Lisburn North - An 00 gauge layout

[Lambeg Man]

Awesome! Thanks for posting Pat.

[Hunslet 102]

Progress is looking good Steve 

[jhb171achil]

21 hours ago, Lambeg Man said:

 

For the life of me I have no memory of what was the lie of the land was to the left of this picture.

It was just the back gardens of the houses on Wallace Avenue.

[jhb171achil]

5 hours ago, pat141 said:

I got this map of the PRONI website showing Lisburn station in 1846-62.

You can see the gardens of the house and a path leading down to the bridge beside the station.

Absolutely superb, pat141 - that shows it perfectly.

 

It's also interesting to see the original position of the turntable - I was unaware of that. Must look that website up! The 1846 map doesn't appear to be on the OSI website.

[Lambeg Man]

Hi Jon,

 

I attach a copy of a map that I have no memory of where it came from or what the date of it is. You will see that the turntable seen in pat141's map is now a capstan turntable at the rear of the goods shed. The actual engine turntable is shown but not the crossovers to the east of the bridge. Also shown as I now see is the pathway through the smaller arch and the 'Lodge House' at the entrance to Wallace Park.

 

 

 

 

[Lambeg Man]

On 06/05/2021 at 20:57, jhb171achil said:

It was just the back gardens of the houses on Wallace Avenue.

 

Yes Jon, you were right. Have since found this 1965 picture -

 

[jhb171achil]

2 hours ago, Lambeg Man said:

 

Yes Jon, you were right. Have since found this 1965 picture -

 

And that ground being cleared to the right of the railway would be that British Legion place which backed onto the railway and would have been built about then. It would have been interesting to be "on the ground" at that stage, so to speak, as it might have been possible to see the remains of what would have been an avenue up to Wallace's House, the "Tech". By the way, it was a very impressive building inside too.

[Lambeg Man]

I have decided on a slight compromise. The 'heel' of the loop point will be just visible, but no loop will be incorporated.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Lambeg Man

[TheTurfBurner]

15 hours ago, Lambeg Man said:

Hi Jon,

 

I attach a copy of a map that I have no memory of where it came from or what the date of it is. You will see that the turntable seen in pat141's map is now a capstan turntable at the rear of the goods shed. The actual engine turntable is shown but not the crossovers to the east of the bridge. Also shown as I now see is the pathway through the smaller arch and the 'Lodge House' at the entrance to Wallace Park.

 

 

 

 

A couple of points - first, the cabin is on the up side. I think it moved circa 1914, which helps to date the map to late 19th/early 20th Century. Also, there is no sign of the stables which backed on to Antrim Road/Antrim Street (I think the railway bridge is the boundary between Street and Road). Excepting the wagon turntable at the back of the goods store and the turntable at far right (which must have been for turning locos off the Gt Vic Street locals - later used for turning the Banbridge railbus), this basic layout was essentially unchanged until the NIR era. One more thing, the line to the south of the goods store must have been later extended as the "third road", which was used for wagon storage long before it was extended again to Knockmore Junction in the early 1970s. Other than the above, this is the layout as I remember it from the early 1970s. 

 

[Hunslet 102]

Interesting compromise Steve, I assume with the hidden storage sidings it is not necessary to have it linked to the rest of the layout and saves trying to squeeze an extra track in on the curve 

[Lambeg Man]

On 05/05/2021 at 23:41, Lambeg Man said:

I wonder if any alteration was made in connection with the 1912 Third Line proposal of the GNR, i.e. the additional arches at Finaghy and Knockmore? Although the abutments are widely set, I think you would have a struggle to get a third line through there.

 

I take this back. I have looked at a Jonathan Allen photo taken from the north end of the 'up' platform (so taken further back from where the one I posted earlier was taken), showing an 'A' class hauling a cement train through the bridge. The gap between the train and the bridge abutment is actually considerably wide. Given the space available on the other side, I would say they could have got three tracks through the gap.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Lambeg Man

[Lambeg Man]

6 hours ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Interesting compromise Steve, I assume with the hidden storage sidings it is not necessary to have it linked to the rest of the layout and saves trying to squeeze an extra track in on the curve 

 

That's correct Hunslet. The first picture shows the point in position under the bridge.

 

 

The next two pictures illustrate the problem. In the first the Peco Setrack curves are shown in the position they would need to be placed for three tracks to be accommodated.

 

 

However, if the loop (third) line was added, the two main line tracks would need to go straight for at least 8". The next picture shows where the curves would end up if this course was followed.

