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Rails Announce OO 18000 Gas Turbine Locomotive


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17 hours ago, reddragon said:

As for a repair or if OK a refund.

Returned for refund. No problem for Rails who were fine about it. I guess I am quite sad about this outcome after waiting quite a long time for the loco.

Prices are going up which is understandable, especially with the greater accuracy, extra detail and sophistication. This has moved on in leaps and bounds over the last couple of years. But it really should not be up to the customer to find the issues / problems. Improved quality control and testing following the assembly at factories would / may increase further the cost, but would be countered by the returns and repair costs, supplier reputation surely. This I believe should always be applied for new design / newly tooled projects and might even lead to some early intervention and correction. For proven re-runs this might be reduced in scope.

Perhaps £5 extra to set up a 'running in' and performance testing system before packing? Would this be acceptable if it got the QC certificate and the improvement to customer confidence?

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I’ve returned two of these for one reason or another. Rails, as you say have been excellent with regard to

customer service.

This could have been a superb model, it certainly has the looks but I do feel that Rails have been let down

by Heljan in this instance.

I know that people will say that fixes are to be expected and can be easily carried out.

I do not have the experience or desire to do so on such an expensive model.

By comparison, I recently bought some of IRM A Class  locomotives for less money and am unable

to find fault at all.

As I say, this is in no way a criticism of  Rails but I will think twice before ordering another Heljan loco.

Just my opinion.

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15 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

 

As I say, this is in no way a criticism of  Rails but I will think twice before ordering another Heljan loco.

Just my opinion.

Returned mine yesterday, but have the RoS “Fell” on order regardless.

 

As for the Heljan bit……I have quite a few Heljan Locos and the 18000 is the first to have any issues with them at all.

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16 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

Me too, but isn’t the fell KR Models ?

This was my first experience with Heljan to be honest, so not really representative I guess.

Liking the prototype diesels and gas turbines that are starting to appear.

Might be, I was just referring to the fact it is an RoS edition…….one of my sweetest running diesels is still the Kestral.

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32 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

I have bought all the prototype diesels from Heljan (heaven knows why for a 1930's GW layout) and everyone is an excellent runner as is my 18000.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Likewise, and likewise good runners. I don’t think Heljan gets enough credit for producing Falcon, which prompted the whole prototype range we have now. Bachmann, Kernow and even Dapol followed. A fascinating lot they are too. Has anyone else done a translucent roof quite as well as Lion?

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1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

I have bought all the prototype diesels from Heljan (heaven knows why for a 1930's GW layout) and everyone is an excellent runner as is my 18000.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Agree, I don’t think it was a failure of the drivetrain which caused the running issues with my 18000 but something with the decoder not being “tuned” correctly for the Loco…..no idea but I didn’t want to take apart a new Loco and remove the decoder just to try that, and it had other issues which were with my layout rather than the Loco although stating it needed 3rd radius curves as a minimum only when it was delivered was a bit of a googly! 

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On 05/11/2021 at 15:09, Coach bogie said:

I have bought all the prototype diesels from Heljan (heaven knows why for a 1930's GW layout) and everyone is an excellent runner as is my 18000.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Is the 18000 running on DC or DCC? I wonder if boxbrownie has a point. Although I did try the test with CV54 =0 and run to optimise the motor feedback with no success. Then return the CV setting back to original.

No refund as yet but should I ask for a replacement as there are so many good aspects of the loco if only it would run smoothly?!

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After nearly two weeks I overcame my lack of enthusiasm for the model and actually test ran it on an R3 test track.  The model definitely slows down to the point of stalling on R3 curves if not taken at higher voltages,  but will run at a crawl on straight track if needed.  Directional lighting and smoothness of operation seem OK.    My layout will have a minimum of R4 curves so hopefully one issue will not be encountered.   

 

I am slowly warming up to the model having been initially alarmed at the number who had experienced power pickup issues.   I am extremely grateful that I did not opt for the sound DCC fitted version.   Given the relatively long gestation period it does seem odd that it was left to the buyers to find out the R3 limitation on the model,  although a long loco with enveloping aprons was always going to have some running design issues,  particularly as the hobby still clings to the toy trainset mentality of R2 curves as a standard.

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I've recently seen one of these weathered , an example of the black version. It really brings the model to life and I'm surprised there hasn't been any shewn on this thread yet.

