'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Miss Prism]

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I think you are rather mistaken here, if anything it provides an excuse not to build a more accurate model from a kit. An inaccurate coach with a accurate representation of a pre-group livery will satisfy a large proportion of modellers. The livery will be more obviously "right" to many people than the panelling, underframe details, etc. and that will satisfy their demand for pre-grouping models

 

What Hatton's are doing is reacting to a demand for pre-group carriages to match the OO locomotives that introduced over the last few years. There is some irony in that these generic carriages, which in the case of the LNWR ones look little like the prototypes, are being eagerly welcomed to run with locomotive models which have been made to much higher levels of prototype accuracy. But then, this is, for many, a loco centric hobby and carriages and wagons are less improtant so something that looks about right will do.

 

Those that want to model a particular pre-group railway with any degree of accuracy, will still need to make their own models from the wealth of kits that are available.

Sorry I don't think that is the case, those who really want finescale pre-grouping carriages for their chosen era/company will continue to do what they have always done quite expertly, these coaches allow a larger proportion of the hobby to access coaches similar to the period without having to resort to building kits, painting and lining which may be beyond their skill (me, for example).

[JSpencer]

7 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

Well, indeed. Certainly an interesting announcement. Makes me somewhat wish I'd bought a Stirling Single, now! Although my bank account is probably glad I didn't.

 

Other than a BR departmental version I've got no use for any of these right now. But I've always had a bit of a hankering to do a pre-grouping layout of some sort. These would be great for a minimim space rural BLT. Maybe that's a future project, when these are on the shelves.

Locomotion have talked about doing coaches for their GNR single. Now my guess is something actually accurate for the loco in question, normally in association with Rails/Dapol/Rapido. But does Hattons generic GNR coaches now satisfy this demand? I guess for some yes, others no.

 

The 21st century generic 4 wheel and 6 coach has arrived. How long before the 21st century generic clerestory?

 

The idea seems to work well on these  older types. Most preserved examples do not have original chassis. Info is somewhat more scant than later breeds. These could end up being the modern marmite of coaches, people will love or hate them. But they still look the part compared to those Hornby 4 wheelers. 

[Martin S-C]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Of course what comes next is Clerestory coaches.......

Hattons -could we maybe have a clerestory roof option?

This is a wonderful announcement. I have been suggesting this kind of thing for ages. The long life and many uses to which the old Hornby 4-wheeler and Ratio GW 4-wheel kits get used over and over shows what a huge market there is for a generic pre-grouping coach.

 

Well done Hattons.

[Budgie]

I notice that none of the South Wales companies is as yet on the list. I would like to see the Taff Vale Railway and Rhymney Railway up there.

[Jammy2305]

An excellent announcement that will hopefully raise the profile of modelling the pre-grouping era.

 

Just one question though: was GER coach brown (applied to older teak stock as it became scruffy with age) as dark as the "chocolate" described?

[Budgie]

I notice that none of the South Wales companies is as yet on the list. I would like to see the Taff Vale Railway and Rhymney Railway up there.

[sem34090]

Well, some SR ones would do me nicely, plus some to repaint into a fictional livery. The SR ones would be representing ones previously owned by a fictional company.

 

The chassis might be very useful to provide a reliable base for more accurate bodies, perhaps?

Edited October 8, 2019 by sem34090

[Phil Parker]

One thing no-one has considered so far is treating these as raw materials. Obviously, we won't know until we see the models, but will there be a market for replacement etched sides a la Comet models?

 

Personally, I fancy making a grounded carriage cottage out of one. Where's the option without chassis @Hattons Dave? ;-)

[sem34090]

That'd be good - the ability to buy bodies and chassis separately for various modelling projects.

[Miss Prism]

What are the dimensions over the upper and lower footboards?

 

[wombatofludham]

I suppose it comes down to two different markets:  those for whom modelling is a challenge, and are happy to work on kits, and produce elaborately lined models of the correct prototype, and those who want to have a gentler approach to the hobby and are happy to have a compromise that looks the part.  Let's face it, the number of people who can remember the actual coaches and their details running in service are vanishingly small, so most modellers are relying on published data, which can vary in accuracy or availability.

Where I suspect Hattons have hit the mark is in the "returning modeller" market, the empty nesters who now have time, space and money to return to railway modelling.  They could be tempted into doing a model of a pre-grouping layout by the ready availability of nicely modelled, keenly priced "old fashioned" coaches that look more convincing than the Hornby 4 wheeler or the Triang born Clerestories, but don't fancy re-purposing the Ratio kits which whilst relatively straightforward to build, will be a nightmare to paint into an elaborate Edwardian lined livery.  They may want to spend more time building the scenery, or operating the layout, rather than spending hours learning how to use a bow-pen or fine brush to master lining.  For them something that looks the part, especially as chances are they never saw the real LNWR, GWR or GNR six wheelers in real life, could just be the spur to try and create a layout that they are happy with and enjoy.

Neither approach is more correct: purists already have to kit build and will continue to do so, and their enjoyment is the challenge of creating an accurate representation, but the enjoyment will be the same as the newbie who wants to do something that looks right even if the coaches are more "impressionist" than "Dutch master". 