 

 

 Okay, so move the bridge back 8". The distance between to the bridges forming the end pieces of the 'scenic' section are already slightly nearer each other than before, due to the need to incorporate a reverse curve at one end to have the lines swing left under the Belfast Road bridge. I didn't need to do this with the previous effort as the lines were going left anyway. Many thanks for your supportive comments.

 

 

 

  

 

9 hours ago, TheTurfBurner said:

later used for turning the Banbridge railbus),

 

I never knew a Railbus was deployed between Lisburn and Banbridge. Thank you Turfburner for your input about that map. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Lambeg Man

[jhb171achil]

On 09/05/2021 at 18:51, Lambeg Man said:

 

That's correct Hunslet. The first picture shows the point in position under the bridge.

 

 

The next two pictures illustrate the problem. In the first the Peco Setrack curves are shown in the position they would need to be placed for three tracks to be accommodated.

 

 

However, if the loop (third) line was added, the two main line tracks would need to go straight for at least 8". The next picture shows where the curves would end up if this course was followed.

 

 

 Okay, so move the bridge back 8". The distance between to the bridges forming the end pieces of the 'scenic' section are already slightly nearer each other than before, due to the need to incorporate a reverse curve at one end to have the lines swing left under the Belfast Road bridge. I didn't need to do this with the previous effort as the lines were going left anyway. Many thanks for your supportive comments.

 

 

 

  

 

 

I never knew a Railbus was deployed between Lisburn and Banbridge. Thank you Turfburner for your input about that map. 

New one to me too; interesting! Senior said that in times past, it was also used for services on the Antrim branch only (i.e. Antrim to Lisburn and back) - though I'm unaware of any specific examples.

[jhb171achil]

On a related note, I wonder if any illustrations exist of the original Lisburn station in Ulster Railway days? Probably something like that at Moira?

[Lambeg Man]

I've never seen any JHB. There  was a circa 1900 postcard published by Mr. Ferris in one of his books, but that shows the 'Mills' building we are familiar with. Moria apart, remember the original GVS was an Ulster Railway building. Balmoral, Dunmurry, Lambeg, Lurgan and Porteedown were all GNR built. As Moria served a "village" and as passenger traffic developed towards Belfast rather than in the 'up' direction, the GNR probably never saw a need to provide a more modern building on the 'up' platform.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Lambeg Man

[jhb171achil]

I thought Portadown was UR too? Or partly so?

[Lambeg Man]

May well have been JHB.

 

It appears there is a national shortage of track underlay. PECO don't make it anymore, Gaugemaster appears to be unavailable and neither Hattons or Rails have any in stock. I got the last available roll of that 'Woodland' (made in the USA) stuff from my local model shop yesterday. I used it to finish off two 'roads' of the Hidden Sidings, the last being done with cork sheet.

 

 

(Above) View of the Hidden Sidings from the back of the garage.

 

 

(Above) View of the Hidden Sidings from the front of the garage. The solitary coach in No. 5 road gives an indication of the length of Hidden Sidings available.

 

 

(Above) Closer view of the double crossovers between No. 3 & 4 and No. 6 & 7 roads.

 

All the track for the Hidden Sidings has been roughly laid and apart from a few pins to retain curves, nothing has as yet been finally ‘pinned down’. The pause is due to the fact that I have yet to decide where the ‘centre’ point of my layout is and consequently run all point and track alignment from that point. In respect of track underlay, although I recovered what I could from the previous layout, moving the ‘throats’ of the Hidden Sidings further out than where they were before in relation the actual centre point of the sidings, greatly increased my need for a suitable track underlay. Say what you will about how rubbish PECO underlay was, but Jesus, Mary and Joseph (and the wee donkey), it was simplicity compared to trying to cut cork sheet to fit!

 

The extra length of the new garage and the moving further out of the points that make up the ‘throats’ for the Hidden Sidings, has provided a slight increase in capacity as to that in the previous layout which had 11 'roads'. The 'roads' of the new Hidden Sidings are numbered 1 to 9 from the back wall. Roads 3 to 7 can be accessed from either the ‘up’ or ‘down’ running lies. No. 5 is in the centre and is intended as a reversal line for any long train switching direction. Roads 3 & 4, and Roads 6 & 7 are intended to be ‘shuttle’ reception sidings for the various Steam/Railcar local workings. Road 1 and Road 9 will probably become the home of two lengthy goods trains, leaving Roads 2 and 8 as ‘through’ running lines.

 

As seen below, No. 1 'road' was curtailed in length by a heating pipe. However the loop provided on the other side will hold 6 coaches and is intended to act in the capacity as a refuge for any train supposedly using the non-existent 'loop' at Lisburn.

