Lacathedrale Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 May I ask how you made/scribed the planks on your wagons? It seems you're using 40thou for the sides/backs and floor, 80thou for the headstocks and 2*40thou for the solebars, with 5 thou strip for ironwork and 20thou rod for rivets - is that correct? Are the solebar ironworks (not just the v-hangers) produced somewhere? I'd like to give it a bash myself at some point and this looks so clean and well done I feel like I could learn loads from just studying the pictures... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 23 hours ago, Lacathedrale said: May I ask how you made/scribed the planks on your wagons? It seems you're using 40thou for the sides/backs and floor, 80thou for the headstocks and 2*40thou for the solebars, with 5 thou strip for ironwork and 20thou rod for rivets - is that correct? Are the solebar ironworks (not just the v-hangers) produced somewhere? I'd like to give it a bash myself at some point and this looks so clean and well done I feel like I could learn loads from just studying the pictures... The planks were scribed using an Olfa P-Cutter. I bought mine many years ago from Squires, they are still available at a reasonable price. Simply scribe between two points using a rule as a guide. Despite its claims it does produce a very small burr which can easily be removed by rubbing a piece of wet & dry over the surface. I use 600grit, using it wet as it prevents it from clogging up. When you scribe the floor planks the floor will naturally bend due to the number and closeness of the planks. To alleviate this problem simply scribe a number of lines on the underside of the floor. The sizes you quoted are indeed what I use but don't forget that this is S Scale. I have never built a 7mm wagon but for 4mm scale I would suggest using: 30thou - sides, ends & floor. 60thou - headstocks. 2x 30thou - solebars. 5thou - ironwork. 15thou cubes - bolt heads. With regards to the ironwork on the solebars, etches can be purchased from the S Scale Society. MJT did produce an S Scale version of their rocking W irons, the etch also contained extra detail for the solebar/headstock ironwork. If you are modelling in 4mm scale I believe etches are available, I know Mainly Trains use to produce an etch for all the headstock/solebar detail but since their demise I don't know what happened to it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 24, 2019 To avoid the curling, I have taken to cheating on the floor planks, buying Evergreen pre-scribed at 0.1” sheet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Hi Scott, I'm aware this is S - thank you! I'm thinking of dabbling in it, because life isn't hard enough in 2FS 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Come on in, the water's lovely!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) In the spirit of @ScottW's original post I hope I can post my first effort here too, crossposted from Kitbuilding subforum but I'll see if we can keep it in here instead: I've tried a fair few scales and gauges since getting back into model railways about two years ago - each one with some areas that left me with some feeling of dissatisfaction - in 7mm I found the models rewarding to build but the size required for even the most simple of layouts prohibitive. I abandoned EM after seeing Peco's new track (and that it would be a pain to rewheel all the EMUs I'd just bought) in favour of OO - but with the layout down I was quickly bored with buying everything off the shelf and felt a little hemmed in. I have found the most enjoyment so far from 2mm - but I'm starting to wonder if I am cut out for it; it's been over two years and I've attempted to build four locos, none of which have come close to working as intended. The small size meant that I felt I was mostly just fighting with material tolerances and static, surface tensions, etc. than modelling. I did briefly try 3mm but found it had neither the commercial nor society support, and had the drawback that the scale would inherit some of the issues I was having with 2mm. A few emails to Stephen Rabone, Jim Guthrie and Susie Frith and now I'm a member of the society and I'm putting together my first s-scale wagon: This is the society's RCH 1907 seven plank, end door wagon. I've taken Phil Parker's lead and used a piece of rod and some strapping (with 20 thou boltheads sliced out of rod thank you @ScottW) This is my first ever compensated piece of stock actually !! The next steps are to get the bearings and brake gear sorted. I used a Garryflex block to buff out the brass and it came out a real treat - much easier than scrubbing with a fibreglass pencil. My observations so far are that the wheel standards are really fine and look great, and the size of the wagon seems just about perfect. I'm not sure how I would have done if I didn't have access to Phil's blow-by-blow build process but I guess that's just all part of the fun. EDIT: May the subject 'What's on your S-scale workbench?' would make it clear this is a community thread (in line with the 2mm and 3mm equivalents) if that is the goal? Edited October 27, 2019 by Lacathedrale 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Lacathedrale said: EDIT: May the subject 'What's on your S-scale workbench?' would make it clear this is a community thread (in line with the 2mm and 3mm equivalents) if that is the goal? Point taken and subject heading changed as suggested. Keep the posts coming, we can all learn and gain