S&DJR Wagon Loads

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

I have spotted that you can see the photo at https://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/history-of-highbridge-to-be-revisted-in-nostalgic-afternoon-of-reminiscing/ , although that is no clearer than the version in the book.

 

Any idea of the date? It has an "early" look to it.

 

Zooming in, I might almost convince myself that the second wagon carries the initials M R!

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Zooming in, I might almost convince myself that the second wagon carries the initials M R!

The righthand letter looks to be an E to me, the lefthand one is something dense, could be N or G. Either way, it suggests a pooled wagon and thus a 'tween wars date.

Edited February 24, 2022 by bécasse

[phil_sutters]

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Any idea of the date? It has an "early" look to it.

 

Zooming in, I might almost convince myself that the second wagon carries the initials M R!

Chris Handley thinks that it was shortly after WW1. Julia was reboilered in 1920 and this berth was used to lay up ships needing attention. There is another photo of her with the boiler that had been repaired in Highbridge Works and a rail-mounted crane ready to lift it back on board. It had a 10ft 6in inside diameter so it must have required out of gauge arrangements to get it across the Bristol and Exeter line and through Highbridge S&D station.

Edited February 25, 2022 by phil_sutters

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Chris Handley thinks that it was shortly after WW1. Julia was reboilered in 1920 and this berth was used to lay up ships needing attention. 

 

4 minutes ago, bécasse said:

The righthand letter looks to be an E to me, the lefthand one is something dense, could be N or G. Either way, it suggests a pooled wagon and thus a 'tween wars date.

 

Does fit. Could be NE; equally, an ordinary open wagon lettered MR would be pooled. 

[phil_sutters]

I think a G would be more rounded. As stated above, railway company wagons from all over England and at different periods can be seen in the book's photos, so NE or GE would be entirely feasible.

The first wagon could also be BRAYS  DOWN  COLLIERY, with the middle line No. XX and RADSTOCK  the usual tare and load ratings below.

[Compound2632]

If the date had been pre-Great War, I would have held out for MR but since it's later, it could really be any two-letter combination though i note that the letters would appear to take up three planks of a five-plank side, which I think rules out NE but not (L)NE(R)!

[RailWest]

On 24/02/2022 at 17:42, phil_sutters said:

I have spotted that you can see the photo at https://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/history-of-highbridge-to-be-revisted-in-nostalgic-afternoon-of-reminiscing/ , although that is no clearer than the version in the book.

The second photo is the one on which I based my model Highbridge - C. box, although I did use others from different angles and dates to try to get a reasonably authentic look to it.

 

 

A nice looking model of the box, but I'm intrigued by the white-on-blue colour scheme for the nameplate - what was your evidence for that please? I'm not saying that it should not be that, just curious....:-)

[phil_sutters]

15 hours ago, RailWest said:

 

A nice looking model of the box, but I'm intrigued by the white-on-blue colour scheme for the nameplate - what was your evidence for that please? I'm not saying that it should not be that, just curious....:-)

I have added to the information next to the photo about my thinking. My Wharf project has a rather fluid dateline, but the early twenties is when most of the rolling stock, buildings and road vehicles will be based around. The white on blue is based on a photo of the Midsomer Norton South name board, that was on display at Washford. There was another reference, but I cannot lay my hands on it at present.

[RailWest]

>>>The white on blue is based on a photo of the Midsomer Norton South name board, that was on display at Washford. ...

 

Strange, I don't recall ever seeing that there...

[phil_sutters]

1 hour ago, RailWest said:

>>>The white on blue is based on a photo of the Midsomer Norton South name board, that was on display at Washford. ...

 

Strange, I don't recall ever seeing that there...

I only had a photo in Ron Fisher's Flickr album to go on. It looked authentic and somewhat weather-beaten. It had the Chilcompton board in WR colours above it.

Despite having a sister fairly nearby, I have never been on the West Somerset, I am sad to say. As I said there was another reference, which was about the setting up of the joint railway and the colours before and after that, but I am blowed if I can find it now.

Edited February 28, 2022 by phil_sutters

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

It looked authentic and somewhat weather-beaten.

 

The lettering looks very Gill Sans so I would think that's a BR period board.

[phil_sutters]

18 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The lettering looks very Gill Sans so I would think that's a BR period board.

It also is rather crisp. But why is it blue?  Was it for a anniversary reconstruction perhaps?

I still need to find my other reference source!

Edited February 28, 2022 by phil_sutters

[RailWest]

Well, the first thing to remember about MSN is that the 'South' suffix did not come into use until the early 1950s. As regards Highbridge, I had sight once of some correspondence about the fact that the SB nameboards there had been removed in WWII and therefore needed replacing.

