Ocean Quay (Stonehouse, Plymouth)

[KeithMacdonald]

I fancy Ocean Quay as a modelling opportunity. Originally built by the LSWR to compete with GWR for ocean liner passenger traffic.

 

I've not seen it done by anyone else (yet?), and I'm wondering where to find any pictures of the quayside station.

 

There's a few pics of the Stonehouse branch from Devonport station here on this Cornwall Railway Society page.

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/millbay-friary--stonehouse-branch.html

 

But no pics there of the station or quay themselves. The only pic I've found of the station so far is very grainy and small / far away.

 

https://wiki2.org/en/Ocean_Quay_railway_station+Newton#Ocean_Quay

 

 

Anyone found anything better?

 

Here's what the track looks like:

 

 

 

[wiggoforgold]

Is there anything useful to you in Bernard Mill"s "Backtracking around -Millbay, Saltash and the Tamar"? There's before and after pics around Stonehouse Pool, but the "before " pics are about 1965 so possibly too late for you.

Alex

[RailWest]

I think the branch may be covered in the updated edition of "The Okehampton Line" from Irwell Press, but as I only have the original edition I can't say for sure how much detail is there.

[Mallard60022]

9 minutes ago, RailWest said:

I think the branch may be covered in the updated edition of "The Okehampton Line" from Irwell Press, but as I only have the original edition I can't say for sure how much detail is there.

I could check if the OP consider that worthwhile.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 06/10/2019 at 22:44, wiggoforgold said:

Is there anything useful to you in Bernard Mill"s "Backtracking around -Millbay, Saltash and the Tamar"? There's before and after pics around Stonehouse Pool, but the "before " pics are about 1965 so possibly too late for you.

Alex

 

Thanks Alex, just found a copy on Amazon and bought it.

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I could check if the OP consider that worthwhile.

 

Yes please!

[Mallard60022]

12 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Yes please!

My version is 2001 and hardly has anything of use sadly; couple of pics of stuff at the top end and nothing down at the Quay....sorry.

Plymouth Archives are in transit at the moment (moving to a refurbished building), but they have lots of stuff that I see on a FB page Old Plymouth in Pictures?

I have seen some pics of the bottom end of the line in the past but I can't remember which book. I will have a browse over the next few weeks and if I see something I'll try to get back here.

[Oldddudders]

Ian Lane's Plymouth Steam 1954-63 includes a shot by Ian Markey of a Plymouth Railway Circle excursion at Stonehouse Pool 14.5.60, but it's just a buffer-beam shot of an O2 with brakevans. Do other pics from this excursion exist? 

[KeithMacdonald]

A copy of Bernard Mill"s "Backtracking around -Millbay, Saltash and the Tamar" has arrived, and pages 135 to 147 cover the Stonehouse branch, or what remained of it when Bernard got there with his camera in 1965. The rusting track was still in place, but very little else. Page 146-147 just about show the edge of what was the passenger platform.

 

Perhaps that means I should use some "creative interpretation" and use some SR-style station platforms, buildings and canopies?

[KeithMacdonald]

I've just read the small print on that Wiki image, and as it says "This work is in the public domain", I'm taking the liberty of reposting a copy here ;-)

(with acknowledgements to the original sources. Railway Magazine, May 1904)

 

Very grainy picture I know, but has anyone seen any model buildings or kits that look similar? The best I've found so far is Scale Scenes new Island Platform.

https://scalescenes.com/product/r004a-island-platform-building/

 

 

[Mallard60022]

I have found two very clear pictures of Ocean Quay station + some interior shots and some good info about the branch. It is in the Irwell Press book The Okehampton Line....The Southern Railway Route between Exeter, Tavistock and Plymouth (first published 2001)

I am sure a PM communication with pics is permitted as long as the pics do not go into the public domain.

Phil

[KeithMacdonald]

^

That would be much appreciated.

[KeithMacdonald]

I've had an idea.

 

Just suppose, c.1930, that the Richmond Walk Quarry was active long after other quarries in and around Plymouth were being exhausted. And while they were quarrying they found an incredibly rare and valuable form of granite. Known, err, as Dumnonian, after the earliest known inhabitants of Devon. They built a few quarry sidings and kept quarrying by tunnelling into the hillside (tunnels in brown).

