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Image restoration from pre-May 2021 continues and may take an indefinite period of time.

Rails Announce OO 18000 Gas Turbine Locomotive


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4 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I am afraid it was a general practice when I was in the press, if an image looked to be “leaving the page” it was flipped to face the spine…….quite normal if there was no other option.

Well, I started in publishing in 1963, and have been in it ever since. I've never come across that practice. It would be very obvious in railway publications as trains would be running wrong line and numbers would be reversed........and if anyone did it deliberately they wouldn't have been in the job for long! (CJL)

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9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

2nd radius minimum is usually specified these days - was 3rd minimum mentioned in the advertising?

It says in the literature that it will negotiate r3 curves, but my observation is that it won't without doing damage going by the noise it makes. 

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10 hours ago, Brian Hawkins said:

Although i have yet to receive my sound fitted version of 18000, some of the postings on this thread dosn't fill me with much confidence of the mode,l what with quality control and poor running, i have waited a long time for this model as i know many of you have, fingers crossed i end up without any problems with it.

My black version with sound arrived yesterday morning in perfect condition, less than 24 hours after I was notified of its despatch. It looks fantastic and the sound is amazing. The arrangement of the bogies was pioneered by Kernow on its Bulleid Diesels and works fine. It’s an invitation for the outer bogie frames to assume odd angles but in practice it isn’t noticeable. As with the Bullieds, a railer is very helpful.

 

In spite of all the warnings, I’ve managed to break a whistle. Thanks to Alan.P.B for pointing out where the rods on the bogies go. I suspect they are object deflectors rather than something to do with the brakes and I’m wondering if they will foul uncoupling ramps. Likewise, I’m wondering if the cab steps will survive the sideways movements of the bogie frame. The pipes and drawhook will need to be trimmed to fit the holes.

 

Mine had a tendency to oscillate i.e. slow down and speed up at some speeds but the wheels are filthy after running in and cleaning them might help. There’s considerable inertia in the model, so be ready on F5 or the red button until you get used to it!

 

I still have lots to do to the model but I am seriously impressed by it and I’m only waiting for my credit card to reset to order 18100 and E1000. I should mention that my track is laid to 6' radius, so I wouldn’t expect binding.

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10 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Well, I started in publishing in 1963, and have been in it ever since. I've never come across that practice. It would be very obvious in railway publications as trains would be running wrong line and numbers would be reversed........and if anyone did it deliberately they wouldn't have been in the job for long! (CJL)

It doesn’t work for everything obviously, maybe not so common practice in reference books and the like but in newspaper publishing the picture editor was always moaning he had to “flip” a piccy as we took it the wrong way around, we never got any complaints from the thousands of “faces” published…..just happy for the publicity usually.

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10 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Well, I started in publishing in 1963, and have been in it ever since. I've never come across that practice. It would be very obvious in railway publications as trains would be running wrong line and numbers would be reversed........and if anyone did it deliberately they wouldn't have been in the job for long! (CJL)

There have been one or two examples in recent years from people who should know a lot better but they're usually pretty obvious when you look at them for more than a very rapid glance.  The thing that really gets me going is inaccurate - and very often all too obviously inaccurate - captions to illustrations the ultimate probably being a photo of Gloucester Tramway jcn which was captioned as Slough, complete with LM pattern UQ signals, in a model railway magazine.

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1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

editor was always moaning he had to “flip” a piccy as we took it the wrong way around, we never got any complaints from the thousands of “faces” published…..just happy for the publicity usually.

 

That was probably because the person in the photographs did not know it was flipped as he/she is used to seeing a mirror image of themselves, in a mirror.

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Speaking of mirror images*, one curious thing I noticed about the model was that the windscreen wipers are on the middle and offside cab windows but not the nearside window, meaning that it was right-hand drive, which was unusual for a British locomotive. I checked Marsden & Fenn and the drawing indicates wipers on the left and right-hand windows but not the central one. The photographs, though, all show them on the centre and off side only, so the model is perfectly correct.

 

*Sort of.

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22 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Speaking of mirror images*, one curious thing I noticed about the model was that the windscreen wipers are on the middle and offside cab windows but not the nearside window, meaning that it was right-hand drive, which was unusual for a British locomotive. I checked Marsden & Fenn and the drawing indicates wipers on the left and right-hand windows but not the central one. The photographs, though, all show them on the centre and off side only, so the model is perfectly correct.

