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Gresley Junction


thegreenhowards
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5 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

I think it varied over the years from c.1400 to c.1600. I wasn’t even born and don’t have the freight WTT, so I’m relying on photo captions. Gilbert might be able to give us the definitive answer...at least for 1958.

My freight WTT is for Summer 1956, and shows 266 Down leaving KX at 3.00pm, but I agree that the departure time did vary over the years. From memory, it was 3.20pm in the summer of 58.

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2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I've greatly enjoyed the videos and thanks for posting.

 

You raised the question of the C1 with "British Railways" on the tender. I did some research on this a while back having acquired a K's kit for the same, still untouched I'm afraid. Yeadon is our friend here, volume 13, page 51 to be precise. Both 62822 and 62885 carried the BR number and "British Railways" on the tender side, the only ones to do so. There are photos of both locos in this condition, and the following notes may be of interest.

 

62822 was allocated to Grantham from January 1947 until withdrawal on 27th November 1950. She was in Doncaster Works for a light repair from the 4th to 16th February 1949, acquiring the BR number and tender lettering then. In the photo the numbers on both cabside and smokebox plate are clearly with the later, non-curly 6 and also apparently with the taller style of BR (ER) numbers and lettering.  Moreover both loco and tender are unlined. The day before the final special run on 26th November 1950 she had her tender swapped for one with a water scoop off K2 61736, and this was lined, and so looks a bit odd in pictures.

 

62885 was a Sheffield, presumably Darnall loco from16th November 1949, having previously been at Doncaster. A Works visit from 23rd April to 6th May 1948 saw her appear with the BR numbering and lettering on the tender, both loco and tender are unlined. There is no smokebox numberplate. The numbering has the early curly 6 and both this and the tender lettering appear to be in the shorter font, as applied for example to LM locos. Withdrawal was on 23rd January 1950.

 

Please note I don't have hard evidence of the font size, it's simply my judgement from looking at the pictures, which are next to each other in the book.

 

John.

 

P.S. on 62822 the smokebox numberplate sits immediately above the horizontal handrail, and the top lamp bracket is at the top of the smokebox door. On 62885 the top lamp bracket sits just above the handrail.

John,

 

Thanks for your comment on the videos. They take quite a while to film and process, so it’s nice to know that they’re appreciated.

 

As for the C1, thanks for your research. Given that I need a KX outer suburban example, I’ve more or less decided to go for 2881 in 1948 guise with LNER on the tender and I’ve ordered the decals for this in Modelmaster’s New Year sale.

 

I did win a  DJH C2 ‘Klondike’ (unmade) on eBay just before Christmas, so at some stage in the distant future I might be able to recreate the Plant Centenarian railtour from 1953 or the suburban trains that 251 and 990 worked in the week leading up to the tour - watch this space!

 

Andy

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8 minutes ago, great northern said:

My freight WTT is for Summer 1956, and shows 266 Down leaving KX at 3.00pm, but I agree that the departure time did vary over the years. From memory, it was 3.20pm in the summer of 58.

Thanks. That sounds about right because I seem to remember stories of it being thrashed by Bill Hoole to keep ahead of the 1600 Talisman. I will have to amend my sequence.

 

Andy

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G'day Folks

 

No. Bill Hoole was running Fast, as usual, and had to stop at Peterborough to detach a wagon with a hotbox, by the time he had done that, the Talisman had overtaken Bill, he went off when given the road and caught the Talisman up, he later complained the the Talisman held him up.

 

manna

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It seems to be the fashion to make new year resolutions for layouts. So, following the example set my Tony Teague amongst others (see https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115550-churminster-stowe-magna-southern-railway/&do=findComment&comment=3783464 - his thread is well worth a look if you haven't already), here are my top three objectives for the year:

 

1. Finish ballasting the track - a bit of a chore, but well overdue and should be easy enough to knock on the head;

2. Replace the station buildings and get the scenery in the station area up to the standard of the rest of the layout (not necessarily finished, but largely presentable); and

3. Install at least 2 more working signals.

 

There will be lots of other minor jobs (e.g. installing the trap points which those who follow Wright Writes will have seen me berated for) and hopefully a few new trains to play with, but if I haven't completed the three points above this year, I will be very disappointed and you will have the right to take me to task!

