DJM, the end.

[melmerby]

Oh Dear

Shame it's ended up like that.

I wonder whether somebody else might take on some of the assets and continue what has been started?

Edited June 6, 2019 by melmerby

[maq1988]

Well I wish everyone who has paid monies the best of luck in resolutions.

 

Hopefully some of the hard work on projects that has been put in will be continued elsewhere - I still want a J94 in N and O.

 

Whether you've agreed with Dave's methods in the past or not I'm sure this is not the ending anyone wanted.

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting that it is a Creditors Voluntary Liquidation which indicates the company has sought to be wound up because it is insolvent and can't pay its creditors.  Slightly different from a Complusory Liquidation.

 

https://www.gov.uk/liquidate-your-company/creditors-voluntary-liquidation

 

Presumably the crowd funders are among the creditors and it is regrettable that many of them are likely to lose their money with nothing to show for it.

[96701]

Sod the money, as any gambler the money that I have paid I could afford to lose, I feel for Dave. He must be exceptionally depressed as to how things have turned out. And please don't start playing the competence card, most of us don't know the limits of our competence until we discover that we aren't which leads to further depression.

[Edwardian]

No surprise whatsoever, Sad for the individuals concerned, who have my sympathy, but inevitable. The lesson, if there is one, is not to be seduced by the hype; pay your money where there is a solid track record of delivering what is promised. 

[maq1988]

5 minutes ago, 96701 said:

...I feel for Dave. He must be exceptionally depressed as to how things have turned out...

 

Completely agree. I can understand people's frustration with the situation Dave may have lost a good deal of money himself, and his own livelihood. His business has gone under and will no doubt he will have taken a blow to his reputation.

 

Every business starts with no history of being able to deliver products. Every business must try and build a reputation of being reliable and 'safe' based on starting with nothing. Unfortunately people get caught up in the fallout if things go wrong.

[truffy]

1 minute ago, maq1988 said:

Every business starts with no history of being able to deliver products. Every business must try and build a reputation of being reliable and 'safe' based on starting with nothing. Unfortunately people get caught up in the fallout if things go wrong.

There are ways, and there are ways.

[Roy Langridge]

11 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

No surprise whatsoever, Sad for the individuals concerned, who have my sympathy, but inevitable. The lesson, if there is one, is not to be seduced by the hype; pay your money where there is a solid track record of delivering what is promised. 

You seem to have forgotten that  for some of us we placed orders on the back of deliveries of a 71, Austerity etc.. Yes there has been delays, but if that were to stop me ordering, I wouldn’t have half my Bachmann stock, my D600, my Thumpers...

 

Hindsight is wonderful.

 

Roy

[Ouroborus]

He has been in a similar position before with N-thusiast and he got it all back together then, so maybe he can do it again, although I guess that any investors in MK3 will be very wary.  Whatever way he goes, I hope he takes a hard luck at how this panned out from start to finish.  Maybe running your own business just isn't for him

[Trainshed Terry]

"YIKES!"

 

I feel very sad athe tghis news that DJM has to close it's books as when I looked atbnthe models he has done they where done to a very high standard.

 

My I say and wish Dave the best of luck in his next venture.

 

Terry.

[Legend]

19 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

He has been in a similar position before with N-thusiast and he got it all back together then, so maybe he can do it again, although I guess that any investors in MK3 will be very wary.  Whatever way he goes, I hope he takes a hard luck at how this panned out from start to finish.  Maybe running your own business just isn't for him

 

‘I think that’s the point . Some people are very knowledgeable on model railways  and great on design but just can’t run a business . Enthusiasm just ran away . I hope Daves ok . He must be devastated . 

[atom3624]

I could tell in my initial communications with him that he's a 'real enthusiast'.

 

Very sorry it's going the way it more-than appears to be, and YES, definitely wish Dave all the best for the future.

 

Al.

[Ravenser]

So now we know. 