[Nick C]

What a brilliant idea - as others have said it opens up a lot of possibilities for earlier periods, which may well encourage people to then get into kit building in order to get more accurate stock (start with the generic stuff to get going, gradually replace as your skills improve). It's certainly put me off before - I'd like to make some earlier stock to allow flexible periods on my layouts, but I've yet to successfully complete a brass coach, and the idea of full lining makes me nervous too...

 

One thing I'd certainly like to see is unlettered versions - especially unlettered teak, as that was used by a number of smaller companies*, and is fairly hard to paint yourself, for those of us with more 'average' skills.

 

*let's face it, there can't be enough people wanting to model the Isle of Wight Central Railway to justify a full production run...

[PaulRhB]

Well I’ve ordered teaks for my father to go with his Single, LNWR for my coal tank and please do the Precedent to go with them  I’ll buy two or possibly more!!!

Looking forward to metropolitan too  

I won’t build a layout specifically for these but it allows me to what if occasionally and have a bit of fun while I devote the modelling time to the main stock correct for the layout. So no I probably wouldn’t buy an etch kit and paint it as this is a more whimsical sideline but equally if more locos became available for LNWR I’d probably consider a layout and then move to more accurate models later. I don’t see others losing out because I can’t afford someone else building them and currently concentrate on building stuff in larger scales not OO. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by PaulRhB

[Rowsley17D]

Just pre-ordered the four unlit LMS six wheelers. Now I'll need to order another Midland 1P tank.

[Miss Prism]

I accept these are generics, but what is the point of incorporating ducket panelling if there isn't a ducket?
 

 

Edit: the presence of duckets was confirmed later in the thread, so the above comment is redundant

Edited October 14, 2019 by Miss Prism

[Martin S-C]

In their suggested coach rakes list is this. An LNWR Precedent 2-4-0. All the other suggested coach rakes use locos currently available RTR.

 

It would make a lot of sense for Hattons to produce a pre-grouping loco to go with these coaches for which we currently have no equivalent.

 

Maybe we will find out more at Warley?

[Hitchin Junction]

I could see quite a considerable a market for the chassis without the bodies as bases for home made 3D printed bodies, or special etched sides. That way the "exact" models could be available for those who want to be historically "perfect" or have "unique" models, without the engineering hassle of making precision chassis.

 

Tim

[woodenhead]

So yesterday I was considering which OO gauge locos and stock I might be selling first on an Ebay £1 offer.

 

Today, I am imagineering a small through station, island platform, junction at one end, single line the other, two short turntable fiddleyards and some GW and some SR 4/6 wheelers to go with my Gate Stock and a couple of Maunsell LSWR rebuilt stock.

 

What a difference a day makes...

[Dunsignalling]

4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I am sure purists would like accurate representations of each company but I like this announcement very much.

 

Really good product, looking forward to this.

 

Does this hint perhaps at where Hattons might see itself making locomotives - pre-grouping

 

 

Only criticism I have is that there's no 6-wheel full brake in there.

 

John 

[woodenhead]

Just now, Martin S-C said:

In their suggested coach rakes list is this. An LNWR Precedent 2-4-0. All the other suggested coach rakes use locos currently available RTR.

 

It would make a lot of sense for Hattons to produce a pre-grouping loco to go with these coaches for which we currently have no equivalent.

 

Maybe we will find out more at Warley?

Oi, that's my theory, see page one.

 

Do keep up Martin   SECR D as well in that list.

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

Only criticism I have is that there's no 6-wheel full brake in there.

 

John 

Hattons Dave did indicate they would consider these if there is demand in later phases.

[PaulRhB]

2 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

In their suggested coach rakes list is this. An LNWR Precedent 2-4-0. All the other suggested coach rakes use locos currently available RTR.

Not seen the SECR D class rtr? 

 

But the Precedent is one I’ve hoped would enter the NRM range and a genuine favourite  

[Jammy2305]

45 minutes ago, jamesC37LG said:

An excellent announcement that will hopefully raise the profile of modelling the pre-grouping era.

 

Just one question though: was GER coach brown (applied to older teak stock as it became scruffy with age) as dark as the "chocolate" described?

 

In answer to my own question, from Hattons on Facebook:

 

"It will be a mid-brown with a hint of crimson. Chocolate is a contemporary name for the colour."

 

I believe, therefore, it will be a colour similar to that used on GE 140 on the Mid Suffolk. 

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, Hitchin Junction said:

I could see quite a considerable a market for the chassis without the bodies as bases for home made 3D printed bodies, or special etched sides. That way the "exact" models could be available for those who want to be historically "perfect" or have "unique" models, without the engineering hassle of making precision chassis.

 

Tim

 

Define "considerable".

 

I was joking about being able to buy a body without the chassis. If I want one, I'll buy one and flog the underpinnings if required. Remember that selling a chassis on its own will need a special box, extending one of the production runs and all the hassle of another product line in the range that won't shift as fast as the others. How many people are really going to want to buy one to put a 3D printed body on top that they will have to paint? I doubt sales would hit 3 figures.