 

Andy

 

 

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38 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

It seems to be the fashion to make new year resolutions for layouts. So, following the example set my Tony Teague amongst others (see https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115550-churminster-stowe-magna-southern-railway/&do=findComment&comment=3783464 - his thread is well worth a look if you haven't already), here are my top three objectives for the year:

 

1. Finish ballasting the track - a bit of a chore, but well overdue and should be easy enough to knock on the head;

2. Replace the station buildings and get the scenery in the station area up to the standard of the rest of the layout (not necessarily finished, but largely presentable); and

3. Install at least 2 more working signals.

 

There will be lots of other minor jobs (e.g. installing the trap points which those who follow Wright Writes will have seen me berated for) and hopefully a few new trains to play with, but if I haven't completed the three points above this year, I will be very disappointed and you will have the right to take me to task!

 

Andy

 

 

 

Andy

Thanks for the name check - problem with this New Year resolution stuff is sticking to it!

If you look back I didn't do half of what I had planned in 2019, but then I think it is probably good to have some priorities when there is so much to be done!

Happy New Year!

Tony

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1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

It seems to be the fashion to make new year resolutions for layouts. So, following the example set my Tony Teague amongst others (see https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115550-churminster-stowe-magna-southern-railway/&do=findComment&comment=3783464 - his thread is well worth a look if you haven't already), here are my top three objectives for the year:

 

1. Finish ballasting the track - a bit of a chore, but well overdue and should be easy enough to knock on the head;

2. Replace the station buildings and get the scenery in the station area up to the standard of the rest of the layout (not necessarily finished, but largely presentable); and

3. Install at least 2 more working signals.

 

There will be lots of other minor jobs (e.g. installing the trap points which those who follow Wright Writes will have seen me berated for) and hopefully a few new trains to play with, but if I haven't completed the three points above this year, I will be very disappointed and you will have the right to take me to task!

 

Andy

 

 

Interesting you make a reference to Wright Writes. As another sole worker, we need to remember we're doing it all, not having a team of talented folks under us! Mr. Wright, for whom I have nothing but respect and admiration does make this quite clear to his credit. It inevitably means stuff takes us longer, in my case a lot longer, not least as I tend to concentrate on things I'm interested in, rather than those I'm not, such a s signalling. Looking back at your coach output it appears that 2019 was extremely productive, and I'm sure this year will be too!

 

John.

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4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

It seems to be the fashion to make new year resolutions for layouts. So, following the example set my Tony Teague amongst others (see https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115550-churminster-stowe-magna-southern-railway/&do=findComment&comment=3783464 - his thread is well worth a look if you haven't already), here are my top three objectives for the year:

 

1. Finish ballasting the track - a bit of a chore, but well overdue and should be easy enough to knock on the head;

2. Replace the station buildings and get the scenery in the station area up to the standard of the rest of the layout (not necessarily finished, but largely presentable); and

3. Install at least 2 more working signals.

 

There will be lots of other minor jobs (e.g. installing the trap points which those who follow Wright Writes will have seen me berated for) and hopefully a few new trains to play with, but if I haven't completed the three points above this year, I will be very disappointed and you will have the right to take me to task!

 

Andy

 

 

Hi Andy

 

I have a similar list of things that I should achieve this year, or was it last year? I am going to carry on moving from one bodge to another as the mood takes me, I still have seven and half years to my target finish date of my 70 th birthday.

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5 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Andy

Thanks for the name check - problem with this New Year resolution stuff is sticking to it!

If you look back I didn't do half of what I had planned in 2019, but then I think it is probably good to have some priorities when there is so much to be done!

Happy New Year!

Tony

I have deliberately kept the list short so as to make it realistic. One of the reasons I started this thread was to give me an incentive to crack on with the layout, so let’s see if it works!