encouragement from each others progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Excellent! At the risk of monopolising this thread, I thought I'd post a small update: I know it's early days and I've not even thought about how I'm going to scratchbuild in brass (although I have ordered "Model Locomotive Construction in 4mm Scale" by Guy Williams to start to figure that out) - but this really is a lovely scale to work in so far. The brake gear is just out of shot but that's all sweated together too, and the solebars are prepped too - so it's just a case of stringing it together. I'm going to try to build this to Hall & Co (see below) which had a hinged top plank on the door: 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2019 Welcome! But use nickel silver rather than brass: easier to solder, easier to paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 6 hours ago, Lacathedrale said: I'm going to try to build this to Hall & Co (see below) which had a hinged top plank on the door: Looking at the proportions of the planks on the Hall & Co wagon it would appear that the top two planks are wider than those planks below them. The planks on the model all look to be the same width, this might cause you problems when trying to fit the hinges and ironwork to the upper plank. Unless Hall & Co also had wagons with end doors the wagon photographed was constructed with two fixed ends. Of course, you might already be aware of this and I might be teaching you how to suck the proverbial egg. If so, I do apologies. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) Not at all, I was going to go with painting it in a Madge livery of red/white/black - but I couldn't resist the link to East Croydon station. I'm quite a ways away from painting yet but I do appreciate the tip - I'm sure it would have come up when I started looking at fixing the ironwork on but that's very helpful. I guess that prototype is more suitable for a scratchbuild a little ways down the line 6 hours ago, Regularity said: Welcome! But use nickel silver rather than brass: easier to solder, easier to paint. Also super helpful, I've got some brass sheet laying around in my workshop that I may attempt to use up for something, but happy to try NS too. Either way the process will be entirely new to me having only worked in plastic and styrene to date so it's all very exciting. I am hoping to sell some bits and bobs laying around the house and sorting out a lathe I can call my own too and I'm quite looking forward to that. Edited October 27, 2019 by Lacathedrale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 On 12/09/2019 at 13:04, johnarcher said: The thing with boiler fittings is not so much not having a go, but feeling that one really needs a lathe. I'm quite happy to use a lathe, have done in the past, but nowadays I couldn't afford to buy one, and would have nowhere to put it if I could. John, I've been going through this thread again and saw your commenst about lathes being a bit expensive. You might want to look at the Fonly lathe described on the 2mm Society web site - cheap as chips and fine for doing locomotive fittings and such like. http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/fonly/fonlypt1.htm that's the opening page and there are links on the page to the full articles. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2019 On 23/10/2019 at 16:32, ScottW said: A few weeks a go this little beauty arrived on my doorstep. It was built for me by a friend and fellow member of the S Scale Society. I had just found out about this prototype, which ticked most of the boxes for me and it was under serious consideration as the subject for a change of direction, when I happened to visit our mutual friend and saw what he was doing for you! No point having two models in the same scale of a singular prototype! re Lathes. A Unimat SL is quite capable of producing boiler fittings (it’s what Guy Williams used!) and they can usually be acquired for a couple of hundred pounds or so, especially if they are lacking the drill column. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Thanks for the lathe suggestions. I will consider both, the Unimat I know of course (though not used one), the Fonly is new to me and interesting. As I said where to use it is as doubtful as cost, with the prospect of a small flat in sheltered accommodation looming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) I which case, do you have access to a vice(!)? If you have even a hand powered drill, you can clamp it in the vice, turn the large wheel with you non-dominant hand, and apply a file to a piece of metal held in the chuck with the other hand. There are also some cheap “bead making” lathes on eBay: not very big, possibly not very powerful or robust, but they are cheap and you could probably turn plastics and wood in them, e.g. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282617866526 Or even: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F174059725554 No idea how good these are, but you may see them and get ideas for making your own. Edited October 28, 2019 by Regularity Links 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Regularity said: I which case, do you have access to a vice(!)? If you have even a hand powered drill, you can clamp it in the vice, turn the large wheel with you non-dominant hand, and apply a file to a piece of metal held in the chuck with the other hand. There are also some cheap “bead making” lathes on eBay: not very big, possibly not very powerful or robust, but they are cheap and you could probably turn plastics and wood in them, e.g. