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All new RTR Class 91 and Mark 4 carriages


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6 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Where is this? 

 

Just a request for more information .  How much , what’s on offer  and when are we expecting it to arrive ?  Then I’ll make a decision on it .

 

11 minutes ago, Philou said:

Hello Cavalex,

 

Unless I missed it above, is there an anticipated delivery date? Having just committed myself to a major purchase last week, I wouldn't have the funds at the moment for the 50% deposit :(. Need to save up a little first.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

We won't asking for pre-orders just yet. The project is in the early stages of completion. We will of course keep you informed as we go on. There will be an update in a month regarding how the project will move forward and such. At this stage we don't have any news on pricing until the features and spec have been bottomed out.

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19 hours ago, Waverley West said:

 

Yes, I think two workings a day were extended through to Glasgow Central via Carstairs as soon as that route was electrified.

 

I'll just have to imagine the catenary though, but that won't be a problem.

 

 

 

I think it was more than two. I thought maybe 6 in the early days, almost rivalling the West Coast route. I do remember using the new trains in preference to WCML because the west coast line was getting upgraded at the time . Even with the relatively slow journey Glasgow Central via Carstairs to Edinburgh there was still not much in it time wise between WCML and ECML , because of course south of Newcastle a lot of the ECML was 125mph. I do remember catching the 15.00 out of KX back because it made Edinburgh in 3hours 59 minutes . It then went onto Glasgow , so probably an overall time of 5 hours 10 mins . 

 

The route via ECML wasn't really sustainable though as there were few passengers on the Glasgow-Motherwell-Edinburgh leg and Inter City decided better use could be made of the sets south of the border where there was over crowding, so rediagramed the stock .  There were still a few trains in GNER days though.

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25 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

if you left KX at 3pm by car I wonder how far north you be in the same 3hours 59 mins?  

Midway between York and Newcastle if using the A1 and clearing the M25 junction within the first half hour, and observing the speed limits. But you wouldn't have shared a bottle of red over your early dinner before arrival at Waverley, while enjoying the prospects of the Northumberland coast and the Firth of Forth. And would you like a little something with your coffee; madam, sir? It's a lovely run...

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Top announcement and really do hope this is a success propelling you guys to do further electric or diesel locomotives and/or train packs in the future.

I'll be definitely interested in the LNER pack but need to budget for it as it will be an expensive 12 months coming up with all the other modern day releases so guys just take your time and bring the perfect 91/Mk4's to the market.

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Really keen to get a full LNER set and possibly a second Mk IV set if Bachmann do a DBC Class 90 which has been leased to LNER.  I will say this though, it’s going to be expensive lol.

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Oh good grief, I should just tell my boss to forward my wages to Cavalex and be done with it! 

 

Only kidding guys, best wishes with this one.

 

(+1 for GNER though...and a Cl.89 in same later...tee hee!) C6T. 

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We are currently still working out the kinks regarding what liveries etc will be in the first batch.

 

GNER blue seems to be quite rightly a favourite among the masses it seems. ;)

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15 hours ago, Legend said:

 

I think it was more than two. I thought maybe 6 in the early days, almost rivalling the West Coast route. I do remember using the new trains in preference to WCML because the west coast line was getting upgraded at the time . Even with the relatively slow journey Glasgow Central via Carstairs to Edinburgh there was still not much in it time wise between WCML and ECML , because of course south of Newcastle a lot of the ECML was 125mph. I do remember catching the 15.00 out of KX back because it made Edinburgh in 3hours 59 minutes . It then went onto Glasgow , so probably an overall time of 5 hours 10 mins . 

 

The route via ECML wasn't really sustainable though as there were few passengers on the Glasgow-Motherwell-Edinburgh leg and Inter City decided better use could be made of the sets south of the border where there was over crowding, so rediagramed the stock .  There were still a few trains in GNER days though.

Interestingly on the Class 50 'Vac Attack' (Locomaster Profiles - Wired for Sound) DVD two GNER Class 91/Mk4 formations are passed in relatively quick succession. One in the Eglington Street tunnel and the second before the junctions at Newton.

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Sounds like a fantastic project. Should fill an important gap in the market as the key prototype for the ECML over the last 30 years. To folk of my generation the 225 is iconic and, whilst not having the cult following of the 125, they have performed sterling service. Not my chosen scale(s) nor era for modelling, I wish you all the best and hope that it is successful. Given the initial feedback you should be on to a winner! :good_mini:

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Well done on the announcement guys - I'd be interested the N gauge option for the display shelf, especially if the current pictorial liveries were produced.  As others have commented with a soft spot for Class 68s, then the Mk5 announcement, its going to be expensive!!  I echo an earlier comment for the development to continue in 2mm to produce a similar spec 89 and 90 :) 

 

On 04/03/2019 at 19:51, Legend said:

Interesting. I’ll wait to see prices  before making decision.  My fear is that there are lots of goodies to sign up for at moment .  Not so sure about crowdfunding . It is a hobby not an investment, but let’s see terms and conditions . 