 

4 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Interesting you make a reference to Wright Writes. As another sole worker, we need to remember we're doing it all, not having a team of talented folks under us! Mr. Wright, for whom I have nothing but respect and admiration does make this quite clear to his credit. It inevitably means stuff takes us longer, in my case a lot longer, not least as I tend to concentrate on things I'm interested in, rather than those I'm not, such a s signalling. Looking back at your coach output it appears that 2019 was extremely productive, and I'm sure this year will be too!

 

John.

Thanks John, my problem is I’m probably happiest building rolling stock, but I need too remember that there’s no point in having lots of stock with nowhere to run it!

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andy

 

I have a similar list of things that I should achieve this year, or was it last year? I am going to carry on moving from one bodge to another as the mood takes me, I still have seven and half years to my target finish date of my 70 th birthday.

7.5 years sounds like a long time. I hope too be well into bodging my next layout by then!

 

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Rather late for the train fix today, but hopefully it will be worth the wait. Here is the up Elizabethan with 60013. Trains don’t get much sexier than this - at least for me. 

 

F8B1C24F-6BF1-45DE-8323-846CDF114856.jpeg.762f18a064c1c792c674f669a468fbe5.jpegFB9592D5-CA02-4FD8-A994-EA7945A6DDA4.jpeg.e22ad5fa20309c9b4772f3a17b0b6515.jpeg

 

This is the formation as it was in 1957 with 10 rather fine Thompson PV carriages and just one mark 1 on the back letting the side down. The Thompsons are all built from Southern Pride sides on Bachmann donors, so it’s a fairly weighty train, but no problem for a standard Hornby A4.

 

Here’s the video.

 

Andy

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

7.5 years sounds like a long time. I hope too be well into bodging my next layout by then!

 

Hi Andy

 

I am in the process of building the layout I have always wanted, a terminus with a long continuous run around the room. I already have it operationally reliable so the next stages are to build the stock, do the scenics and carry on having fun, without rushing things.

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55 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andy

 

I am in the process of building the layout I have always wanted, a terminus with a long continuous run around the room. I already have it operationally reliable so the next stages are to build the stock, do the scenics and carry on having fun, without rushing things.

Clive,

 

I have dropped into the Sheffield Exchange thread from time to time. I love your plan - anything with a flavour of King’s Cross floats my boat, and it offers lots of operational interest. The layout seems to be coming on well which is why I was surprised you said it would take so long to finish. But if that includes time to build lots of rolling stock then I can understand.

 

I’m rather impatient and would like to think that Gresley Jn will be substantially finished in 2-3 years so that I can think about another layout.

 

Andy

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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Clive,

 

I have dropped into the Sheffield Exchange thread from time to time. I love your plan - anything with a flavour of King’s Cross floats my boat, and it offers lots of operational interest. The layout seems to be coming on well which is why I was surprised you said it would take so long to finish. But if that includes time to build lots of rolling stock then I can understand.

 

I’m rather impatient and would like to think that Gresley Jn will be substantially finished in 2-3 years so that I can think about another layout.

 

Andy

Hi Andy

 

I started planning this layout back in 1970 after seeing a layout called Avondale in the Railway Modeller. The Kings Cross element came from visions of building Kings Cross, a dream I gave up on when I had the room to build Exchange. So I have no plans for another layout at the moment.

 

Trouble is I keep thinking about Harlow Town (or a version of) with 25 Kv Mk1 OLE or another ER diesel loco depot, a big one. 

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8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andy

 

I started planning this layout back in 1970 after seeing a layout called Avondale in the Railway Modeller. The Kings Cross element came from visions of building Kings Cross, a dream I gave up on when I had the room to build Exchange. So I have no plans for another layout at the moment.

 

Trouble is I keep thinking about Harlow Town (or a version of) with 25 Kv Mk1 OLE or another ER diesel loco depot, a big one. 

Planning a layout can be a large part of the fun. I have several pipe dreams including an O gauge test bench and a garden railway, but I doubt they will come to pass.

