Pacer Competition - Have they gone completely DafT

[woodenhead]

20 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

How about as a waiting room on a cold and windswept station platform.

Problem is there will be no-one safety trained to open the doors and let you out when your train arrives (or even let you in to wait!!)

[Mallard60022]

Daring statement alert. Mr Grayling could modify them, (not himself but with some help from the unemployed), and then use them for transporting things across the channel from the regeneated Port Hub Ramsgate, once the word that shall not be spoken here has been accomplished.

Gone before I even finished.

Ar$£

[roundhouse]

Could GTR salvage the seats to replace the ironing boards in the class 700 Great White Worms?

[JDW]

It does seem a bit of an odd idea at first but as others have said, there's a good history of railway stick being re-used, from old vans as sheds to Melbourne trams.  Pacers would seem ideal in that they have lots of windows, good sized doors at each end and are a more manageable size compared to something like a 75ft/23m 153/156/158/Mk3 shell, or a 150 with doors part way down.  If it can be done with old buses, which have been turned into static classrooms and libraries at schools, a pacer shouldn't be much harder.  

[brack]

Prison hulks

[APOLLO]

Park em all up at Westminster and make the Dft work from them !!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

8 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Park em all up at Westminster and make the Dft work from them !!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

Or line them up along Whitehall for MPs to use as temporary offices during the refurbishment of the Palace of Westminster. 

Alternatively issue them with sleeping bags and make them stay overnight when actually at Westminster. No second homes allowed. At the peak hour loading factor on some Northern routes they would only need about 4 sets to get the whole lot in.

[Pandora]

It is high time for another strategic reserve,  stable the Pacers in the Woodhead  Tunnel,  brick  up the tunnel mouth ends, and wait for the media to report the rumours for the next 50 years.

[russ p]

Whatever you do with them other than use them as trains is going to look very pikey new age traveller!

A bit like people living in bristol LHs in the early 90s

A few weeks back caught an IEP from Totnes to Newton Abbot then a 143 to Torquay and I'm not joking the latter was far more comfortable

[ColinK]

With the body being made from Leyland National parts, they could always be converted into buses?  Perhaps not, I remember driving and riding on Leyland National - they were grim.

 

Alternativly give them to VivaRail and see if they can convert them into decent trains.

[JDW]

11 minutes ago, ColinK said:

With the body being made from Leyland National parts, they could always be converted into buses?  Perhaps not, I remember driving and riding on Leyland National - they were grim.

 

Alternativly give them to VivaRail and see if they can convert them into decent trains.

 

Yep, sounds like a simple plan to me.  Just change a few technical details (but only minor things like they're longer, wider, haven't got anywhere for the wheels or engine to go, too many doors in the wrong places, ...) and away they go!  

[royaloak]

10 hours ago, Patriot87003 said:

Joking aside ... why are the DfT doing this publicity stunt, when there are many other rolling stock fleets of much better quality about to head to scrap? (Class 313/314 etc)

Probably because the Pacers are diesel and 313/314 etc are electric so they arent much use if you havent got any 25kV knitting are they!

[TravisM]

I think the leasing companies might have something to say about this.  Being a company which by law must make a profit even though they’ve probably made a shed load of money out of them, they will still want to get something back for their investment even if it’s just for scrap.

[Barry O]

With the age of the vehicles and zero likelihood that they could be leased out the only value to Porterbrook would be scap value if that. So they can afford to let one go for free.

 

In the past redundant stock was turned  into holiday homes, cricket pavilions, tea rooms etc as well as becoming part of people dwellings. 

 

Rather than knocking the idea perhaps an enterprising group will come up with a community use which will be a strong positive for their community (perhaps to replace unrepairable or fire damaged community buildings?)

 

Baz

[Mike Storey]

12 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I think the leasing companies might have something to say about this.  Being a company which by law must make a profit even though they’ve probably made a shed load of money out of them, they will still want to get something back for their investment even if it’s just for scrap.

 

Porterbrook, the leasing company, have said something. Their capital value will have been written off after 30 years. They are donating them to anyone who wants one. Otherwise, scrap.

