“FLIGHTS OF WHIMSY”

[Jason Pape]

Thank you Northroader. I love having fun in our hobby which unfortunately can be too serious sometimes. My animals would be on the roads or in fields around my railway, I agree it would be hard to fit one of my horses on a wagon or one of my cows in a cattle wagon. I’m wondering if I should widen the 7mm horse drawn vehicle kits to go with my horses or should I just widen the shafts? I’d love to design fat highland cattle they would be huge!! This is one of my cows, I think she’s a red Holstein and she’s made from paper mache. If I made a cow (and other animals) for my layout she would be 3d printed or cast.

[Jason Pape]

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I can't see a Johnson bogie single making the transition with any degree of dignity!

How about a Kirtley 2-2-2 rebuilt by Johnson they were beautiful engines.

[Jason Pape]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Now time for a flight of whimsy that I've been brewing for a while .........

 

Canals are now mainly for leisure, and people own nicely painted boats to chug up and down them in comfort.

 

Imagine instead a spindly network of 2ft gauge tramways, extending nationwide, upon which people are allowed to operate their own private trains, speed being governed-down to slow-bicycling pace, say 8mph, and all locomotive "motion" being enclosed. Trains are typically a couple of shortish bogie coaches, one the kitchen-diner-lounge, the other a couple of bedrooms and a bicycle store. Motive power is steam, battery-electric, or internal combustion engine, and because the speed is so low the power rating needs only be about 20hp. I think I'd go for a battery electric loco, with "get you home" diesel backup. Liveries would, naturally, be ornate, and a lot of polishing would go on.

 

All the advantages of a camping coach, combined with the mobility and ever-changing scenery typical of a canal holiday.

 

What do you think?

This is a wonderful idea! I’d love to see a model of a narrow gauge tramway based on a canal maybe on a towpath too. A camping coach would be great too.

[Northroader]

More thoughts on your network of tramways, Kevin, is to have it in such a remote setting that anyone on it is their own little personal bubble, and other users just don’t come along, a bit like the cartoon:

 

One from Rowland Emett, who is the main inspiration behind what I’m doing. On the matter of track layouts, it’s always a plain single track in his drawings, the only time I’ve seen a point appear it was being used to split a train longitudinally by accident.  On a small layout with really tight curves it’s always a game fitting in sidings and loops.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Northroader

[Northroader]

Here’s another worksheet drawing, and the products from it. You’ll see that I’ve moved from a Nellie chassis to a Hornby Desmond to gain an outside cylinder loco.

(sorry, loss of picture)

Edited June 26, 2023 by Northroader

[Donw]

On 01/09/2019 at 21:17, Nearholmer said:

Now time for a flight of whimsy that I've been brewing for a while .........

 

Canals are now mainly for leisure, and people own nicely painted boats to chug up and down them in comfort.

 

Imagine instead a spindly network of 2ft gauge tramways, extending nationwide, upon which people are allowed to operate their own private trains, speed being governed-down to slow-bicycling pace, say 8mph, and all locomotive "motion" being enclosed. Trains are typically a couple of shortish bogie coaches, one the kitchen-diner-lounge, the other a couple of bedrooms and a bicycle store. Motive power is steam, battery-electric, or internal combustion engine, and because the speed is so low the power rating needs only be about 20hp. I think I'd go for a battery electric loco, with "get you home" diesel backup. Liveries would, naturally, be ornate, and a lot of polishing would go on.

 

All the advantages of a camping coach, combined with the mobility and ever-changing scenery typical of a canal holiday.

 

What do you think?

 

Is this for a model or something you  are putting forward. I suppose there would be toll booths charging for various sections to raise money to maintain the lines. The low speeds would reduce the needs for signally but how could you control single line sections?

Don

[Nearholmer]

Fisticuffs.

[Donw]

This is a rather charming project and using the Highland as an inspirtion works well.  The only issue I see is getting the feel of a small railway meandering across the Highlands onto a very small baseboard. You will need some more of your magic.

 

Don

[Donw]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Fisticuffs.

 

I think I have it, a slot machine which takes the toll and issues  a Tablet authorising you into a section possibly the tablet opens gates or barriers at the start and end of the section

[Nearholmer]

If you go back up-thread, we did discuss the single-line question before ..... TBH I can't remember what/whether we concluded, but I do remember that absolute simplicity was the design objective.

[Oldddudders]

Smallbrook Studio do Emett-ish models, but in Gn15, albeit still on 16.5 track. But they also have a range of 7mm models designed for Hornby chassis. The vertical boiler loco looks fun. 

[Northroader]

4’x2’ becomes awfully cramped in G scale, just if you start placing people and buildings around before you put a Gn16.5 layout down. The Smallbrook Emetts deserve commendation, but they do need just a little bit more space than I’m giving.

