutchmen his English is impeccable, and it is obvious from his website that he also provides prompt technical support in several other European languages.

[Andymsa]

I guess the real issue for TC is what happens if something health wise happens to the developer, when the issue of long term viability was put to him he stated that the software would have its licence element removed. But as life always shows us the unexpected can happen, if the worst was to happen to the developer before any steps in this direction could be taken and the license dongle went wrong suddenly you have a very useless piece of software. This is what really worries me for the long term with TC. Now if the same was to happen with ITrain ok there be no more development but you would still have a viable program to use. So cost issues aside would I upgrade again, unless it was some super dooper feature and even then I would have to consider carefully, then no is probably the answer and I suspect many TC user would be the same. To transition from TC to ITrain is no mean feat because of how each program implements each specific feature. So I took the decision to buy ITrain as a bit of insurance I guess, ok it’s probably overkill but if the worst happens at least I will have a fully working layout still with some minor tweaking or lots of major design work to be undertaken.

[Alan Kettlewell]

Cheaper to move to Bali, Fiji or Outer Mongolia and buy it (Gold) for €699 there.  The man is clearly deranged.

After 15+ years of investment in RR&Co products and every upgrade, I'll certainly be looking elsewhere whenever the necessity arises.  

Cheers ... Alan

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

He previously stated he would not sell TC in any US state that voted Trump.

Utterly bizarre as you penalise non-Trump supporters in those states, whilst still selling to Trumpites residing in Democrat voting states.

His logic totally baffles me.

 

 

 

The man is a bigot….simple as, best avoided.

[NFWEM57]

Many thanks for the responses, most helpful.  So, in the new year I will take the plunge and purchase a version.  My planned EM layout, currently in the early design stage, has around 50 turnouts and approx semaphore 80 signals in the 2 scenic sections with another 48 points in the fiddle yard area.  Timetable automated running in one scenic section and mixed control in the other scenic section with block detection and signal / point control using ESU modules, so I guess we are looking at the standard or plus addition. 

 

I will follow the advice on the website and, for once, read the manual fully and, when purchased, use the sample layout. 

 

Once again, many thanks.

 

Patrick

[WIMorrison]

I would apply for the trial licence and get 2 months of free experience and you can decide which version to buy after that.

 

the good thing is that there is no premium to upgrade versions and all you do is pay the licence difference.