 

Without wishing to hijack the thread and start a back and forth of pros and cons, I think the comment from Legend has rather hit the nail on the head with some of these aspects.  Regardless of how Cavalex are doing things, some customers see all model purchases as a hobby not an investment - yet the reality is the cost of models these days it is an investment - its an investment in the hobby and an investment in a business (admittedly without any ownership or shareholding!!).  Yes Cavalex, RevolutioN or whomever are making a profit out of, they have to, but to them its a business and HAS to operate on business principals otherwise it falls down and everyone loses. Bachmann, Hornby and the big boys have the financial backing, the smaller guys delivering what we want as modellers, need our help. Yes they could go to various places for finance, but the net result is that the risk increases, the price increases, and the number of models produced decreases.  It all comes down to whether each individual has confidence and faith in the business concerned. Personally, given what they have achieved and delivered already, I don't see anything with Cavalex that causes me to have any doubts and will be more than happy to put my hand in my pocket and cough up!

 

Anyway, onto bigger and better things, I look forward to seeing the CADs, and hoping that the design work on the DVT will allow space for a small DCC decoder for the lights!

 

Rich

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My only worry that could threaten this excellent project is duplication from another player such as Hornby who have owned the current 91/Mk4 for a while, it's great see these smaller players come in with proposed top notch models to replace aged ones but it could also rattle some cages within the market subsequently creating duplication...sincerely hope this doesn't happen and that Cavalex can research, develop & produce these on their own.

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On ‎05‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 07:32, Legend said:

I think it was more than two. I thought maybe 6 in the early days, almost rivalling the West Coast route. I do remember using the new trains in preference to WCML because the west coast line was getting upgraded at the time . Even with the relatively slow journey Glasgow Central via Carstairs to Edinburgh there was still not much in it time wise between WCML and ECML , because of course south of Newcastle a lot of the ECML was 125mph. I do remember catching the 15.00 out of KX back because it made Edinburgh in 3hours 59 minutes . It then went onto Glasgow , so probably an overall time of 5 hours 10 mins . 

 

The route via ECML wasn't really sustainable though as there were few passengers on the Glasgow-Motherwell-Edinburgh leg and Inter City decided better use could be made of the sets south of the border where there was over crowding, so rediagramed the stock .  There were still a few trains in GNER days though.

 

The fastest took 4 hours 57 to Glasgow in 1992. The 3 hours 59 min services to Edinburgh were named - "The Scottish Pullman". Calling at York and Newcastle they were one minute faster than today's Flying Scotsman which takes 4 hours calling at Newcastle only. The 3 hours 59 included no recovery time however, if the train was late by Doncaster it would typically get stuck behind a Leeds working into King's Cross and that was it. I believe on-time running was achieved only 30% of the time. If I go to my next timetable (Summer 1993), the Scottish Pullmans have been extended to 4 hours 15 (16 mins recovery at the usual 2 mins per 50 miles).

 

The 1tp2h to Glasgow lasted until 2011, when East Coast withdrew them to allow the use of those IC225s on an enhanced EMCL core timetable. CrossCountry now provide the two-hourly ECML service into Glasgow, while LNER provides 1 train per day.

 

 

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On ‎04‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 17:20, MGR Hooper! said:

 

 

Just my suggestion.....

 

Train Pack:
- Class 91
- Coach B Standard Class (non-gangway end)
- Coach H Standard Class/Kitchen
- DVT

 

Coach Pack 1:
- Coach C Standard Class
- Coach D Standard Class
- Coach K First Class

 

Coach Pack 2:
- Coach E Standard Class
- Coach F Standard Class
- Coach L First Class
- Coach M First Class

 

Sorry for any errors in classification, whatever information I got is from Wikipedia as I couldn't find a better source so soon.

 

Cheers!

 

That's essentially correct for LNER operations.

 

The formation is:

DVT

Coach M - PO

Coach L - POD

Coach K - PO

Coach H - SV

Coach F - TOD

Coach E - TO

Coach D - TO

Coach C - TO

Coach B - TOE

 

The coach designations are:

 

DVT - Driving Van Trailer

PO - Pullman Open

POD - Pullman Open Disabled

SV - Service Vehicle

TOD - Tourist Open Disabled

TO - Tourist Open

TOE _ Tourist Open End

 

Until the Mallard refurbishment under GNER, the SV seated 20 First instead of 30 Standard as now and had the seating section adjoining First Class.

