Grounded Vans

[DonB]

In RMweb3 there was a topic with the above title. The last post in the topic prior to the change-over was a Horsebox of (as yet) unidentified origin. First thoughts were that it was a GWR van, but that was discounted on two points, GWR Horse boxes didn't have a tumble-home side, and had a small extra panel at the end beyond the groom's doorway and window, compared with the photos below:- (taken on a rare day with clear sky and blazing sunshine)

 

I'm told that "it was there when we bought the house 25 years ago". Any views on it's origin? I have not yet found a picture of a LMS Horse Box.

[jamie92208]

My first thoughts are that is it a pre grouping design. It is si milar to several pre grouping horse boxes that I've got models of but I can't be sure without some research. Do you have any idea how long it is.

 

Jamie

[Adam]

Definitely an LMS design, apparently not recorded as part of the VCT survey however. Like these:

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5627

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=4639

 

Adam

[DonB]

Jamie, Looks like it's a LMS Horse box, it's very similar to the recorded H/Bs listed by Adam.

It is approx 22ft long (+ / - 2" )

 

Adam. Thanks for the identification and for the link, another item for my ever expanding "favourites" file! I'll contact VCT to see if they are interested in doing a survey, as I don't feel competent enough to complete their survey form. I could see no vestiges of paint on the body, although the outside handles, bolts and grabrails all seemed to be present.

 

Edit @ 2020... I also asked the Midland Railway Society if they could help identify this vehicle, and today got the following...

(quote/)

from Peter Witts, the Midland Railway Society's Information Officer...

 

I now have had more time to look at these pics and can now say it is not a D400 but the LMS design that closely followed the design of the Midland vehicles except that those built from 1929-1938 had horizontal panelled sides that would be the case for this vehicle.

All these horse boxes were built at Derby.

Regards

Peter (end quote/)

Edited November 1, 2009 by DonB

[DonB]

I have now found the drawing of the LMS Horse Box in Nov.1976 Model Railways, "source:- official drawings Nos.6291 & 6525 for Diagram 1956",and "with modifications based on photographs"

The grounded body matches this drawing.

The drawing is within an article by Don Rowland detailing his three 4mm model variations, (I assume 16.5mm gauge, although not stated in the article).

An interesting feature of the prototype was modification to the standard brake gear to avoid fouling the drop-door stops.

[dolland]

Not sure whether this has been posted before, but I think its worth including in this thread. I discovered it earlier today

 

http://weburbanist.com/2009/10/29/all-aboard-clever-recycled-train-car-homes-offices-hotels/

[Stubby47]

These two vans (or what used to be vans) are in a field just off the A39 Green Lane in Truro.

 

No details of what they were, as the undergrowth is more overgrowth.

 

 

Stu

[Poor Old Bruce]

This Midland/LMS brake van is at Newhaven (that's the Derbyshire one between Ashbourne and Buxton)

 

 

 

 

The first reaction is that it is similar to the Parkside ducket-less kit but it has the flush end boards of the ducketted one.

[Baby Deltic]

There a loads of grounded van bodies just outside Thetford on the B1088, between Thetford and Ixworth. They are being used as pig shelters, so I would be a bit wary about going off and photographing them.

[Leicester Thumper]

you shall find that the horsebox mentioned at the top is the same as the 1960's/1970's Tri-ang model, not to be confused with the wrenn version, but the tri - ang version was based on the LMS design and was numbered B547 on the model. hope this helps

 

Best regards,

[k9-70]

A pair of grounded box vans at the north end of Doncaster station 21-07-1987

 

K9-70

[Poor Old Bruce]

you shall find that the horsebox mentioned at the top is the same as the 1960's/1970's Tri-ang model, not to be confused with the wrenn version, but the tri - ang version was based on the LMS design and was numbered B547 on the model. hope this helps

 

Best regards,

 

Wot!!! Plastic with a big hole in ther floor

 

Seriously, I think we have been round this paticular lump before on the old site. The Tri-ang one was based on a GWR example with flat sides and tumblehome ends, not the other way round as pictured.

 

The Wrenn HB was initially a Hornby Dublo Product based on a BR prototype.

 

Richard

[Poor Old Bruce]

Spotted this one in a field near Longcliffe (C&HPR):

 

 

 

Don't remember seeing it before. It looks like a BR Standard van except for the cross bracing on the ends which could suggest GWR but it appears to have been recently re-clad with plywood retaining all the original ironwork.