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282617866526 Or even: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F174059725554 No idea how good these are, but you may see them and get ideas for making your own. Thanks for that, I hadn't heard of those bead things. Actually I had a sort of similar low-voltage mini lathe many years ago, turned tuning pegs for a lute I made on it. In fact I've had more experience of wood turning than the engineering sort, I wonder about boiler fittings turned in a hard smooth wood, like box perhaps. Might be a bit messy in a little flat, but it's a possibility I'll look at. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2019 You can always seal the wood with varnish, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 9 hours ago, johnarcher said: Thanks for that, I hadn't heard of those bead things. Actually I had a sort of similar low-voltage mini lathe many years ago, turned tuning pegs for a lute I made on it. In fact I've had more experience of wood turning than the engineering sort, I wonder about boiler fittings turned in a hard smooth wood, like box perhaps. Might be a bit messy in a little flat, but it's a possibility I'll look at. Thanks again John, Those bead lathes that Simon has pointed to are quite interesting - almost a commercial Fonly lathe. :-) You might find that putting a plate on there bed and using tools like the ones described in the Fonly lathe pages could give you quite a good setup for machining loco fittings. Jim. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) The underside of my RCH wagon, almost complete: I know the brake lever is a little short - my fault for getting too excited with the shears there! I've added a little lead ballast underneath and I'm waiting for it to cure before more tests - all wheels run smoothly while it's upside-down but there is a very subtle waddle when I push it along with my finger. EDIT: seems the compensated unit is able to rotate transversely - although 0.7mm is a great fit in the unit, the holes in the pivot hinges seem more like 0.9mm - doesn't seem like much but over 0.88" between treads, this is enough to materially change the wheelbase for that 'boat in a swell' effect. I've removed the unit and will attempt to gently ream out all holes to take a 1mm rod. Edited November 2, 2019 by Lacathedrale 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) Over the last few weeks I have managed to finish adding all the external bolt heads to the four 3 plank wagon bodies reported on in an earlier post. The internal ironwork was also fitted and the only thing left to do on the bodies is to add the end supports. Once this has been completed I'll post a picture. I have also completed the Private Trader wagon. It still requires painting which I hope to get around to in the spring when the temperature out in the shed is a little warmer and I can get the door open. All that was required to finish the wagon was to add the brake lever and ratchet. I struggled a bit with bending the brake lever to the required shape, having two attempts before I was reasonably happy. As I cocked-up the original brake lever supplied with the brake gear etch I had to use a replacement from an Ambis etch. I apologise for the quality of the photograph, the weather isn't great at the moment and it is a little dark. Edited January 23, 2021 by ScottW 8 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Scott, are you slicing those bolt heads off with a scalpel or a guillotine of some kind? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said: Scott, are you slicing those bolt heads off with a scalpel or a guillotine of some kind? I use #11 Swann Morton blade to slice them off. There’s no special technique, I just slice a load off then choose the ones I like the look of. You do have a bit of wastage but its negligible really. I don’t get too bent out of shape that they’re not perfect, once you get some paint on them you can’t tell. I suppose a guillotine would work equally as well but I haven't tried one. You could insert the plastic rod into a piece of 20thou internal diameter brass tube till the plastic rod just protrudes from the end by approx 10thou. Then slice off a piece of plastic rod by using the end of the brass rod as a cutting guide. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) I hesitate to point out that a lot of wagons had nuts on the outside, so cutting small squares from 30thou by 10thou Microstrip could be used instead. And if you really want to go to town, you could drill 10thou (0.25mm) holes in the squares and insert short bits of 10thou rod to signify the bolt ends. If you really want to be anal, some Scottish companies used hex nuts. :-) Jim. Edited November 6, 2019 by flubrush 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted November 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) Plastruct sell styrene hexagonal rod, as small as 0.5mm or 20 thou if you prefer: MRX-20P (For that matter, they do square rod in 0.3mm and 0.5mm sizes, too.) Used the next size up on a BR wagon in 1:32 scale. Edited November 7, 2019 by Regularity Links added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) The Caledonian Railway 5 plank mineral wagon complete, ready for the Paintshop. Edited January 23, 2021 by ScottW 7 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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