 

After all the Mk4s were in service InterCity operated 3 formations:

 

Edinburgh

DVT-PO-PO-PO-SV-TOD-TO-TO-TOE-Cl. 91

 

Newcastle/Leeds

DVT-PO-PO-SV-TOD-TO-TO-TO-TOE-Cl. 91

 

"Pullman" sets

DVT-PO-SV-PO-PO-SV-TOD-TO-TO-TOE-Cl. 91

 

 

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On 04/03/2019 at 17:20, MGR Hooper! said:

 

 

Just my suggestion.....

 

Train Pack:
- Class 91
- Coach B Standard Class (non-gangway end)
- Coach H Standard Class/Kitchen
- DVT

 

Coach Pack 1:
- Coach C Standard Class
- Coach D Standard Class
- Coach K First Class

 

Coach Pack 2:
- Coach E Standard Class
- Coach F Standard Class
- Coach L First Class
- Coach M First Class

 

Sorry for any errors in classification, whatever information I got is from Wikipedia as I couldn't find a better source so soon.

 

Cheers!

I there’s a lot of sense to that approach.

 

your not going to run a 91 with anything other than mk4’s, and your going to need a DVT regardless anything else. The kitchen / end coach are also one offs and risk selling less, so bundle the lot there’s a good starter set.

 

 

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I didn't mention earlier, not wanting to hijack Alex and Cav's announcement, but as part of a general discussion on IC225, I'd not want to make the decision on "flavour" of GNER livery.

Do I have these right chronologically?

Dark blue, white logo on locomotives. 

 

GNER logo colour changed to gold.

 

Red door application to coaches to meet sight impairment regs.

 

Route of the Flying Scotsman crests applied.

 

And then the Nat-Ex sticker blitz re-branding.

 

I personally model Leeds area 96-99 and would go up to West Yorkshire at least once a year during that time. My memories are that the 91s were painted pretty swiftly, the coaches taking a little longer. I'd settle for an Inter-City liveried set, but I know I'll have to add stainless steel light surrounds to the 91!

 

Barwell will also profit from this announcement BTW, I had two 90s from Leeds back dahn saaf, coincidentally the DB shod special and RfD 'Freightconnection'. Also photted 'Allerton T&RSMD' at Peterborough on an up service.

 

Happy days. C6T. 

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11 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I there’s a lot of sense to that approach.

 

your not going to run a 91 with anything other than mk4’s, and your going to need a DVT regardless anything else. The kitchen / end coach are also one offs and risk selling less, so bundle the lot there’s a good starter set.

 

 

I dunno, collectors are likely to only want the loco. And, in the early days at least, the 'Electras' were hauling all sorts of stock.

 

I'd recommend selling coach packs as suggested but keeping the motive power solitary. IMHO natch.

 

C6T. 

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29 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Not in passenger service they weren’t.

 

I’m sure you might pull an odd rabbit from the hat but you won’t pull a family of rabbits, I can only find runs with mk1/2 in test trains.

 

it was mk3 + HST DVT until mk4’s.

 

the HST DVT was fitted with TDM to work with the 91 specifically, and the purpose of the HST power car as a DVT was because the electrical of a 91 aren’t compatible with much of the rest of the nations rolling stock at the time.

 

As mk4’s werent ready it was a political choice of class 91s sitting in sidings, whilst the new ECML wires got shiny in the sun, or doll up HSTs to give them work and avoid the negative press.

S'cuse me then.

 

"your not going to run a 91 with anything other than mk4’s"

 

Unless you are (sorry, your are) apparently. C6T. 

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I would split the packs up like thus...

 

91 - singular pack. People may want more locos than rakes of mk4's (I would)

 

Coach pack 1 - allows a 4-coach + DVT formation

 

DVT

Coach M - PO

Coach H - SV

Coach C - TO

Coach B - TOE

 

Coach pack 2 - forms complete 9 car set

 

Coach L - POD

Coach K - PO

Coach F - TOD

Coach E - TO

Coach D - TO

 

That would work for National Express, East Coast, Virgin and LNER era... earlier times may be more complex with the different formations available

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17 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I'm still not getting it.

That at least is true. 

 

How you quantify:

"your not going to run a 91 with anything other than mk4’s, and your going to need a DVT regardless anything else."

I find ridiculous. Especially as you then give examples. Pax or no.

 

Beyond you actually knowing the market's buying preferences and a determination that what the prototype did or didn't do will directly affect sales I think I can safely dismiss your posts on the subject as flim flam.

 

C6T. 

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3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I there’s a lot of sense to that approach.

 

your not going to run a 91 with anything other than mk4’s, and your going to need a DVT regardless anything else. The kitchen / end coach are also one offs and risk selling less, so bundle the lot there’s a good starter set.

 

 

 

Shock horror, some might want a restaurant car and first class coach to run in their existing Hornby VTEC/LNER formations, given Hornby haven’t released them

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