 

In the apparent absence of any formal painting schedule for the S&DJR pre-1948  and very few colour photos, it is difficult to say what the colours ought to be. As a reasonable starting point I would go with L&SWR or SRly schemes, depending on period, whilst recognising that the S&DJR managed to be individualistic in many respects. For example, in the early 1900s, the new box at Templecome No 3 Jcn had dark lettering on a  light background, whereas at about the same time the new box at Stalbridge had light lettering on a dark background!

[Compound2632]

I had a look in Midland Style but it is generally silent on S&DJR structure or signalling paint schemes, except for cast notices.

[RailWest]

Might not signalling related painting have been done perhaps by the L&SWR anyway?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, RailWest said:

Might not signalling related painting have been done perhaps by the L&SWR anyway?

 

On joint lines, Midland Style generally records all aspects, not just those for which the Midland was responsible, But on structures and signalling it's slimmer than on rolling stock, for all the joint lines.

[bécasse]

In S&DJtR days the responsibility for painting all structures, and providing signs, was the responsibility of the District Engineer, Glastonbury, which was a L&SWR appointment. That isn't to say that L&SWR standards and colours were used, of course, but it is a potential pointer. The same DE was responsible for signalling and we all know how idiosyncratic that could be. MR input would generally be limited to approving expenditure, which probably meant that economic solutions were more important on the Joint Line than on the rest of the L&SWR.

 

When the DE Glastonbury position was abolished (possible prior to 1930, I can't remember now), responsibility passed to the SR''s DE Exeter (which actually came under the WR for much of the 1950s), an office which had a bit of a reputation for independence from HQ.

 

None of which helps determine why the sign has, apparently, a blue background. I did wonder whether it had actually been black, and faded to an apparent blue, as i do remember seeing odd WR painted signs with a black background in the mid-1960s. Painting it blue would seem very odd as I doubt whether a painting gang under WR control would even have had any blue pigments, let alone ready-mixed paint, given that the WR separated out S&T painting gangs (who would have had a palish blue for levers).

[Stevietrain]

Phil, did you take any photos of the south side of Highbridge S&D goods shed? I think there may have been a grounded carriage body there.

[RailWest]

Is not the MSN South sign the same as the one which IIRC is now in the S&DRHT Museum at MSN station? If so, then I would speculate that indeed it is a WR repaint, and probably of a BR period replacement anyway in order to accommodate the addition of the 'South' suffix.

[phil_sutters]

2 hours ago, Stevietrain said:

Phil, did you take any photos of the south side of Highbridge S&D goods shed? I think there may have been a grounded carriage body there.

This is the only one I took of that side and I can't detect a grounded carriage in it. Don't forget this was taken in 1969 well after closure. Could the shed on the left have looked like one from the aerial views in Britain from the air? When blown up shapes do get pixilated and the pixels could suggest compartments in this context.

Edited June 5, 2022 by phil_sutters

[phil_sutters]

On 28/02/2022 at 13:06, RailWest said:

Well, the first thing to remember about MSN is that the 'South' suffix did not come into use until the early 1950s. As regards Highbridge, I had sight once of some correspondence about the fact that the SB nameboards there had been removed in WWII and therefore needed replacing.

 

When the box changed from Highbridge C to Highbridge East A on nationalization, it would have had a new BR board.

[Stevietrain]

21 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

This is the only one I took of that side and I can't detect a grounded carriage in it. Don't forget this was taken in 1969 well after closure. Could the shed on the left have looked like one from the aerial views in Britain from the air? When blown up shapes do get pixilated and the pixels could suggest compartments in this context.

 

[Stevietrain]

Many thanks. It is quite possible that the building attached to the goods shed (or alonside it) was the object I saw in an aerial shot and thought could be a carriage body. I think the aerial shot was from the 1930s.

Best,

Steve

[phil_sutters]

Following the previous conversation about the building on the south of the S&D's Highbridge Goods Shed, I came across this shot, which I think that I have seen previously somewhere else, of a short goods train passing the other side. It has been dated as in 'the 1950s'.  The 3F has a couple of mineral wagons and a fitted van in tow, but no brake van. It is obviously not just shunting, as the van has a tail lamp mounted just above the buffer beam. How far could it travel like that? It is on the line from Highbridge Wharf , running alongside the line from Burnham, which by 1952 was, apart from excursions, a goods only line. The two will merge about 100 yards on.  At that time passenger services, from Evercreech Junction, finished at the S&D Highbridge station on the other side of the GWR line. Did goods only lines have different rules to passenger routes?

I don't think that I have noticed the little square panel at the top left of the end of the van before. What purpose did that have?

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157205377979499&set=gm.2640162239545954

Edited June 29, 2022 by phil_sutters

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

I don't think that I have noticed the little square panel at the top left of the end of the van before. What purpose did that have?

 

It's an ex-LNER van - the panel is in fact a hatch, a characteristic feature of LNER vans, purpose if not unknown at least argued over in detail in some other recent thread.