 

 

Of course, all the spoil from the quarry had to go somewhere so they widened Richmond Walk northwards alongside the Tamar, below Mount Wise. What was Blagdons Yard slipway was filled-in, and extra deep-water docks were made, with one of the tunnels emerging there as well.

 

 

Come 1940-1945, the extra tunnels under the hillside were much used by the railway for HM Navy.

 

After 1945, a bit of a decline, but then (hurrah!) the Mount Wise Military Docks were converted into a small container port for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and Ro-Ro Sealift operations. After 2000-ish, security was relaxed and there's civilian container traffic there now as well.

 

Good news chaps! Ocean Quay Station is still active and attracts many Heritage Steam Specials, GWR Railcars, etc, with unusual ships (for the area) like a Clyde Puffer. Lots of unusual freight passes through on its way to Mount Wise Docks. Much of it waiting its turn in the old quarry sidings.

 

Some say that there is another still-secret railway tunnel into Devonport. Rumours of another GWR Strategic Steam Reserve in the Dumnonian Tunnels (like Box Tunnel) are still being denied, despite the late-night arrivals of best Welsh Anthracite.

 

Construction of the OO-gauge version is due to commence c. September 2020 when the new attic room becomes available.

[brianusa]

Nice fun type scenario Keith. Lotsa action although the Heritage Steam Specials may have a hard time these days! 

    Brian.

[KeithMacdonald]

Breaking News!

At the AGM of the East Wiltshire Railway Museum (EWRM) held in my lounge this afternoon, it was unaminously decided by the shareholders (me) that the EWRM should relocate to the Richmond Walk Quarry Sidings, and to do so at the earliest opportunity.

That means that, after the acquisition and installation of appropriate infrastructure, an eclectic mix of locos (steam, diesel and electric), coaches and rolling stock will be appearing (subject to the approval of the EWRM's Financial Director).

It might become necessary to rename the EWRM to something more appropriate to suit the new location. All suggestions (or bids for the naming rights) will be gratefully received.

 

Suggestions are also welcome for the appropriate infrastructure, starting with the rebuilding of Ocean Quay Station, possibly in a ScaleScenes "heritage" style?

[jcredfer]

HMS Hades, aka HMNB Richmond Walk.

 

Those nearby tunnels [real and imaginary] might make lovely places for hiding all sorts of stuff......  

 

Regards

Julian

[KeithMacdonald]

38 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

HMS Hades, aka HMNB Richmond Walk.

 

Those nearby tunnels [real and imaginary] might make lovely places for hiding all sorts of stuff......  

 

Regards

Julian

 

"HMS Hades" - I like that. It's #1 on the list (so far).

 

News must travel fast, because I've just received a job application. It's from Chief Petty Officer Pertwee, and he's offering to manage the tunnels for free on behalf of HM Navy Catering. Hmm, I wonder if that's the same CPO Pertwee we saw over at Milton Quay?  I think I'll put that in the pending tray and come back to it later, when we've appointed a Commanding Officer...

[RailWest]

SOuth DEvon Museum perhaps ? :-)

[Oldddudders]

58 minutes ago, RailWest said:

SOuth DEvon Museum perhaps ? :-)

i'll think about that one Gomorrah.

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

"HMS Hades" - I like that. It's #1 on the list (so far).

 

News must travel fast, because I've just received a job application. It's from Chief Petty Officer Pertwee, and he's offering to manage the tunnels for free on behalf of HM Navy Catering. Hmm, I wonder if that's the same CPO Pertwee we saw over at Milton Quay?  I think I'll put that in the pending tray and come back to it later, when we've appointed a Commanding Officer...

 

Those were wonderful radio, the like of which has seldom been equalled since and never beaten.

 

Julian

[lash]

17 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

"HMS Hades" - I like that. It's #1 on the list (so far).

 

News must travel fast, because I've just received a job application. It's from Chief Petty Officer Pertwee, and he's offering to manage the tunnels for free on behalf of HM Navy Catering. Hmm, I wonder if that's the same CPO Pertwee we saw over at Milton Quay?  I think I'll put that in the pending tray and come back to it later, when we've appointed a Commanding Officer...