 

Richard

[Fat Controller]

Spotted this one in a field near Longcliffe (C&HPR):

 

 

 

Don't remember seeing it before. It looks like a BR Standard van except for the cross bracing on the ends which could suggest GWR but it appears to have been recently re-clad with plywood retaining all the original ironwork.

 

Richard

That would be a typical Great Western rebuild, retaining little beyond the number from the original....When was the photo taken- we've got more snow down here than that!

[Poor Old Bruce]

When was the photo taken- we've got more snow down here than that!

29 December 2009 at 11:26am i.e. before the snow, there's quite a bit up there now and I wouldn't get near it!

 

Richard

[Pennine MC]

The roof profile looks GW-ish, if it's been totally reclad it could actually be an early Mink, a la Coopercraft. The clincher would be if it's 16'6 long (but dont go and measure it, yet...)

[Poor Old Bruce]

Photographed this Midland Railway 10T van at Matlock Bath this morning.

Best (only!) shots I could get through the fence.

 

Richard

[keefer]

went for a walk at lower largo the other day. parked up in the car park at station park, which was the actual location of the station, then followed the trackbed path eastwards.

just outside of largo i noticed what i thought was a grounded van - but looking through the topic at the old site:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40339&hilit=grounded+vans&start=25

 

Young Fido has a similar one in his 2nd. pic and he identifies it as a container.

my one has similar end and side, but in the last photo, it seems the other end has a corrugated panel - presumably these had doors at both ends?

if it is a container, i take it it's one of the detatchable containers from the '60s?

 

taken at the limit of my coolpix's digital zoom, from the old trackbed. the van is on private property and didn't want to bother the ownwers

[Poor Old Bruce]

That is definitely a container, it has the rubber bumpers at each corner and the side braces going from the bottom corners inwards and upwards. Your photos show that the other end is corrugated, so doors each side and one end only.

 

Richard

[60B]

Found this in Boat of Garten the other week. It looks like a horsebox though looks like a replica:

 

[avonside1563]

Photographed this Midland Railway 10T van at Matlock Bath this morning.

Best (only!) shots I could get through the fence.

 

Richard

 

Is it a 10T or an 8T? We have a similar body at Foxfield of an 8T Midland van

 

http://homepage.ntlw...d/mr8tonvan.htm

 

A few other grounded bodies at Foxfield also, if anyone fancies some 12" : 1ft modelling we are always looking for people willing to take on a good project!

[Poor Old Bruce]

Is it a 10T or an 8T? We have a similar body at Foxfield of an 8T Midland van

I was assuming the van at Matlock Bath was a 10T job based on my experience of Slater's kits and a (probably insufficient) knowledge of the 'Midland Wagons' books. If there were 8T vans to a similar body style then I don't know. Sorry.

 

Richard

[DonB]

Took me a while to find this thread again! I missed the posts since February.

Out today I passed a little enclave of vans about 6 miles from the centre of Derby, which I have been intending to capture for a while.

First a shot though a field gate at the max. zoom on my 4 megapixel Olympus, cropped to just the 3 vans.

I was bold enough to venture into the (very mucky!) farm yard and ask permission to photograph ..."Yes, with pleasure" !!! There were 2 more vans hidden in the yard!

I was told that they were bought about 1948/50 "when the railways were getting rid"

Any hopes of identification??

Vans 1 (almost hidden),2, and 3 from left to right..

 

With permission, squeezed through to get van 1 from the farm side (in use as a loose box with resident calves)

 

Van 2 from the farm side Could not get nearer due to boggy ground. (Van 3 also unapproachable.)

 

In the yard, Van 4 in use as a garage

 

In the yard, Van 5 used as a loose box with calves resident.

 

(Edit) vans 3 and 5 appear similar, with slatted sides, are they vans intended for the brewery trade?

Edited June 29, 2010 by DonB

[pete_mcfarlane]

My go at identifying some of them:

 

Van 1 could be LSWR? Certainly they used the X shaped bracing each side of the door.

Van 2 is GWR judging by the twin end vent hoods.

Van 5 has sides like an LMS Diagram 1817 beer van, but these had slatted ends (at least when built). I suspect the vertical end planking is a replacement job. Good find!

[craigwelsh]

...and here is three from a field in the shadow of Ratcliffe power station, near East Midlands Parkway station

That looks like the more successful type of BR pallet van, possible the pallet shocvan with the sliding door rather than the one more familiar from the main batch and Parkside kit (1/211).