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Kato announces Class 800 in N


Mike Harvey
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14 minutes ago, TomE said:

The reversed MC seating is an odd one though. Not the sort of mistake you would expect from a Japanese manufacturer. 

Is it just saving extra interior moulds though and a conscious decision to keep the price down?

 

1 hour ago, Ben A said:

moulded a different driver's end bogie to include the driver's footsteps,

As Ben noted they’ve made similar decisions elsewhere. 

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This looks to be a stunning model, and I’m sorely tempted even though it’s the wrong region and era! The colour looks fine to my eyes, especially given all the vinyls have badly faded already compared to the painted sets.

 

I do hope they do the 802 in TPE as that I won’t be able to resist even though still too modern.

 

David

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I have to say I'm thrilled with the Kato Class 800.  I'm more than happy if they've left off some of the finer details to keep the price down.  I'm probably in the minority with regard to some of the finer details and parts most people now seem to expect, more parts to fall off and break in my view, especially in N.

 

As I say I'm probably in the minority and that's certainly no criticism of some of the fantastic new models being released, but I guess all of that extra detail comes at a price.

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17 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Is it just saving extra interior moulds though and a conscious decision to keep the price down?

 

Ok, I dismantled my example, and it appears it's just a case of the MC body being on the wrong way around. It is possible to flip the body shell so the first class seating is at the first class end. 

 

I've updated my review to reflect that. 

 

Tom. 

Edited by TomE
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25 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Is it just saving extra interior moulds though and a conscious decision to keep the price down?

 

No, they've moulded the correct, unique interior with the 2+2 seating at one end and 2+1 seating at the other.

 

As is common practice though it's been designed such that it can only be assembled one way (to reduce factory assembly errors) but this puts the 2+1 seating at the 'standard' end. 

 

If the some or all of the locating clips are removed from the interior moulding it may be possible to refit it rotated by 180 degrees so it's correct, but I have not attempted this yet.

 

EDIT:  You can remove the bodyshell, rotate the entire chassis and refit the bodyshell, so the 2+1 seating is at the first class end, but that puts the underfloor equipment details at the wrong ends.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited by Ben A
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1 hour ago, Ben A said:

 

Hello all,

 

I am delighted with my Class 800. 

 

The reality is that each process in a model's production adds cost.  Kato could have painted the jumper sockets, could have fitted representations of the jumper cables, could have painted the pitot (?) on the front, could have added a photo-etched pantograph head, could have reworked the composite car interior, could have painted the end boxes silver and equipment box catches yellow, could've painted the door handles silver, moulded a different driver's end bogie to include the driver's footsteps, could've printed the fine lettering in the warning labels and the small markings along the lower edges etc etc but this would've put the price up.

 

The 800/0 (and presumably 801/1 to follow) follows their very successful 'house style' which is for well-designed and manufactured mechanisms combined with neatly and accurately moulded plastic parts and a minimum of painting steps.

 

I'd love them to have a crack at the near identical 802s in TPE livery and then perhaps the 9-car sets, with the additional cars with their inside bearing bogies.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

That's a fair assessment. I have no issues with those compromises at the reasonable price point - my only concern is with the UK being a drop in the ocean for Kato we may not see as many variations/liveries as we would if a UK based manufacturer had produced them.

 

As a case in point, the 5 car 801's you mention have different roof detail (no exhaust on the 2 and 3 vehicles) - I'm not sure if the tooling has been designed with this in mind. I've not yet had a good enough look at the undersides to compare the two and see if there are further differences there.

 

If anyone is out and about on the ECML today and fancies doing some extra research on this, there are at least 3 10-car formations out today formed of 1x 800/2 and 1x 801/1 ! 

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10 minutes ago, Ben A said:

EDIT:  You can rotate remove the bodyshell, rotate the entire chassis and refit the bodyshell, so the 2+1 seating is at the first class end, but that puts the underfloor equipment details at the wrong ends.

 

Of course, hadn't considered that. Given the seating isn't that obvious unless you get up close, its probably best to have the underframe details the correct way around. 

 

Tom. 

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Don't forget, given the well-known space constraints in Japanese homes, the vast majority of modellers out there don't have a permanent set up. That means that trains are in and out of their boxes on a frequent basis, and vulnerable details are more likely to be damaged. I have not received mine yet (I have the LNER version on order), but what I have seen from the pictures and comments this offering is very much on a par with Kato's Japanese models.

 

As an aside, I did not realise that only about 20-25% of the models are coming to the UK (quoted from Tom's review). Allowing for a small percentage going elsewhere (US, Europe), the vast majority are still going to the Japanese domestic market. I do wonder what influence that would have on any potential future models (is the driver it being a Japanese product used abroad, or a model of one of a country's premier trains, or just a way to gauge an entry to a new market?).

