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Kato announces Class 800 in N


Mike Harvey
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GWR set arrived and Adam’s TPE vinyls. Set duly converted but I wasn’t sure what colour was needed for the coach ends and the roofs. So, I took photos of a couple of TPE sets this afternoon at Morpeth. One set in the station and the other from a high footbridge.  Now to find matching paints.

cheers,

Ged.

 

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Just ordered the LNER one. Looking forward to it's arrival. Most major mail order firms seem to have them in.

 

The only question now is can I also justify a GWR one for my GCR London extension layout? We know GWR steam locos made it to Leicester on through workings so...

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My Azuma is due to arrive tomorrow, which is good because I'm running out of vehicles to vinyl. The guys at Hull Trains were kind enough to send my some excellent livery diagrams for the Paragon fleet, so I had to give it a try...

 

 

Hull Trains 802 (3).jpg

Hull Trains 802 (5).jpg

Hull Trains 802 (6).jpg

Hull Trains 802 (7).jpg

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Given the shortage of the DCC89 pack of decoders, but some limited availability of the motor decoder, I wonder if anyone has tried using the cab cars on DCC without a head/tail light decoder but with the little light switch in the off position.... and not fried the electrics?! 
 

I ask this because I have managed to find just one of DCC89 in stock and have now fitted it - in doing so I noticed the surprisingly ‘mechanical’ arrangement of the light on/off switch - the small cream-coloured plastic slider appears to physically separate the electrical contacts.... which makes me think that I can run the cab vehicles on DCC with the lights off (slider in the off position) and without a DCC decoder.... I’m just wondering if a) anyone else concurs my observations and b) whether anyone has given it a try?!
 

I guess the worst case scenario is that I give it a try and it fries the head/tail light electrics and that cab vehicle then has to be nominated as one of the inner cab vehicles in the ten car set - so be it I suppose.... if no one else has tried I’ll give it a go and report back! But this could also prove to be a cost effective way of chipping a ten car set for DCC since the inner cab cars wouldn’t require decoders!

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22 hours ago, cornish trains jez said:

 

You can't go wrong with anything from Kato to be honest. Always first class products.

 

 

 

Have to agree. If I was being exceptionally nit-picky, it lacks some of the finer detail printing that you find on Revolution/Farish models, but I don't think that really distracts from what is a truly excellent model. We're fortunate Kato took the plunge and decided to have a crack at a UK outline model and did it in 1:148th scale even though they'll sell far more in their 1:150th/1:160th home market. 
 

I just hope that sales are good enough to make them consider another UK outline model. 

 

1520001647_KatoClass800Y.jpg.22cd7a9df3a674441b69d9720d599546.jpg

There are a few more pics here

 

Tom.  

Edited by TomE
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23 minutes ago, TomE said:

 

Have to agree. If I was being exceptionally nit-picky, it lacks some of the finer detail printing that you find on Revolution/Farish models, but I don't think that really distracts from what is a truly excellent model. We're fortunate Kato took the plunge and decided to have a crack at a UK outline model and did it in 1:148th scale even though they'll sell far more in their 1:160th home market. 
 

I just hope that sales are good enough to make them consider another UK outline model. 

 

1520001647_KatoClass800Y.jpg.22cd7a9df3a674441b69d9720d599546.jpg

There are a few more pics here

 

Tom.  

This is dangerous, I'm a HO & OO modeller, but the more photo's I see of this Azuma, the more I want one.  I might wait and pick up one of the sets with controller/unitrack when they are released!

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1 hour ago, JR_P said:

Given the shortage of the DCC89 pack of decoders, but some limited availability of the motor decoder, I wonder if anyone has tried using the cab cars on DCC without a head/tail light decoder but with the little light switch in the off position.... and not fried the electrics?! 
 