 

 

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

With the age of the vehicles and zero likelihood that they could be leased out the only value to Porterbrook would be scap value if that. So they can afford to let one go for free.

 

 

Scraping stuff (at least inside the EU) IS EXPENSIVE! - why do you think most ship[ping companies send their old fleets to the beaches of Bangladesh to broken up using workers with minimal PPE and were disposing of toxic materials is easy (if harmful to the environment and the local inhabitants).

 

By 'giving away' there assets Porterbrook are actually disposing of a liability - its not guaranteed that the 'scrap value' will be more than the cost of actually scrapping the thing meaning Porterbrook could well end up out of pocket (i.e. they effectively have to pay to get them recycled.

 

Of course 10 years down the line if the new owner wants to get rid of their Pacer then they will have to arrange scrapping - and may end up shouldering the cost rather than Porterbrook.

[Joseph_Pestell]

17 hours ago, ColinK said:

With the body being made from Leyland National parts, they could always be converted into buses?  Perhaps not, I remember driving and riding on Leyland National - they were grim.

 

Alternativly give them to VivaRail and see if they can convert them into decent trains.

 

The Leyland National seemed grim by comparison with buses that had gone before. Quite comfortable though by comparison with some of the bone-shakers on the road these days.

[John-Miles]

Parliament is going to have to find a temporary home while the Houses of Parliament is refurbished. Why not give them lots of Pacers all joined together as their offices. 

[jjb1970]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

why do you think most ship[ping companies send their old fleets to the beaches of Bangladesh to broken up using workers with minimal PPE and were disposing of toxic materials is easy (if harmful to the environment and the local inhabitants).

 

That's no longer true. EU flag ships and non-EU flag ships located in Europe are subject to the EU ship recycling regulation. IMO agreed the Hong Kong Convention on recycling ships a decade ago however it hasn't entered into force yet as it has not reached the threshold of parties ratifying it to enter into force, which is unfortunate. Despite that, a lot of yards in South Asia have instituted all the necessary improvements and systems to comply with the requirements of the Hong Kong Convention and it is increasingly a requirement of ship financing, securing charters, cargo etc to recycle ships in a safe and environmentally responsible manner and to use facilities meeting the demands of the HKC. The story of the EU SRR and HKC is an interesting example of international politics as despite making a big issue of the matter few EU countries have ratified the HKC (despite the EU SRR having been broadly aligned with HKC) and there has been some examples of South Asian yards receiving documents from classification societies declaring that they meet the requirements of the HKC but then failing EU SRR audits for silly things which has created suspicions that the SRR is being used inappropriately.

[PatB]

Put them all in one spot, then take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure ;).

[The Stationmaster]

On 29/05/2019 at 09:48, Reorte said:

I'm all for trying to find a use for anything rather than just chucking it out.

Agreed - but in this case we are talking about Pacers.  That means a lot of glass and not much metal and frame so in many respects they would present problems when used for just about any sort of building other than a greenhouse.  As far as I can see it's a not too bad idea somewhat poorly presented as it latches on to a tradition of using old railway vehicle bodies for all sorts of things (= realistic recycling/reuse)  but offering what is really a not very suitable body to do whatever is in mind.  

 

Fortunately I don't have room for one in my garden and there isn't a crane with a long enough reach to put one there as I doubt they would offer much visually.  But somebody might think of a use for one.

[OhOh]

Cut-off the ends, line a few up outside a supermarket / station / theatre or whatever and could have a new top-hit attraction

[eastglosmog]

Why not donate a few to the Isle of Wight steam railway?  They could offer comparative rides with their 4 wheel coaching stock and we could judge whether modern travelers are as hardy as their Victorian ancestors.

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 That means a lot of glass and not much metal and frame so in many respects they would present problems when used for just about any sort of building other than a greenhouse. 

 

From my, mercifully, few trips in one of these colander impersonators, an aquarium would be a pretty good use, although thinking about it, if the bottom half of the body is as good as the top then there are insurmountable problems retaining the ingress of water methinks.

 

Mike.

[dibber25]

New York City Transit Authority created an artificial reef with old subway car bodies.