Rails Announce OO 18000 Gas Turbine Locomotive

[boxbrownie]

If it sounds like a turbine engine.......and it certainly does.......good enough for me, it’s unique and an interesting Loco to run on any layout......even if it’s just for fun, this is a hobby after all, playing trains 

[tomparryharry]

2 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

If it sounds like a turbine engine.......and it certainly does.......good enough for me, it’s unique and an interesting Loco to run on any layout......even if it’s just for fun, this is a hobby after all, playing trains 

What! Who told you that?

[TrevorP1]

I don't have any interest in the sound fitted version however, many, many years ago I was involved in model engineering. I remember that when loco whistles were tested on compressed air they sounded different, more high pitched or 'tinny', than on steam. Could it be that we are more accustomed to hearing whistles on steam? I'm thinking that maybe if a GW steam whistle was sounded using air then it would sound different than when on steam. Possibly pressure would also come into it. Perhaps we need the input of a music here?  

[Georgeconna]

Looks and sounds the bizz.

 

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, TrevorP1 said:

I don't have any interest in the sound fitted version however, many, many years ago I was involved in model engineering. I remember that when loco whistles were tested on compressed air they sounded different, more high pitched or 'tinny', than on steam. Could it be that we are more accustomed to hearing whistles on steam? I'm thinking that maybe if a GW steam whistle was sounded using air then it would sound different than when on steam. Possibly pressure would also come into it. Perhaps we need the input of a music here?  

Absolutely right, Trevor. Compressed air on a whistle, although nice, sound different on steam. The difference comes down to the fact that steam is an expansive gas; compressed air isn't. I'd suggest that the whistle is closer in sound, to an 08 shunter. Like oters have said, the easiest route would to have the whistle on the bench, and put 100 psi  through it or, more correctly, discover what the correct working pressure  used on the locomotive, and try that. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by tomparryharry

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

What! Who told you that?

I must admit, some threads make me wonder 

[No Decorum]

41 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Absolutely right, Trevor. Compressed air on a whistle, although nice, sound different on steam. The difference comes down to the fact that steam is an expansive gas; compressed air isn't. I'd suggest that the whistle is closer in sound, to an 08 shunter. Like oters have said, the easiest route would to have the whistle on the bench, and put 100 psi  through it or, more correctly, discover what the correct working pressure  used on the locomotive, and try that. 

The late, great Bob Symes described the sound of a steam whistle as a “lovely, wet whistle”. It’s a good description of how steam entering a cold whistle condenses and sputters and gurgles until the whistle warms. It can be accentuated by just cracking the valve open to restrict the steam supply. 

[Ian J.]

What decoder is being used for the sound? If, at some later date, sound recordings of the original were found and the sound used for this release is found to be 'incorrect', would it be possible to get it reprogrammed with a new set of sounds compiled to be closer to the original?

 

My current pre-order is for the non-sound fitted one. I like the idea of the sound version, but the extra cost is not insignificant and knowing the investment could be 'corrected' at a later date would give me some reassurance I wasn't feeling I could potentially be wasting money.

[oleander]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

What decoder is being used for the sound? If, at some later date, sound recordings of the original were found and the sound used for this release is found to be 'incorrect', would it be possible to get it reprogrammed with a new set of sounds compiled to be closer to the original?

 

My current pre-order is for the non-sound fitted one. I like the idea of the sound version, but the extra cost is not insignificant and knowing the investment could be 'corrected' at a later date would give me some reassurance I wasn't feeling I could potentially be wasting money.

Hi 

That was what I am think. Given the price of the sound option and the amount of diffrent sounds they show on you tube. I would hope it would be an ESU V5.

 

 

[boxbrownie]

6 minutes ago, oleander said:

Hi 

That was what I am think. Given the price of the sound option and the amount of diffrent sounds they show on you tube. I would hope it would be an ESU V5.

 

 

Presumably it will most likely be. Loksound 5, but it could also be a Zimo.....both are great decoders and easily reprogrammed, I cannot see rails using a unique decoder or to “lock it” even.

[Ian J.]

Rails have said they're not making the project available aftermarket for retro fitting, which does make me wonder if they might lock it.

[MG 7305]

Meanwhile, back on planet BR(W), or in my case MDR, any news as to when the common or garden and silent model is due?

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Ian J. said:

Rails have said they're not making the project available aftermarket for retro fitting, which does make me wonder if they might lock it.

But there are numerous sound files with manufacturers Locos/DMUs which are not available after market, case in point my Dapol Railcar, I had it reblown with a decent file which didn’t sound like a rabid rat in a dustbin.

[Mark]

On 05/06/2021 at 19:07, Michael Hodgson said:

Funny you should say that.  I definitely didn't hear it so I've no idea what's correct - but listening to the  clip I thought it all sounded plausible with the exception of that whistle - it just didn't seem to fit, but could well be correct for all I would know.  Doesn't matter as I've ordered it without sound!

I think they have used the same whistle you get on Swiss locos which makes some sense given the pedigree. I guess the question is was there a specification requirement for a particular tone of whistle when the Great Western placed the order. If not then it is entirely plausible the Swiss would use their own tone.

