Pacer Competition - Have they gone completely DafT

[TheSignalEngineer]

Just noticed an article about this in the local news.

 

The DafT, run by Calamity Chris, aka Failing Grayling, has come up with an absolutely wizzo idea as to how to ensure that the people of the North don't forget how good the Pacers were when new stock is introduced.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/competition-will-breathe-new-life-into-an-old-pacer-train

 

Locals don't seem impressed.

[woodyfox]

Might not be such a 'daft' idea.

 

Why dispose of stock that is not life expired? I used to drive these and always thought they'd be ideal for use as an express parcels dedicated unit. They could be adapted easily with rapid city to city transit timings.

 

They do encapsulate perfectly the spend thrift economic railway of the 1980's that made do with what was affordable, but it is a greater crime to destroy items that still have a use.

[Zomboid]

Looks like it's basically "we're chucking these away unless you want them for anything".

 

No harm in asking.

[enginelane]

Conversion for kitchen, electrical, fire safety exit, accessibility, security etc I would have thought bring further use in the same cost bracket as a modular building built to present code regarding insulation fire etc.

 

perhaps they could be used agriculturally, chicken sheds, micro green greenhouses or pigeon lofts. Or as libraries, children centres to replace the ones that were shut 

 

they are part of Railway history and as such should have some form of preservation but in a Railway setting. 

['CHARD]

The latest stunt from the ideology of austerity shame.  Pathetic.  Starve existing community services of funding, starve them into extinction, then suggest these sad unloved trains are some sort of happy little village saviours....   It would be sweetly tragi-comic were it not such a sick example of Tory thinking.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

So the reuse of expired rolling stock for other uses is a bad idea? If this is a "sick example of Tory thinking", perhaps you can consider why Melbourne did something similar with their retired trams, or we see the reuse of old trains for other uses in the US, or Japan, or Australia, or Continental Europe, or in the UK? If nobody wants them, they'll be binned, but I reckon some creative type will seize the opportunity.

[Patriot87003]

Is that an April 1st article in true DfT/.gov fashion been published late?!

 

A few ideas from me though ...

- Refurbish for use on HS2 to solve their rolling stock dilemma

- Create a Vic Berry style stack of Pacers ready for November 5th

- Convert into busses

- Convert into ‘Pacervan-Bungling-lows’ and donate to each MP to use as a place of residence to save the taxpayer some expenses (That’ll teach them!)

 

Joking aside ... why are the DfT doing this publicity stunt, when there are many other rolling stock fleets of much better quality about to head to scrap? (Class 313/314 etc)

[Mallard60022]

Ok so this a weird idea but I believe the heart is there even if the head is a little loose, (despite me hating the whole Tory ethos)!

Some heritage railways could use these as back up stock for whatever, even Engineering staff support vehicles? Someone working for a heritage railway will tell me why this idea is shi#e, however there are some that use things like this. They work, have probably been well maintained and could be made to look better by groups of some sort. I don't want one but there will be some who have enough imagination (as Claude infers) to maybe do something with one? 

Could be an Ice Cream parlour at the GCR if they can be made accessible?

Perhaps the possibly soon to be unemployed Apprentices in Doncaster HS2 training School could be tasked with some sort of modification project?

Finally I am sure the Armed Forces might like to have a few for target practice or Top gear uses one for a stunt!

Have a nice day.

P 

[woodenhead]

If they want to give them away then there can't be much metal in them!!

 

Maybe it's a new Strategic Reserve in plain sight sat in leafy country villages in case of nuclear war - they're so uncomplicated that they will safely absorb an EM pulse.

 

How about completing what BR was testing, stick the bodies on MK1 underframes and you have indestructible coaches for the preservation movement. 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by woodenhead
spelling

[phil_sutters]

https://weburbanist.com/2009/10/29/all-aboard-clever-recycled-train-car-homes-offices-hotels/ Just a few ideas!

or

[Reorte]

I'm all for trying to find a use for anything rather than just chucking it out.

[APOLLO]

Might make a nice (small) bridge !!

 

 

Brit15

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, woodyfox said:

Why dispose of stock that is not life expired? I used to drive these and always thought they'd be ideal for use as an express parcels dedicated unit. They could be adapted easily with rapid city to city transit timings.

 

Pacers were never designed for heavy main-line use. They were supposed to be for working lightly used trains on rural branches with limited main line running. Big problem with this was that they were very noisy on '2nd radius' curves like the Esk Valley.

 

3 hours ago, enginelane said:

Conversion for kitchen, electrical, fire safety exit, accessibility, security etc I would have thought bring further use in the same cost bracket as a modular building built to present code regarding insulation fire etc.

 

perhaps they could be used agriculturally, chicken sheds, micro green greenhouses or pigeon lofts. Or as libraries, children centres to replace the ones that were shut 

 

Would be near-impossible to get a 142 up to the required standards. The access rules are one of the reasons they are being taken off the rails. They probably don't even comply with the present animal welfare rules for chickens but would probably be ideal as cannabis farms.

 

24 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Might make a nice (small) bridge !!

 

 

Brit15

I can see that going down well in the National Park. 

 

Perhaps they could be put on derelict factory sites for use by the local yoof as grafitti walls in place of the facilities for their entertainment which for various reasons no longer exist?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Returning to their being fit for purpose as trains, There were questions raised by HMRI following the incident at Winsford South Junction in June 1999 where an empty Pacer had the rear cab and one seat bay destroyed and its body removed from the chassis by 87027. 