 

The fact the vast majority of the models are for the Japanese market, if they do pursue other British models, don't be hugely suprised if they pick one already available in N gauge (HST or Pendolino for example). Duplication of models between manufacturers is a frequent occurrence and it is not uncommon for the 'big three' Japanese manufacturers (Kato, Tomix and Micro Ace) to have the same train in their catalogues at the same time; I have examples of the EF64 locomotive from all three. That is partly down the size of the market, but also tribal affiliations to a certain manufacturer and the batch production meaning that once a product has sold out, it can be years before it returns (if at all).

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The one good thing for anyone after a TPE or Hull Trains 802 is they are both more colourful/interesting to look at, so probably more marketable outside the UK. 

 

I can't see any 9-car or 801's coming to market any time soon though, sadly.

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1 hour ago, ash39 said:

The one good thing for anyone after a TPE or Hull Trains 802 is they are both more colourful/interesting to look at, so probably more marketable outside the UK. 

 

I can't see any 9-car or 801's coming to market any time soon though, sadly.

Well they did with the Eurostar and re-issued it about five years ago so I suspect it could get an extension set if these sell well ;) 

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2 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Well they did with the Eurostar and re-issued it about five years ago so I suspect it could get an extension set if these sell well ;) 

 

Unlike the Class 373* you cannot get to a 9 car 800/1 by adding 4 coaches as the MRSB in a 5 car is a TRSB in a 9 car and the PDTRBF is not the same. It will be less of an issue for GW sets which don't have the buffet car.

 

I don't think we will need to wait the 20 years for a second batch as per the Eurostars but 2025 would not surprise me.

 

* I am aware that base 373 model +2 packs = regional Eurostar and that this had detail differences on the remaining coaches.  

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6 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

Unlike the Class 373* you cannot get to a 9 car 800/1 by adding 4 coaches as the MRSB in a 5 car is a TRSB in a 9 car and the PDTRBF is not the same. It will be less of an issue for GW sets which don't have the buffet car.

 

I don't think we will need to wait the 20 years for a second batch as per the Eurostars but 2025 would not surprise me.

 

* I am aware that base 373 model +2 packs = regional Eurostar and that this had detail differences on the remaining coaches.  

Yes I was thinking they’d issue it as linked set, one being the extension set,  not an extension to this one. 

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The slight variation in the yellow shade on the doors needn't be an issue. It appears as doors are replaced, they don't necessarily match the unit end, due to fading etc.

DSC_0616_800021_Milton_080321

I did find another photo on Flickr that was even clearer, but it had sharing disabled.

 

Jo

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On 14/05/2021 at 00:36, fezza said:

Has anyone tried them around 2nd radius curves? I'm wondering how much track relaying I'm going to have to do... 

I have tried mine on 2nd radius curves and can report that they do go round them with no problems. 

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Should there be a battery? Box by the coupling on the motor coach? Mine does not have one. 15AC264E-3D77-43EB-B024-9A67C29C9BE7.jpeg.c4534eecfbd064e3dee119552145de4b.jpeg

 

I purchased this set due to the advertising image that used Combe Viaduct, Saltash so I thought I would try to replicate the photo in model form.

 

8D12C392-64FF-46CB-8A1F-80CE23304450.jpeg.064ddd7569547ced722d54dc396625d3.jpeg

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53 minutes ago, Kris said:

Should there be a battery? Box by the coupling on the motor coach? Mine does not have one. 


There should not. One of the subtle underframe differences between the two MS coaches in the 5 car sets. 
 

Tom. 

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4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:


Isn't one a battery box and the other the toilet tanks?

The only car in the set not fitted is 812xxx, which is the motor standard that has bike space instead of a toilet. Coach B on GWR.

Looks a lot like a pair of tanks side by side in this pic. Battery boxes would have some form of access, not a hose fitting.

Class 800: LNER Discovery Museum, Newcastle Upon Tyne

And here.

http://www.dawlishtrains.com/uploads/7/2/2/3/7223531/010218-059edit1600_orig.jpg

 

Jo

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Anyone know if it will cope with the single #4 Kato unitrack crossover? Or am I going to need the slightly bizarre #6 double crossover everywhere instead? (Such a shame #6 single crossovers aren't available and two #6s don't maintain normal double track spacing). 

 

Just getting into Unitrack so still a bit unclear about the details. 

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Kato seem to be cautious in specifying the minimum radius and the straight between opposing curves. There are reports of the train passing without problem through 228.6mm radius curves (my experience too) against Kato 282mm minimum specification. The #4 has a radius of 481mm and the train will probably pass through without any problem.

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