Pertwee has not been seen on Milton Quay for some months , the local constabulary apparently had an interest in his activities and he was last seen dodging the Naval Provost before volunteering for a posting east of  Suez. Wouldn’t be surprised if he pitched up in Devonport though promoting his new oriental import business . 

[Siberian Snooper]

On 30/12/2019 at 00:14, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Siberian Snooper
Sorry, missed the original point.

[jcredfer]

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

 

That's Plymouth for you...

 

 

Julian

 

[KeithMacdonald]

And just when I'd convinced myself I'd made up a good story, I found that not only is it true and well documented for years, but Visit Plymouth is also promoting it as a tourist attraction!

 

Quote

Close by, on the site of Blagdon’s Boatyard, were Victoria Cottages. This was where Charles Darwin lodged before embarking on HM SBeagle in  1831. The Dockyard defences and the military have shaped the shoreline landscape, - with a network of Second World War tunnels and a Cold War nuclear bunker cut into the rock and und er Mount Wise.

 

Ref Devonport Heritage Trail

https://www.visitplymouth.co.uk/dbimgs/devonport heritage trail mountwise.pdf

 

Subterranea Britannica has a very good article on Mount Wise Plymouth Maratime HQ, and everything buried underneath it!

 

Quote

By 1942 planning for D Day was well underway. An outcome of this was the requirement for a series of protected tactical communications facilities at a number of strategic locations to serve all allied commitments. At Mount Wise this resulted in the construction of a series of underground tunnels beneath the lawn of Admiralty House by 695th Artisan Works, 172nd & 178th Tunnelling Companies, RE and 99th & 828th Pioneer Companies, PC. Blasting began on 15th December 1942 (disturbing the C in C in the adjacent Admiralty House) however technical problems and some minor subsidence of the Admiralty House lawn, temporarily stopped work during March 1943.

 

That "some minor subsidence of the Admiralty House lawn" was a polite euphamism for some bloody big holes in the cricket pitch! There might be a war on, but ye gods, some things are sacred.
 

Quote

 

Work was recommenced on construction and fitting out until the spring of 1944 when the tunnels finally became available. Known as the Plymouth Underground Extension (PUE) it held radio, telephone, telegraph and voice frequency (vf) terminals connected to, among others:

• Army Command and District HQ’s
• Adjacent US Army/Navy HQ’s
• Surrounding naval Sub HQ’s
• Combined HQ’s Portsmouth/Western Approaches
• RAF Command & Group HQ’s
• RAF SW & NW Switching Centres
• Trafalgar & Rotunda SAC exchanges in London
• Government Communications Centres at Cheltenham/Bletchley Park
• US Transportation Centre, Plymouth
• SW Airfields, Radar & Radios Stations
• City & County Police/Fire/Civil Defence Controls

 

 

Plenty more where that came from. :-)

 

Where are the entrances?

 

Quote

The main entrance to the PUE was at the south west corner of Hamoaze House, now a non residential support centre. This tunnel has been blocked at both ends and is partially back filled. Of the four remaining ways into the tunnel complex only two are now accessible, one being the previously mentioned access through the MHQ. The other three access points are on the foreshore, two in Blagdon’s Boat Yard (which was built on spoil excavated from the tunnels) and one in Richmond Walk. One of the adits in Blagdon Yard is retained for emergency egress and has a securely locked and alarmed with a grilled gate. A stone tablet above the portal is inscribed to the Tunnelling and Pioneer Companies that excavated the tunnels. The other two foreshore adits have been permanently blocked but are still used for ventilation.

 

Ref Subterranea Britannica

https://www.subbrit.org.uk/sites/mount-wise-plymouth-maratime-hq/

 

i'm still going to call it "HMS Hades" - thanks to Julian (hat tip)

[jcredfer]

Interesting history of subterranean Plymouth, with so many units involved.  It would be difficult to believe that such assets passed into cobweb endowed oblivion - at least I very much hope not.

 

I believe that Hades included the fires of hell [amongst other delights], whilst history relates that our Navy could also unleash hellfire of it's own.  I assume that little lot would have been stored in places well out of the way of public view and away from those foreign nationals with interests not particularly friendly to ours.  Perhaps such subterranean assets might also provide suitable hoarding space for a number of the RN versions of "hell visited upon our opponents", for use in times of adversity?  Such a place might well have earned a name with a suitable RN humour reference to it.   

 

Julian