 

*Sort of.

Possibly being originally ordered by the Great Western with right hand drive locos.

 

Mark

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1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

That was probably because the person in the photographs did not know it was flipped as he/she is used to seeing a mirror image of themselves, in a mirror.

No one ever noticed or complained TBH, these were pictures in newspapers where quite frankly tomorrow they are thrown away or wrapping chips…….it was that long ago :D

Edited by boxbrownie
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5 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

It doesn’t work for everything obviously, maybe not so common practice in reference books and the like but in newspaper publishing the picture editor was always moaning he had to “flip” a piccy as we took it the wrong way around, we never got any complaints from the thousands of “faces” published…..just happy for the publicity usually.

I did see it done once on an election leaflet. The candidate's portrait was flipped for the back cover. Only trouble was he had a rather obvious mole on one side of his nose - which side rather depended on which side of the leaflet you were looking at! (CJL)

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On 12/10/2021 at 17:10, bubbles2 said:

I stripped the bogies out today, adjusted the bronze pickups that where making very limp contact with the back of the wheels if touching at all and added extra pickups to the centre axel wheels, now running very well and have worked out where the detail parts go. It’s a shame the orange pin strip above the buffers to the cab doors on the green livery has been missed off, I wonder if N scale modern cant rail strip transfer could be used to represent it?

D563FC6B-11A5-4921-8FA7-A769D4731C99.jpeg

And filing a bit of the inside of the bogie frames at the corners gives the bogies that bit more space to move, thereby doing away with the 'scraping' on bends. This can be done without removing the bogie from the chassis, though great care is required regarding the file shavings. Lots of 'blow and puff' while doing the job will help.

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7 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Speaking of mirror images*, one curious thing I noticed about the model was that the windscreen wipers are on the middle and offside cab windows but not the nearside window, meaning that it was right-hand drive, which was unusual for a British locomotive. I checked Marsden & Fenn and the drawing indicates wipers on the left and right-hand windows but not the central one. The photographs, though, all show them on the centre and off side only, so the model is perfectly correct.

 

*Sort of.

It was built right hand drive, as was 18100. That one was converted to left hand drive when it was converted to AC power. 

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On 12/10/2021 at 17:10, bubbles2 said:

I stripped the bogies out today, adjusted the bronze pickups that where making very limp contact with the back of the wheels if touching at all

Thank you for giving me the courage to dismantle a GBP 200 model and fix the pick ups to the motor.  It was something of a marathon but I got there in the end and the running is infinitely improved.  I can now fit the details without worrying I may have to damage them to get the running up to standard.

Edited by MG 7305
Getting it right, inevitably!
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4 hours ago, dibber25 said:

I did see it done once on an election leaflet. The candidate's portrait was flipped for the back cover. Only trouble was he had a rather obvious mole on one side of his nose - which side rather depended on which side of the leaflet you were looking at! (CJL)

We had an election leaflet come through a few years ago and under the picture of the candidate it said “insert name hear” ……you just can’t get the staff :lol:

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5 hours ago, Edna Clouds said:

And filing a bit of the inside of the bogie frames at the corners gives the bogies that bit more space to move, thereby doing away with the 'scraping' on bends. This can be done without removing the bogie from the chassis, though great care is required regarding the file shavings. Lots of 'blow and puff' while doing the job will help.

I tend to use lots of "damn and blast" when doing tedious jobs like that :excl:

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It is in our nature to tinker with new toys,  but why does it seem that the more expensive the locomotive the more fettling needed.  At almost GBP200.00,  the "18000" will be the most expensive "OO" scale locomotive that I have purchased and it does dishearten me the number of issues raised with the new model.  While I have the ability to disassemble and rectify most issues found,  the thought that comes to mind is why should I have to.

 

I am not simply referring to minor cosmetic issues like say a missing lamp iron as on a recent Hornby issue or a dislodged whistle,  but surely power pickup is something which the factory should correct before dispatch.  How could a heavy,  long locomotive with eight wheel pickup stall over a crossing.  I had enough issues with six recently received Hornby B2 Pecketts to satisfy my need to do anymore tinkering on new purchases and now I fear another purchase is enroute and quite possibly will require some rectification.  I have no issue correcting faults on known faulty pre-owned purchases,  but when one is buying new then the expectations are much higher.