I ask this because I have managed to find just one of DCC89 in stock and have now fitted it - in doing so I noticed the surprisingly ‘mechanical’ arrangement of the light on/off switch - the small cream-coloured plastic slider appears to physically separate the electrical contacts.... which makes me think that I can run the cab vehicles on DCC with the lights off (slider in the off position) and without a DCC decoder.... I’m just wondering if a) anyone else concurs my observations and b) whether anyone has given it a try?!
 

I guess the worst case scenario is that I give it a try and it fries the head/tail light electrics and that cab vehicle then has to be nominated as one of the inner cab vehicles in the ten car set - so be it I suppose.... if no one else has tried I’ll give it a go and report back! But this could also prove to be a cost effective way of chipping a ten car set for DCC since the inner cab cars wouldn’t require decoders!

 

For a ten-car set, you would need 1 of DCC89 and 1 of K29351 or K10950-D2. Use the plastic slider thingies to switch off the lights in the ends where they are joined.

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On 09/06/2021 at 07:35, Kris said:

 

 

For those who have purchased the GWR version with the incorrect seats contact Gaugemaster. They will supply a replacement seating moulding free of charge. I contacted them yesterday about it and they had got back to me within 30 minutes to get it sorted.

My replacement seating unit arrived on Thursday. It was a 2 minute job to put it into the coach. You really can't notice the difference especially when running but knowing that it is correct feels good. 

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47 minutes ago, TomE said:

 

Have to agree. If I was being exceptionally nit-picky, it lacks some of the finer detail printing that you find on Revolution/Farish models, but I don't think that really distracts from what is a truly excellent model. We're fortunate Kato took the plunge and decided to have a crack at a UK outline model and did it in 1:148th scale even though they'll sell far more in their 1:160th home market. 
 

I just hope that sales are good enough to make them consider another UK outline model. 

 

1520001647_KatoClass800Y.jpg.22cd7a9df3a674441b69d9720d599546.jpg

There are a few more pics here

 

Tom.  

 

But isn't the Japanese market 1:150? Or have I missed something? 

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3 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

But isn't the Japanese market 1:150? Or have I missed something? 

 
Oops, fat fingers!  Corrected. 

 

Tom. 

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Got my LNER one.

 

Managed to kill one of the lightning decoders trying to get it to work in both directions.

 

Otherwise very nice model, the DCC setup is a pain but with a bit of tweaking works.

 

For what its worth using the DC mode switches to turn off the lights seems to basically isolate them from the pickups so can't see any reason why its not safe to use until you get decoders for DCC.

 

Do wonder why they put the motor in coach B instead of C to make it and centred...

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7 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

But isn't the Japanese market 1:150? Or have I missed something? 

 

Japanese railways have a variety of gauges.  Many suburban trains are to 1:150 as this makes them correct for the 9mm track gauge, while Shinkansen trains, which run on standard gauge, are usually modelled to the correct ratio of 1:160.  The Kato Eurostar is 1:160.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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10 hours ago, Ben A said:

 

Japanese railways have a variety of gauges.  Many suburban trains are to 1:150 as this makes them correct for the 9mm track gauge, while Shinkansen trains, which run on standard gauge, are usually modelled to the correct ratio of 1:160.  The Kato Eurostar is 1:160.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

That makes sense. I always thought the Shinkansen ran on a gauge smaller than SG

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Everything about these screams quality, right down to the excellent packaging. Let's hope for more British Kato. Hopefully this will also  encourage Farish to up its game.

 

Quick pic of an Azuma on the GC...

IMG_20210613_115754285~2.jpg

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4 hours ago, fezza said:

Everything about these screams quality, right down to the excellent packaging. Let's hope for more British Kato. Hopefully this will also  encourage Farish to up its game.

 

Quick pic of an Azuma on the GC...

IMG_20210613_115754285~2.jpg

Looks like Faish are upping their game with the Class 319……through wiring so only one decoder, only one screw needs to be undone to fit the decoder, factory installed interior lights, pre-fitted loudspeaker so factory provision to easily install sound., all for not much more than the price of the Kato Class 800 after adding the cost of DCC decoders, interior lighting and a speaker.