Theres an enjoyable layout doing this, “Tippy Ashwood”,

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCvK1QFYbLAahLV50fj19MLg?itct=CCQQ6p4EIhMIltXVz7XY5AIV4wcGAB1DHA8Y&csn=0RyBXaW7Ac-IxwLy3rX4Ag&wlfg=true

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Northroader

[Northroader]

The most crucial job in getting this line operational is getting the couplings right for the very tight radius curves in use. My first attempt at a tight radius line was a few years ago, done really for a feasibility trial. It was O scale, 32mm standard gauge, and made to fit on a 3’ square baseboard, (915 x915mm) and it involved a circle of about 13” radius, (330mm) It worked, using ordinary 4wheel freight stock, and small tank engines, which had a bit of extra side play on carrying wheels, (but no six coupled) There were two stabling sidings off it on the outside of the curve, and where I failed was in carrying out propelling moves into these sidings, solely due to the couplers I was using. The line got scrapped, which was a pity, but the locos and rolling stock went on to get used on a branch terminus /fiddleyard set up.

 This time I was aware that the same problem would exist, and I’ve managed to get round it, so I’ll show you how.

 

This is an overhead view looking down at two coaches standing on the worst curve, about 8.5”radius (215mm). There’s an angle of around 35degrees between them, and the centre of the headstocks are displaced sideways to over the outside rail. If a coupler is mounted in the normal way you have the traction force to pull the train along, but in addition there’s an appreciable side ways component. The only thing resisting this are the wheel flanges on the inside rail. These are much lower than the headstock, so there’s quite a force trying to tip the vehicle over into the inside of the curve. You can build up the body weight as one way to counteract this force, but really the coupling needs to be mounted lower, and much closer to the axle, and also have the ability to swing in an arc.

 

 

This is a view of the underside of a loco and carriage. The couplers are the bright brass strips, I’ve left them unpainted so that they can be seen easier for now. They’re free to pivot on 8BA screws and these are much lower and closer the axles than being on the headstock centre. The strips extend beyond the headstock sufficiently to be able to swing in an arc, then bend up to a vertical face in front of the  headstock. The actual join between the two strips is done by magnetism. I had a search on the pad, and found Magnet Expert, and got a few of their disc magnets, 4mm diameter, 2mm thick. These can be stuck to the face of the coupling strip, after a thorough clean, with 24hour araldite. 

 

the order they get stuck on is a bit involved. You can take them off the pile, where they’re all clinging together, north south, north south, etc, and place them on the vehicles with a north facing out one end, and south the other.

This works until you want to turn a loco to face the other way. In the end I’ve combined them with steel discs. I get these by hacksawing across the shank of and old steel countersunk woodscrew. The locos have a magnet each end, random polarity. The coach set has three vehicles, with steel discs on the outer coach, and magnets on the centre coach. The freight set is done with a steel disc at one end and a magnet at the other, on each vehicle except the brake van, which is steel each end. In operation they take an interest in each other when they’re less than around half inch, 12mm apart, and will cling together, but it’s best to make sure they’re centred before coupling. To uncouple the vehicles are lightly prised apart with your fingers, so there’s no ability to do any remote coupling/ uncoupling as with as with the usual types of tension lock, hook and loop couplings. However where they gain over these couplings is that they make the two strips into a virtually rigid bar between the two pivot points. With the other couplers you get another join in the middle. This works in tension, but when pushing it will “knuckle” so the links in effect collapse in the middle, with all the force going out to the side, leading to a derailment. This was what was sinking me in my first layout. On this line I can cheerfully have  loco at the back of the train propelling the vehicles round all the tight bends quite comfortably.

(sorry, loss of pictures)

Edited June 26, 2023 by Northroader

[Nearholmer]

Brilliantly creative, as ever!

 

The solution you've come up with shares a fair bit with what real NG lines that had excruciatingly tight radii used. They had coupling bars that pivoted a very long way behind the headstock, some IIRC well inside the wheelbase of the vehicle, although for propelling they tended to use combined headstock and buffer, creating a radius across the entire end of the vehicle, allowing the coupling to go slack when propelling. 

 

The Guiness brewery railway in Dublin and the various 18" gauge systems in England are good places to look, and they had passenger cars too.

 

The other thing they did, where clearances for centre-swing permitted, was use bogie vehicles, because strings of tiny four-wheelers (a) can't handle every type of load, and (b) have an awfully high deadweight to load weight ratio.

 

You can see the "far back pivoted" couplers on the locos in these pictures http://www.ingr.co.uk/guinness.html

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

Thanks, Kevin, it’s the use of magnets that gave the real breakthrough, combined with the pivoting links. You’re not tempted into something like a small Irish peat railway yet? G’wan, g’wan.

[Nearholmer]

Always tempted by such things, although more in larger scales, 15mm/ft and upwards.