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HSE_Winsford1999.pdf

 

A report was supposed to be published by the HMRI following work they had requested from the HSE Laboratory, Halcrow and Atkins. I can't find any record of this report. Does anyone have a copy or know of a link to it? 

 

21. Immediately after the Winsford crash HMRI requested the Health and Safety Laboratory (HSL), in collaboration with the consultants W S Atkins and Halcrow Transmark, as a matter of urgent priority to examine the Class 142 pacer vehicles involved in the incident, assess their likely crashworthiness when impacting other rail vehicle types and advise on possible ways of improving their safety. HMRI is already in discussions with the two Rail Stock Leasing Companies who own Class 141-144 vehicles (which include Pacers) to consider the outcome of this research. The results of the HSL work will be published shortly.

['CHARD]

2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Returning to their being fit for purpose as trains, There were questions raised by HMRI following the incident at Winsford South Junction in June 1999 where an empty Pacer had the rear cab and one seat bay destroyed and its body removed from the chassis by 87027. 

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HSE_Winsford1999.pdf

 

A report was supposed to be published by the HMRI following work they had requested from the HSE Laboratory, Halcrow and Atkins. I can't find any record of this report. Does anyone have a copy or know of a link to it? 

 

21. Immediately after the Winsford crash HMRI requested the Health and Safety Laboratory (HSL), in collaboration with the consultants W S Atkins and Halcrow Transmark, as a matter of urgent priority to examine the Class 142 pacer vehicles involved in the incident, assess their likely crashworthiness when impacting other rail vehicle types and advise on possible ways of improving their safety. HMRI is already in discussions with the two Rail Stock Leasing Companies who own Class 141-144 vehicles (which include Pacers) to consider the outcome of this research. The results of the HSL work will be published shortly.

 

The Pacer fleet(s) were modified at at least one location to improve their crashworthiness/ surviveability in such circumstances.  I need to look further, but from memory Hunslet-Barclay tendered for the work, as did Railcare (Springburn/ Wolverton).  IIRC the mods included some impact absorbing telescopic damping, or have I been taking substances?    I remember Porterbrook and Angel Trains contracting the work anyway, and the design being carried out by some third party TESCo.   I need to keep better records - reminder to self!

[Steven B]

Four tube train cars ended up as offices in Shoreditch and plenty of more and less glamourous BR stock has been given a new life as garden sheds, glamping accomodation and restaurants. There's a DMU car at the Kirklees Light Railway for childrens birthday parties for example.

 

Reusing these is this way is a great idea. I just wish I have room for one! With large windows it'd make a great garden room or even a model railway shed.

 

Steven B.

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

12 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

The Pacer fleet(s) were modified at at least one location to improve their crashworthiness/ surviveability in such circumstances.  I need to look further, but from memory Hunslet-Barclay tendered for the work, as did Railcare (Springburn/ Wolverton).  IIRC the mods included some impact absorbing telescopic damping, or have I been taking substances?    I remember Porterbrook and Angel Trains contracting the work anyway, and the design being carried out by some third party TESCo.   I need to keep better records - reminder to self!

I remember some mods being carried out on the 142s to stop the bodies falling off as the original straps were prone to stretching and in the event of collision or instant deceleration of the chassis they could break.  There is a double row of fastenings (they look a bit like big pop rivets) between the lights in the outer end door footwell on the modified ones.

['CHARD]

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

Four tube train cars ended up as offices in Shoreditch 

 

'Creative spaces' as they were dubbed!  These were/ are above the Village Underground venue in Holywell Lane:

 

[w124bob]

I've said this elsewhere but, one of the prime objectives of a buliding is being waterproof . So they fail before we even start. I hear they might be sold to Gillette! If the north (my home) really needs cheap buildings then we can use shipping containers. If I sound bitter about Pacers, thats because I had 18 years driving them, theyed probably fail as razor blades too!

[Mike Storey]

5 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 

Would be near-impossible to get a 142 up to the required standards. The access rules are one of the reasons they are being taken off the rails. They probably don't even comply with the present animal welfare rules for chickens but would probably be ideal as cannabis farms.

 

 

 

I believe you are way off. As a static unit, they would be very easy to convert to various uses within current regs - store/shed, cafe, bar, training room, garden office, community centre, museum/display room, observation shed, campsite centre etc etc. A ramp would overcome accessibility issues, although toilet an issue. Fire exit easily managed. They have lovely big windows, but some of them leaked. Electrics need a think. The big cost advantage of these vehicles, compared say to Mark 1 based vehicles, is the lack of asbestos.

 

Porterbrook are donating them, gratis, so costs are only transport, conversion to new purpose, and maybe land, if not already available. Might sound like Victorian largesse, but is actually what we should all be thinking about - re-using rather than always buying new stuff. Tories are not always wrong.....

 

[Mike Storey]

5 minutes ago, w124bob said:

I've said this elsewhere but, one of the prime objectives of a building is being waterproof . So they fail before we even start. 

 

Very easily solved as a static unit. Having had to re-use dozens of temporary buildings for site works, you ain't see nuffink.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Take part of the body off. Mount a light crane. And you have quite a useful track maintenance vehicle for preserved railways.

[brushman47544]

How about as a waiting room on a cold and windswept station platform.

[Mike Storey]

1 minute ago, brushman47544 said:

How about as a waiting room on a cold and windswept station platform.

 

Submit your idea for where and why, to the contact details provided in the DfT release, and Robert becomes your Relation.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

How about as a waiting room on a cold and windswept station platform.

Probably be worse than the old Abacus bus shelters with an opening at each end.