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1 hour ago, Mike Harvey said:

Looks like Faish are upping their game with the Class 319……through wiring so only one decoder, only one screw needs to be undone to fit the decoder, factory installed interior lights, pre-fitted loudspeaker so factory provision to easily install sound., all for not much more than the price of the Kato Class 800 after adding the cost of DCC decoders, interior lighting and a speaker.

 

That's true mate but I'm not the least interested in decoders, interior lighting and a speaker for N gauge stock... especially if that pushes the price of a single unit well over £300. A lot of people resent paying for things they don't want - Kato give you a good core product at a fantastic price. Those that want bells and whistles can then add them.

 

Much depends on your priorities I guess. I am very much a railway modeller rather than a train modeller. I want to have sufficient stock to replicate a modern secondary mainline - therefore having DCC, lights and speakers is less important to me than being able to acquire a representative selection of stock for a reasonable price. Each to their own I guess.

 

(Btw I'm not against DCC and sound - I have a small selection of DCC sound items in 00)

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Provision for sound is the weak spot of the Kato 800 in that there isn't any, or at least not for the usual way that we are now accustomed to in the UK. 

 

I have seen one example fitted with sound, but it uses several loksound decoders which I can only assume are hard wired as the ESU Kato 'slip in' type are seemingly not available in the uk yet. Even then you'll still need 3 decoders to control the sound & motor functions and end lights, or perhaps even 5 if you want control of the lighting in all coaches. That makes it a fairly costly endeavour. 

 

When it comes to fitting DCC, sound or otherwise, and keeping the cost of doing so to a minimum Farish are currently at the front of the pack. 

 

Tom. 

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18 hours ago, fezza said:

A lot of people resent paying for things they don't want - Kato give you a good core product at a fantastic price.

 

Adding circuitry for lighting, DCC etc probably adds less than £5 to the RRP of each loco.

 

There's no doubting the Class 800s are a bargain but Kato have a lot of advantages going for them compared to if Dapol or Farish had produced the class 800s.

 

Kato's pricing for the class 800s is a result of the number they've built - their batches are 10-100x that than Farish and Dapol make. If your tooling cost £250000 then that's a big saving per model. Kato models also generally clip together and don't need many (if any screws) - reducing the time it takes to put each one together reducing the cost further. There's also some detail missing from the 800s - the ends of each coach are missing details I'd expect Farish or Dapol to include (again at extra cost).

 

The class 800s also have quite simple liveries compared to some that Dapol and Farish have done in the past - again allowing some cost savings.

 

All that said, I struggle to see how Farish can justify a class 170 RRP of 5p under £180 when there's no lights, no DCC provision and as a 17 year old model there should be no tooling costs left to recover.

 

Steven B.

 

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30 minutes ago, Steven B said:

All that said, I struggle to see how Farish can justify a class 170 RRP of 5p under £180 when there's no lights, no DCC provision and as a 17 year old model there should be no tooling costs left to recover.

 

Steven B.

 

Because it helps to contribute to profit targets that the company has to meet for Kader and also it helps fund future R&D into other products which will have lights, speakers, Next 18 and other improvements.

 

Every item Farish sells raises revenue and it is revenue that drives the brand forward - no revenue, no R&D, no new models.

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17 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Because it helps to contribute to profit targets that the company has to meet for Kader and also it helps fund future R&D into other products which will have lights, speakers, Next 18 and other improvements...

 

Profit targets - or a polite word for corporate greed?

 

There is nothing wrong with profits and they are essential for reinvestment, but the only reason Farish can charge these very excessive prices is lack of competition. Lights and speakers are upsells - most modellers I know don't want them. How many locos on a average layout have sound? 5 per cent or fewer? 

 

And it's not just about the volume of sales.

 

Dapol can deliver good quality at sensible prices. Their HST  comes in at around £175 and most of their 2 car DMUs lower than £130. Farish new 4 car EMU is hitting £329 RRP so even with discounts will be over £100 more than the Dapol HST of equivalent size. 

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