 

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Next up on Gresley Jn we have an inner suburban arrival on the 1454 from Kings Cross with a standard mark 1 5 set (BS-S-S-S-BS). This picture shows it having ran round and ready to depart.

 

9741D3FA-7336-411F-91DF-DFB11FAC5F94.jpeg.588f8dcb3b23cedfa9c7f734f75a7c10.jpeg

 

These Bachmann Mark 1st are a good starting point, but benefit from flush glazing and close coupling as on this pair. The back of the train is still to do.

 

CDFA0F72-54EB-46D5-BB96-886B970D0010.jpeg.c85b82cf1b627bfa011bdd20b20af49a.jpeg

 

Today’s video shows the BRCW type 2 running round its train. You’ll have to be patient with this one as it’s 2.5 mins long but I think it shows off the legomanbiffo sound project very well - one of the best that I have.

 

Andy

 

 

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As discussed a couple of moves ago, The Talisman should follow the Scotch goods quite closely...so here it is. In this case headed by 60020, Guillemot. This is the first train to return from the centre reversible sidings in the fiddle yard, and the only one that you will see a third time as it also forms the up afternoon Talisman.

 

782DCFD2-C1C0-4D6F-B6AD-302B9E96C720.jpeg.955e894c325212501f6843f36e804893.jpeg

 

An the video - a nice short one today to make up for the epic yesterday. This seems a little jerky, bit it wasn’t like that in real life so I’m rather puzzled by what has caused it.

 

 

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With Hornby’s announcement today, I thought we’d have a train with one of the fewThompson Pacific’s which they’re not doing. Here we have A2/1 Duke of Rothesay on an up secondary express, in this case the 0947 Newcastle-King’s Cross which had lots of different formations depending on the day of the week and the time of year. This one doesn’t quite match any of them but given that the vehicles are listed as ‘Newcastle to secure’, I suspect it rarely matched the booked formation anyway. 8A8B0AC1-31EC-4670-88E1-17C4CD3C07DF.jpeg.c631587071bb2eb7130a6548508595a6.jpeg

 

The rake is a mixture of Kirk EV kits, Hornby SKs and an MJT CK, mainly built by yours truly, while the loco is a white metal kit sourced via Tony Wright.

 

Here is the video - I’m afraid that you will notice the Portescap whine on the A2/1.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

With Hornby’s announcement today, I thought we’d have a train with one of the fewThompson Pacific’s which they’re not doing. Here we have A2/1 Duke of Rothesay on an up secondary express, in this case the 0947 Newcastle-King’s Cross which had lots of different formations depending on the day of the week and the time of year. This one doesn’t quite match any of them but given that the vehicles are listed as ‘Newcastle to secure’, I suspect it rarely matched the booked formation anyway. 8A8B0AC1-31EC-4670-88E1-17C4CD3C07DF.jpeg.c631587071bb2eb7130a6548508595a6.jpeg

 

The rake is a mixture of Kirk EV kits, Hornby SKs and an MJT CK, mainly built by yours truly, while the loco is a white metal kit sourced via Tony Wright.

 

Here is the video - I’m afraid that you will notice the Portescap whine on the A2/1.

 

 

I see we are agreed as to the Duke's dirty appearance Andy.

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Today we have the up Flying Scotsman headed by my namesake Deltic, D9008, The Green Howards. I have has to bend my normal timeframe for this train as I wanted to be able to include D9008 in named condition and this didn’t happen until 1963. The formation is the Summer 1963 formation and the carriage workings helpfully give some of the actual carriage numbers allocated to the train which I’ve replicated.

 

4FF2F656-E1DF-4CBA-9CBF-25F32654EF01.jpeg.469ae50596a8784183c0ed65ba204196.jpeg

I’ve also fitted commonwealth bogies to all the Mark 1’s which didn’t have them (and Gresley bogies on the RU). The train still had one Thompson PV in the formation (3rd vehicle) as a throwback to former glories - the FK with ladies retiring room. This is swapped from my Elizabethan formation in the fiddle yard and can lead to derailments and swearing! The winged thistle headboard was slightly later still I think (1965?) but I like it so I rule one applies!