 

The main thing now is for the liquidators to find out the extent of the shortfall - is the hole a large 5-figure sum or a 6-figure one? If the administration of DJM - and its crowdfunding monies was as haphazard as some of the anecdotes suggest , the liquidators may have a long and difficult job sorting out what money was taken, and where the funds ended up.

 

I really hope this is the end, and a line is drawn now. Enough money has been lost

[Markwj]

I have lost money and feel like we have been strung along for quite some time. The writing I think was on the wall a while ago but having said that I hope Dave can pick himself up and find himself a new career some distance from model railways! 

 

 

[Edwardian]

52 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

You seem to have forgotten that  for some of us we placed orders on the back of deliveries of a 71, Austerity etc.. Yes there has been delays, but if that were to stop me ordering, I wouldn’t have half my Bachmann stock, my D600, my Thumpers...

 

Hindsight is wonderful.

 

Roy

 

Not hindsight in my case, I assure you, as I long since concluded that this manufacturer could not live up to its claims. it had every chance, including a loyal fanbase, sympathetic treatment on RMWeb and commissions from major retailers.  Despite this, it managed to fail, in the process letting down commissioners with flawed products and loyal fans and crowd-funders who had invested emotionally and financially. In short, DJ Models had its chance and blew it, and we have seen how hollowly the attempts to blame everyone else for this have rung, adding insult to not inconsiderable injury. No, I was not a fan.  For my part, I wrote DJ Models off some time ago, so, no, this is no surprise; I have been expecting this manufacturer to run out of road for some time. Further, I cannot see it as a loss to the hobby, because the designer never managed to produce a product within my areas of interest that was to an worthwhile standard and really it had become a thing of empty promises long before the end.  I'm not going to say nice things about the company just because it's dead; it had serious flaws and that's why it died.  

 

This does not in any way make it any the less sad for all those affected, and I extend my sympathy to the proprietor; for all the early hubris and recent grandstanding antics I suspect that he is in a whole world of pain at the moment and that is a matter for regret.  I hope he can pick himself up, dust himself off and start again at something.  I've had my fair share of failure in life, so I can sympathise, but I also know that these things happen and when they do we must carry on as best we may.  Good luck to him in that.  Like many of us, I suspect he must take the consolation of emerging from an experience sadder but wiser than when he started. 

 

Also, I cannot help but feel that it might have been better had loyal customers received some communication from the proprietor rather than find out the truth in the way it has unfolded. But, then again, he has clearly had a lot on his plate, so, perhaps, he should be forgiven for that. 

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interesting that it is a Creditors Voluntary Liquidation which indicates the company has sought to be wound up because it is insolvent and can't pay its creditors.  Slightly different from a Complusory Liquidation.

 

https://www.gov.uk/liquidate-your-company/creditors-voluntary-liquidation

 

Presumably the crowd funders are among the creditors and it is regrettable that many of them are likely to lose their money with nothing to show for it.

 

I see it also says:

In a creditors’ voluntary liquidation, the liquidator acts in the interest of the creditors not the directors.

 

We don,t know who the creditors are in this case of course. But very regrettable for all around. It is a shame he engaged on so many projects with absolutely the  minimal of resources. History is fall of examples of armies engaged on too many fronts. 

What beats me is the sharpness it suddenly fell. He was still pushing on with so many projects not long ago and even opening new expressions but finances (as well as here) must surely have shown since a good while, that this was way beyond capacity and that - at best - consolidation was required, at worst he was digging a deeper hole he could never recover from though maybe he could have made it smaller.

 

To his credit, when he must have understood that he had as much chance of getting there as the Japanease had of winning WWII after the US recovered, that at least he spared everyone from claiming second payments. 

I feel sorry for those in pain, especially Dave who seems to have lost everything.