 

 

(Above) Closer view of the arrangement to No. 1 & 2 roads to deal with an intrusive heating pipe.

 

 

(Above) View of the point work accessing the Hidden Sidings at the back of the garage. The 10” (60’ in scale) track panels stacked in the baseboard corner are for the extra scenic section to go in front of the Hidden Sidings baseboards.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Lambeg Man

[Hunslet 102]

Very impressive Steve. A huge storage area for all sizes of train formations. Just curiosity, do you need roads 2 and 8 as through lines, would the 2 lines in front of the hidden sidings not do the same job?

[Lambeg Man]

14 hours ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Very impressive Steve. A huge storage area for all sizes of train formations. Just curiosity, do you need roads 2 and 8 as through lines, would the 2 lines in front of the hidden sidings not do the same job?

 

Thank you Hunslet. Firstly, the front scenic section is far off at this time. When I said 'through' roads, I should have mentioned that all the roads/sidings have insulting fishplates fitted approximately at the half way mark. So roads 2 and 8 can hold TWO long trains each on either side of the insulating break. Fitting the insulators doubles the train capacity for each siding. Hope this makes sense. LM

 

 

(Above) Overall view of the layout end at the rear of the garage.

[TheTurfBurner]

On 11/05/2021 at 20:27, jhb171achil said:

On a related note, I wonder if any illustrations exist of the original Lisburn station in Ulster Railway days? Probably something like that at Moira?

There is/was a painting of Lisburn station in UR days in the Ulster Folk & Transport Museum, transport gallery. If I recall correctly, it shows a single storey Italianate structure on both up and island platforms, although I recall there was some doubt as to the painting’s accuracy.

[kirley]

Very impressive hidden sidings Steve, looking forward to seeing them filled with stock.

[Lambeg Man]

On 25/05/2021 at 19:19, kirley said:

Very impressive hidden sidings Steve, looking forward to seeing them filled with stock.

 

Hi Kirley, your request has been duely noted.

 

 

 

 

 

While the number of storage sidings has been reduced from the previous 11 to the current 9, it appears this new yard will be capable of storing all my current rolling stock. Now, on with the electrics!

Edited June 9, 2021 by Lambeg Man

[Lambeg Man]

Having emptied the ALL the rolling stock out of their storage drawers and while there is much to do with the passenger stock, I have paused to reflect on the goods rolling stock. Nearly all (except the excellent models sourced by Provincial Wagons ) were repainted prior to the house move. In the 1960's goods trains through Lisburn were in two distinct periods of operation. Pre-1965 all were UTA steam hauled. Wagons were a mix of CIE and UTA (mainly ex-GNR but some ex-NCC wagons were seen. The UTA wagons were in a generally disreputably state and 'new' paint having peeled away to show the original owner's livery! An exception were the Courthaulds open wagons that were repainted from 1964 on. After 1965 all change. UTA goods wagons have all but disappeared and CIE operated fitted trains hauled by GM power have become the order of the day.

 

When I carried out an audit of my wagon stock, which has been acquired over many years without much thought to eventual usage, I found they fell loosely into three groups. The first could be described as coming from the GNR era.

 

 

Cattle vans and the Provincial Wagons GNR furniture container together with 5 of their GNR cement vans.

 

The second group could be described as the UTA era.

 

 

All are generally repaints of BR designed wagons.

 

The third group are reckoned to pass muster as a post 1965 CIE fitted train.

 

 

9 cement 'bubbles' are on the tail. I have photographs of BR containers being carried on these trains.

 

However with this project I envisaged having only two goods trains, one operating in each direction. The first is intended to represent a pre-1965 service through Lisburn and here certain rules then kicked in. Wagons loaded with coal would have only been in an 'up' service. Likewise empty cattle vans would only have operated in the 'up' direction. Accordingly I decided that this (UTA) train would only run in the 'up' direction through 'Lisburn North', while the second train would be a CIE fitted 'down' goods, cement 'bubble's, lots of grey liveried vans, etc.

 

This leaves the problem of the excellent livery finish on the Provincial Wagons GNR (and UTA) stock. Do I repaint or sell on and buy second hand vans and wagons to daub grey paint all over? Hey ho! 

 

 

 

[pat141]

Your the boss, run what you like.

Trying to run a model railway in a prototypical way can limit what you can and can't do.

[Colin_McLeod]

2 hours ago, Lambeg Man said:

This leaves the problem of the excellent livery finish on the Provincial Wagons GNR (and UTA) stock. Do I repaint or sell on

 

This springs to mind, but perhaps I am being over optimistic lol