 

I have no problem with the R4 minimum limit on the "18000" but surely the manufacturer should have highlighted that.  The cynic in me suggests that such information would have certainly curtailed possible sales.  I had thought of pre-ordering a class "18100",  however,  with a price of GBP225.00 and possible running issues,   I will pass on it even though acquiring another quirky gas turbine powered WR locomotive did interest me. 

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7 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

It is in our nature to tinker with new toys,  but why does it seem that the more expensive the locomotive the more fettling needed.  At almost GBP200.00,  the "18000" will be the most expensive "OO" scale locomotive that I have purchased and it does dishearten me the number of issues raised with the new model.  While I have the ability to disassemble and rectify most issues found,  the thought that comes to mind is why should I have to.

 

I am not simply referring to minor cosmetic issues like say a missing lamp iron as on a recent Hornby issue or a dislodged whistle,  but surely power pickup is something which the factory should correct before dispatch.  How could a heavy,  long locomotive with eight wheel pickup stall over a crossing.  I had enough issues with six recently received Hornby B2 Pecketts to satisfy my need to do anymore tinkering on new purchases and now I fear another purchase is enroute and quite possibly will require some rectification.  I have no issue correcting faults on known faulty pre-owned purchases,  but when one is buying new then the expectations are much higher.

 

I have no problem with the R4 minimum limit on the "18000" but surely the manufacturer should have highlighted that.  The cynic in me suggests that such information would have certainly curtailed possible sales.  I had thought of pre-ordering a class "18100",  however,  with a price of GBP225.00 and possible running issues,   I will pass on it even though acquiring another quirky gas turbine powered WR locomotive did interest me. 


A thoughtful and incisive post.  A good idea to copy it to Rails who will be interested to read it

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11 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

It is in our nature to tinker with new toys,  but why does it seem that the more expensive the locomotive the more fettling needed. 

 

I would disagree that the more expensive need more work, it is just that we are far more aware of that work given the likely cost involved if we get it wrong. My most expensive locos are SLW Class 24s (DCC Sound versions), and I have not had to touch one of those, yet have had to do work on quite a few lower priced models.

 

I fully agree with the remaining sentiment of your post. It does beggar belief that models of this calibre are needing remedial work to run from fresh out of the box. I refuse to pre-order any Heljan produced product having had my fingers burned too many times. As a result, I was very interested in getting an 18000 when they were out and about and the jury had formed an opinion. Now, I am not saying I won't get one, but I am very nervous about doing so given what has been seen so far.


Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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5 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I would disagree that he more expensive need more work, it is just that we are far more aware of that work given the likely cost involved if we get it wrong. My most expensive locos are SLW Class 24s (DCC Sound versions), and I have not had to touch one of those, yet have had to do work on quite a few lower priced models.

 

I fully agree with the remaining sentiment of your post. It does beggar belief that models of this calibre are needing remedial work to run from fresh out of the box. I refuse to pre-order any Heljan produced product having had my fingers burned too many times. As a result, I was very interested in getting an 18000 when they were out and about and the jury had formed an onion. Now, I am not saying I won't get one, but I am very nervous about doing so given what has been seen so far.


Roy

 

Mine performed faultlessly straight out of the box, and was complete with all its attached details.

 

CJI.

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26 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Mine performed faultlessly straight out of the box, and was complete with all its attached details.

 

CJI.

 

And therein lies part of the problem - too many locos are variable in quality, and some of the problems found only manifest themselves down the line, potentially when warranties have expired.

 

As an example, I have had five Hattons 66s in my hands - four of mine and one belonging to one of my sons. Four have needed remedial work, with a mix of three different problems (lights, steps, axle boxes). One was perfect from the get go. If a proper quality regime is in place, we should be getting a much better than 20% success rate.

Roy

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1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Mine performed faultlessly straight out of the box, and was complete with all its attached details.

 

CJI.

 

I do hope that mine is also fault free.  I have only ever returned one locomotive to the UK and that was a three month turnaround with the replacement only marginally better than the failed model (and I had to pay the return postage).

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