 

Mark

[61661]

Morning All,

I might be able to add some clarity here. 18000 was delivered with whistles, but lost them during a works visit in favour of horns tucked under the bufferbeams. One of the differences between the black and green locos on our new model for Rails is that the black loco has the whistles fitted on the cab roof and the green locos just have a short stub, as per the real loco. 

Heljan wasn't involved in developing the sound files, that was done by Rails and its sound specialist, but we did advise that a whistle sound function should be included, given that the black loco has them. 

Even now, locos/units in Switzerland (where 18000 was built) and across mainland Europe have whistles rather than (or as well as) horns, operated by compressed air. 

 

Hope this helps

 

Ben

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

I don't have any interest in the sound fitted version however, many, many years ago I was involved in model engineering. I remember that when loco whistles were tested on compressed air they sounded different, more high pitched or 'tinny', than on steam. Could it be that we are more accustomed to hearing whistles on steam? I'm thinking that maybe if a GW steam whistle was sounded using air then it would sound different than when on steam. Possibly pressure would also come into it. Perhaps we need the input of a music here?  

Agree absolutely however I have been looking at photos to try to establish what sort of whistles 18000 carried when in traffic.  In some views they look distinctly GWR but the whistle on the sound posted here sounds distinctly 'continental' to me.  I don't think even a GW whistle on compressed air would sound that 'thin'.   But we are where we are, I can't find any conclusive evidence about teh type of whistle carried by 18000 (someone might?) so it could just as easily have had a whistle fitted in Switzerland and the sound would be accurate (allowing for use of compressed air instead of steam) as have had one fitted in Swindon and the sound not sounding correct.

 

But that apart the sound struck me as having some excellent features. 

 

PS I then got to Ben's post which answered the question about the origin of the whistles and on that basis I think the sound is very accurate - it definitely sounds like a continental whistle.

Edited June 7, 2021 by The Stationmaster

[tomparryharry]

You could put a Caley hooter on it, that would wake them up a bit....

[dibber25]

It is highly likely that 18000 had standard GWR whistles. Quite a lot of fittings were supplied by Swindon - the details are in the files at the NRM. Of course, that's not to say that the whistle would have sounded the same as it did on a steam loco. Remember, too, that Swindon had fitted much better horns to its railcars after complaints that plate layers couldn't hear them coming. I'm guessing that when Swindon  heard the whistles on 18000 they replaced them with the railcar horns (which were said to be EXCEPTIONALLY LOUD!) (CJL)

[tomparryharry]

Returning to page 2 on this thread, the photo at Didcot appears to be a standard GW loco whistle.  Of course, anything could have happened in the ensuing years. 

[adb968008]

On 08/06/2021 at 01:46, tomparryharry said:

Returning to page 2 on this thread, the photo at Didcot appears to be a standard GW loco whistle.  Of course, anything could have happened in the ensuing years. 

Looking at historical pictures, the whistle fitted in BR days is taller and thinner.

 

 

 

There are several pictures of the loco in Switzerland with a short fatter whistle, which looks more like the same whistle it has now. 

 

 

you can see how much change the loco has undergone to the front end, lights, handrails, steps etc.

 

fyi, nice view of the testing in this video, the drivers cab looks more like a ships cabin.

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by adb968008

[Michael Hodgson]

Good to see that old footage of the Brown Boveri works - we used to go to Baden on holiday in the late 1950s

[tomparryharry]

That's a nice set of photos, but I would suggest the  whistle in these photos is/are  the same whistle (s).  The larger, fatter,  whistle is a Western brake whistle. The photo that portrays 18000 being towed appears to be a standard item. 

 

On the whole, 18000 doesn't appear to be in bad condition. Certainly, there are holes here & there, but it's only superficial. Even if there are major structural failings in the chassis, such conditions are entirely replaceable.  In fact, it might prove to be easier to restore the fabric of the entire locomotive, as I'd put a good wager that the fabric, fixtures & fittings are metric sizes & standards. 

 

Some items will be 'interesting' to re-make, but historic aircraft continue to gain their airframe certificates. Money, of course, is a deciding factor.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

[AlfaZagato]

I would say replacing the turbine would prove trickier.   On a much smaller scale, the running Howmet TX is with a different make of turbine altogether.   The original had a known failure rate.

 

There's also the question of other running gear.   I'd imagine most of that is unique, or very uncommon at this point.

[tomparryharry]

3 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

I would say replacing the turbine would prove trickier.   On a much smaller scale, the running Howmet TX is with a different make of turbine altogether.   The original had a known failure rate.

 

There's also the question of other running gear.   I'd imagine most of that is unique, or very uncommon at this point.

As a working  museum exhibit, replacing the running gear is a straightforward exercise.  There is, after all, no such word as 'can't'.  I have absolutely no working knowledge of a Brown-Boveri turbine, but the knowledge is there. Apart from the financial aspect, everything is possible.  The number of locomotives being re-constructed worldwide would give me confidence. 

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

On the whole, 18000 doesn't appear to be in bad condition. 

Summer 2020..

 

 

Given the locomotives history, its remarkable its been left unprotected in such an open exposed position for a number of years now.

 

maybe someone should put a chimney on it.

Edited June 10, 2021 by adb968008