 

I have a 15mm/ft Bord na Mona Hunslet Wagonmaster standing on my bookshelf, but it rarely gets used because it has wheels with a really stupid tyre-profile, the flanges being razor-blade thin, and prone to pick the blades of facing points open, causing derailments. 

 

If I build any models based on 18" gauge prototypes, they would likely be 30mm/ft scale (effectively 1:10), again to fit 45mm gauge track. 

 

But, I rarely seem to get blocks of spare time long enough to allow scratch building anything much these days. And, if I do, I go cycling instead!

[Donw]

Oddly enough I do not remember any buffer locking on the clockwork trains I had when little and I had tight and very tight radius curves.  However you seem to have found a good solution.

 

Don

[Northroader]

 

If you look at an old Hornby job, Don, you’ll see that the coupling is mounted behind the buffer beam on a swivel, and the unit has the hook enclosed at each side by the other link, so that it is held in a straight line, and stays that way to form a straight line between the two pivot points without any “knuckling”. There are small buffers there, but the couplings are sufficiently long to prevent them ever touching, which is the golden rule on tight curves. You’re still getting quite an amount of sideways pull, but the old tinplate trains are sufficiently heavy to resist this, and then you’re running on standard gauge rather than narrow, which does compound the problem of sideways tipping. They may look a bit klunky, with a lot of space between each vehicle, but as you say, they do work.

(sorry, loss of picture)

Edited June 26, 2023 by Northroader

[Donw]

I am not quite sure of the geometry but I think if the pivot points for the couplings remain within the track gauge  so the closer the pivot point to the wheelset (or bogie pivot) the smaller radius can be used. Also short trains are less affected as the greater weight being pulled on long trains can pull wagons off the rails

 

Don

[Northroader]

There’s a small station appearing in the front right corner of the layout, just needing a few details, and some people, to round it off. The building is a bothy sized station, with walls of 3mm greyboard, reinforced by stripwood glued in the corners, and a ply floor and ceiling, with a thin ply roof. The walls have a cladding of Evergreen Scale Models styrene sheet, 4544 board & batten, which gives a nice accurate look. The slates are just card strips. You’ll see the station has gained a name, Lochnecky. When I was a kid reading about model railways the first pregroup one I became aware was the Inversnecky & Drambuie, a 2mm scale job by Ron Bryant for the Highland  Rly.

 http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/inversnecky/index.htm

As a homage to that, this line will be the Lochnecky & Glenbuie. I’ve placed two stirrer sticks to form an 8” grid, which gives a clue as to how much of an 0n16.5 Line can be formed as a cakebox model.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Northroader

[Nearholmer]

I am now firmly convinced that this railway existed, perhaps in a whisky induced mist..

 

It's made me think of that truly terrible Hollywood film "Brigadoon", which my brothers and I were once made to suffer as punishment for creating even more mayhem than usual round the house on a wet bank holiday. I don't think my mother really enjoyed the film herself, and Dad definitely didn't, but we had to sit still in silence throughout, and that must have been a blessed relief for her.

[Compound2632]

At least you didn't have to witness your schoolfriends' parents in an amateur production of the musical. 

[Marly51]

18 hours ago, Northroader said:

There’s a small station appearing in the front right corner of the layout, just needing a few details, and some people, to round it off. The building is a bothy sized station, with walls of 3mm greyboard, reinforced by stripwood glued in the corners, and a ply floor and ceiling, with a thin ply roof. The walls have a cladding of Evergreen Scale Models styrene sheet, 4544 board & batten, which gives a nice accurate look. The slates are just card strips. You’ll see the station has gained a name, Lochnecky. When I was a kid reading about model railways the first pregroup one I became aware was the Inversnecky & Drambuie, a 2mm scale job by Ron Bryant for the Highland  Rly.

 http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/inversnecky/index.htm

As a homage to that, this line will be the Lochnecky & Glenbuie. I’ve placed two stirrer sticks to form an 8” grid, which gives a clue as to how much of an 0n16.5 Line can be formed as a cakebox model.

Love your station building! And thank you for the link to the Inversneckie and Drambuie model - wonderful seeing a model designed to pack into guitar cases!

[Northroader]

I think you gentlemen have a much deeper cultural reservoir to dip into than me. I have this strange fancy that the song “How are things in Glocca Morra?” comes from “Brigadoon”?

Having seen the link that Angus (Argos) put in another thread regarding the Glenmutchkin Railway shares issue, I was strongly tempted to call this line Glenmutchkin, as there bits there which might apply. A really hilarious story, so here’s another link for you, Marlyn, in case you missed it.

http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/rrsources/glen6.pdf

Edited October 19, 2019 by Northroader

[Donw]

It was rather a long time ago when I saw this but seeing the term guitar cases didn't fit right. Checking the article one was a mandolin case, so that must have been the one I saw. Not as big as a guitar case. 

 

Don