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31 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

This guy is brave but has solved his problem of the model struggling with third radius curves with a scalpel.:o Not for the faint hearted and definitely invalidates the warranty.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzDFsrM8Yd4

Err….butchery really……might have been a better solution to slice the whole body piece that runs parallel to the bogie and stick the body section to the bogie side, so when it negotiates the curves the whole separated body section moves with the bogie.

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1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

This guy is brave but has solved his problem of the model struggling with third radius curves with a scalpel.:o

 

 

If safety is a concern, use a fine toothed saw! 

 

I have not had a chance to run mine yet, but there has to be a better way to allow more bogie play on curved track. 

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On 18/11/2021 at 20:30, gwrrob said:

This guy is brave but has solved his problem of the model struggling with third radius curves with a scalpel.:o Not for the faint hearted and definitely invalidates the warranty.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzDFsrM8Yd4

I feel sorry for the loco.

 

if i watched correctly, he wanted a flip out side piece, but ended up cutting it off entirely and painting the bogie black.

 

I do like the Roco solution though.

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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57 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I feel sorry for the loco.

 

if i watched correctly, he wanted a flip out side piece, but ended up cutting it off entirely and painting the bogie black.

 

I do like the Roco solution though.

 

 

Should be possible for the manufacturers to this more realistically if they decide a rerun would sell.  The chances of that may have been scuppered by all the adverse comments on this run though.

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2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Should be possible for the manufacturers to this more realistically if they decide a rerun would sell.  The chances of that may have been scuppered by all the adverse comments on this run though.

I'd be very surprised if the market is large enough to take any more runs of 18000 let alone justify very expensive tooling changes.  The selling price indicates that the market must have been pretty limited in size in the first place and I suspect that quite a percentage of those sold will never move at all but will sit in display cases rather than earning a living on a layout.

 

But I doubt if this thread would deter many potential buyers.  While RMweb has a large, and growing, membership there are many model railway purchasers which it doesn't meet and if you want it for display or an occasional run the fact that it doesn't like trainset curves probably wouldn't put off much of a percentage of potential buyers.  true some will be put off but in this sort of market area, with many models sold never likely to turn a wheel, their numbers will probably not be significant.

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On 18/11/2021 at 21:03, boxbrownie said:

Err….butchery really……might have been a better solution to slice the whole body piece that runs parallel to the bogie and stick the body section to the bogie side, so when it negotiates the curves the whole separated body section moves with the bogie.

But the soluton he was following did have a precedent, a quite clever one.

 

But running a knife like that through anything is pretty risky, to be fair to him, he rated having the loco over not having it, took a chance on an expensive model and isn't unhappy at the solution.

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3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I'd be very surprised if the market is large enough to take any more runs of 18000 let alone justify very expensive tooling changes.  The selling price indicates that the market must have been pretty limited in size in the first place and I suspect that quite a percentage of those sold will never move at all but will sit in display cases rather than earning a living on a layout.

 

But I doubt if this thread would deter many potential buyers.  While RMweb has a large, and growing, membership there are many model railway purchasers which it doesn't meet and if you want it for display or an occasional run the fact that it doesn't like trainset curves probably wouldn't put off much of a percentage of potential buyers.  true some will be put off but in this sort of market area, with many models sold never likely to turn a wheel, their numbers will probably not be significant.

 

They said the same about APT-E and Deltic.

 

Besides it's made by Heljan, they always re-run things. "Can't sell LNER O2s and railbuses? Okay we'll make more"....

 

It's not a case of if there's another run but when.

 

 

Jason

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On 18/11/2021 at 20:30, gwrrob said:

This guy is brave but has solved his problem of the model struggling with third radius curves with a scalpel.:o Not for the faint hearted and definitely invalidates the warranty.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzDFsrM8Yd4

Very extreme and clearly he failed in his original attempt to retain and use the cut off skirts. I have made mine R3 compatible by filing down the depth of the bogie side frames, on the inside face. I don't claim credit for this, I drew on another RM Web poster who had performed this. So although the bogie side frames can't turn any further, it gives extra width for the inner wheel bogie to turn further. I was able to get good access to the inside of the bogie side frames, by removing the body, which allows the side frames to turn further, giving a longer filing stroke. This won't achieve R2 ability, but works for R3 and leaves the side profile unaffected.

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