Edited June 6, 2019 by JSpencer

[96701]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Not hindsight in my case, I assure you, as I long since concluded that this manufacturer could not live up to its claims. it had every chance, including a loyal fanbase, sympathetic treatment on RMWeb and commissions from major retailers.  Despite this, it managed to fail, in the process letting down commissioners with flawed products and loyal fans and crowd-funders who had invested emotionally and financially. In short, DJ Models had its chance and blew it, and we have seen how hollowly the attempts to blame everyone else for this have rung, adding insult to not inconsiderable injury. No, I was not a fan.  For my part, I wrote DJ Models off some time ago, so, no, this is no surprise; I have been expecting this manufacturer to run out of road for some time. Further, I cannot see it as a loss to the hobby, because the designer never managed to produce a product within my areas of interest that was to an worthwhile standard and really it had become a thing of empty promises long before the end.  I'm not going to say nice things about the company just because it's dead; it had serious flaws and that's why it died.  

 

This does not in any way make it any the less sad for all those affected, and I extend my sympathy to the proprietor; for all the early hubris and recent grandstanding antics I suspect that he is in a whole world of pain at the moment and that is a matter for regret.  I hope he can pick himself up, dust himself off and start again at something.  I've had my fair share of failure in life, so I can sympathise, but I also know that these things happen and when they do we must carry on as best we may.  Good luck to him in that.  Like many of us, I suspect he must take the consolation of emerging from an experience sadder but wiser than when he started. 

 

Also, I cannot help but feel that it might have been better had loyal customers received some communication from the proprietor rather than find out the truth in the way it has unfolded. But, then again, he has clearly had a lot on his plate, so, perhaps, he should be forgiven for that. 

"I told you so" helps nobody.

[Edwardian]

Just now, 96701 said:

"I told you so" helps nobody.

 

Trust me, to have told you so at the time would have been a very unhealthy thing to do!

 

And who would have listened? 

 

Besides, the posthumous beatification of a failed business isn't much help to anyone either. 

 

It is a regrettable state of affairs, but it's done now.   

[96701]

Just now, Edwardian said:

 

Trust me, to have told you so at the time would have been a very unhealthy thing to do!

 

And who would have listened? 

 

Besides, the posthumous beatification of a failed business isn't much help to anyone either. 

 

It is a regrettable state of affairs, but it's done now.   

So who's going to have the last word here, then? That is the second "I told you so" that I've seen from you on this thread.

[John M Upton]

So, what happens to the tooling that exists?  Will other manufacturers be allowed to write a cheque and take it into their own ranges?  If so I would speculate we will not know who or what until they suddenly announce it as new tooling in their own ranges.

 

If I were a betting man the OO scale J94 would go to Hornby and the N scale Mermaid and Shark to Dapol.  

[Edwardian]

3 minutes ago, 96701 said:

So who's going to have the last word here, then? 

 

You, you're welcome to it. In fact, go for it.

 

I'll be content with the last laugh, happily inhabiting another topic with a pint in my hand.  Cheers!.

[96701]

Just now, Edwardian said:

 

You, you're welcome to it. In fact, go for it.

 

I'll be content with the last laugh, happily inhabiting another topic with a pint in my hand.  Cheers!.

Cheers, see you down the pub. Tomorrow evening?

[JSpencer]

2 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

So, what happens to the tooling that exists?  Will other manufacturers be allowed to write a cheque and take it into their own ranges?  If so I would speculate we will not know who or what until they suddenly announce it as new tooling in their own ranges.

 

If I were a betting man the OO scale J94 would go to Hornby and the N scale Mermaid and Shark to Dapol.  

 

That's between the liquidators and the Chinese factory. Who knows?

[Colin_McLeod]

Edwardian that is a well written post, sensitively separating the management of the company from the human story.

 

Crowdfunders have lost relatively small sums of money in the scheme of things. Money that they never intended to get back but rather to get a model train in its place.  Annoying that it is that the model never appeared, neither did the remaing invoices, so financially the crowdfunders have more money in their wallets than they would have had if the projects had continued to conclusion.

 

Dave Jones on the other hand has probably lost big time both financially and personally and I wish him well.

[truffy]

 

5 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

So, what happens to the tooling that exists?  Will other manufacturers be allowed to write a cheque and take it into their own ranges?

Presumably, that's the job of the liquidator, to maximise the value of the assets.