 

I’ve tried panning the video this time so you can appreciate both the headboard and tailboard. I think this works OK, but let me know what you think.

 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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Yesterday I went to visit Gilbert Barnett of this parish and his Peterborough North layout, hence no update on Gresley Jn. Anyway, Gilbert explained the coal workings to me and it seems that a coal train ran each way in the early afternoon when there was a gap in express passenger services. I had previously assumed that they ran overnight and early/ late but not during the day. I don’t yet have an empty coal train, so you will have to make do with a full one and pretend that this ran an hour or two ago on the sequence!

 

02B870D1-009E-43E3-8628-5F7878DBA6CA.jpeg.4c20409108147b07a6b398143486c128.jpeg

 

This shows K3, 61870 on an uploaded coal train. K3s weren’t the normal power by the ‘50s, but they did run from time to time particularly before the influx of WDs and 9Fs. The train has a loaded brick wagon as the first vehicle. These were often included in the formation to improve brake force. There is a good picture of such a train with a K3 in Coster’s ‘Book of the Great Northern 1’ (p185). This train uses the freight loop through Gresley Jn station.

 

The video shows it emerging from the tunnel and taking the slow line.

 

 

Andy

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4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Yesterday I went to visit Gilbert Barnett of this parish and his Peterborough North layout, hence no update on Gresley Jn. Anyway, Gilbert explained the coal workings to me and it seems that a coal train ran each way in the early afternoon when there was a gap in express passenger services. I had previously assumed that they ran overnight and early/ late but not during the day. I don’t yet have an empty coal train, so you will have to make do with a full one and pretend that this ran an hour or two ago on the sequence!

 

02B870D1-009E-43E3-8628-5F7878DBA6CA.jpeg.4c20409108147b07a6b398143486c128.jpeg

 

This shows K3, 61870 on an uploaded coal train. K3s weren’t the normal power by the ‘50s, but they did run from time to time particularly before the influx of WDs and 9Fs. The train has a loaded brick wagon as the first vehicle. These were often included in the formation to improve brake force. There is a good picture of such a train with a K3 in Coster’s ‘Book of the Great Northern 1’ (p185). This train uses the freight loop through Gresley Jn station.

 

The video shows it emerging from the tunnel and taking the slow line.

 

 

Andy

Two loaded and two empties between 1400 and 1500 in the 1956 WTT, Andy. I haven't tried a K3 on minerals yet!

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15 hours ago, great northern said:

Two loaded and two empties between 1400 and 1500 in the 1956 WTT, Andy. I haven't tried a K3 on minerals yet!

 

Well I have only got one loaded rake and while I don’t mind running it more than once, I think it’s better spaced out! Also I don’t have that many mineral engines yet- need at least one more 9F and to fix my DJH WD 2-8-0, so can’t run it too often. 

 

The K3 might not be typical, but they did work (although may be not as late as 1958 which Gilbert’s admirable self discipline ties him to) and I’m rather fond of them. This one is a nice heavy Wills body (acquired from Tony Wright for a fiver) on a Bachmann chassis and pulls very well. As I said yesterday, if you weight a RTR chassis sufficiently it will pull as well as most kit built locos.

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10 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

Well I have only got one loaded rake and while I don’t mind running it more than once, I think it’s better spaced out! Also I don’t have that many mineral engines yet- need at least one more 9F and to fix my DJH WD 2-8-0, so can’t run it too often. 

 

The K3 might not be typical, but they did work and I’m rather fond of them. This one is a nice heavy Wills body (acquired from Tony Wright for a fiver) on a Bachmann chassis and pulls very well. As I said yesterday, if you weight a RTR chassis sufficiently it will pull as well as most kit built locos.

Two rakes do all for me, as you know. The loaded has 30+ wagons now, and the empties 42 and brake. I've individually weathered all of them, and I see no reason to repeat that exercise!

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